To be worried that the Brexiteers might be wrong and an economic disaster is waiting if we leave?

[Girlwithnotattoos]

What if we wake up on Friday out of the EU, probably nothing immediately other than some soul searching by the remainders. But what about in the months to come? What if all the economists and world leaders were right? We could be heading down the swanny big time, companies moving to the EU proper, jobs going left right and centre, deficit increasing because of lost revenues (taxes, vat etc).

I've listened to the fervent Brexiteers who have dismissed everything put to them as propaganda and yet they still haven't come up with a plan to counter the 'what if' scenarios. Am I the only one to be worried that nobody has a plan B if the economy does slow down to tune of 1.4%to 6% as predicted bearing in mind that a reduction of just 0.4% would counteract any saving to be made on what we contribute to the EU?

Those of us that have followed politics for a number of years know full well corbyns views of EU I'm afraid. He voted against anything and everything he could.

Journalist on Andrew Neil. Show was saying that Corbyn is called the secret leave weapon inside the remain camp because of his clear explanations we can't control free movement and the only way to would be for all countries to go up a level economically (in our case - down) to stop draw of people movement .

His nuanced approached is clearly going over your head - but hey that is some on the remain - hear what they want - believe it can be changed. Junker today said make no mistake Cameron got the best we will give.

why do you for one minute imagine human rights laws will be torn up? honestly that is just total scaremongering and demeans your other well argued posts, it really does.

don't presume to know what position I am in regarding disability rights. I have a DC with a chronic condition.

it doesn't follow that the change to the EU that we all know is coming if we stay in will be good either does it. and with 20+ other countries all with an equal say no matter whether they are net contributors or not, we can so, so easily get out voted.

I am not unwilling to face the problems an exit will cause. I am unwilling to stay in a massive money swallowing organisation that cannot pass an audit. It never has in 40+ years and it never will. and nothing is going to change to make this so.

we have given it a fair go and it hasn't. it is dying on its feet and the beginning of the end was the single currency. because then it wasn't about economic prosperity it was about control. that's when it all went tits up and that's when I started really looking at the audit trails and the reports that came out of the EU.

I like this vote from the Washington Post. Sums it up for me

'Countries usually don’t knowingly commit economic suicide, but in Britain, millions seem ready to give it a try. On June 23, the United Kingdom will vote to decide whether to quit the European Union, the 28-nation economic bloc with a population of 508 million and a gross domestic product of almost $17 trillion. Let’s not be coy: Leaving the E.U. would be an act of national insanity.'

Voting Leave because 'you may never get another vote' is up there with the top 20 insane reasons to leave the EU. But if there are literally thousands of experts across hundreds of fields that have said it will be detrimental and you are still not listening then that is fine. Nothing I can say will make any difference.

For those who are yet to make up your minds. Think of whether there really is any realistic chance the leave promises will be achieved when it will not be them delivering them. They have no mandate to deliver. No power. They can not therefore achieve their promises.

All that will happen is the button is pressed to leave the EU and the vast majority of considered experts believe that is not the the best interests of our country or our future generations.

Not vote 'quote'

why do you for one minute imagine human right laws will be torn up?

I wonder this too I have heard a few people say this kind of thing in real life and I am very concerned they think if we are not in the EU we will start too torture people, discriminate against people with disabilities for example.

We won't we don't do those things because we are a civilised country we would still be that same civilised country without the EU surely ??

I wont take lectures on democracy from a country that bans kinder eggs and allows semi automatic weapons to be owned by its citizens and I wont take lectures from them either all the time they have Guantanamo bay open with people denied the basic human right of a trial.

ask yourself, why does the USA want us to stay in the EU? control, that's why. all the time we are in the EU we wont be doing trade with all the other countries that the USA doesn't want us to.

I just don't buy into the special relationship crap that is spouted about Britain and America.

sure, the Washington post is entitled to its opinion. and I am entitled to ignore it.

mummy I wouldn't take lectures on democracy from America either for the same reasons as you

Show me, imagine how many people said that over the Tea Party, " Ooooh don't upset UK we will never survive on our own we need our masters...."

Can you imagine?

Can you imagine what the Kings and Queens of Europe thought of the FR?

why do you for one minute imagine human right laws will be torn up?

Its not rationale thought and some posters hate the Tories so much they simply cant see the wood for the trees. I ask about the human rights of people like this - who Frank Field asks us to VOTE LEAVE for the poor,

It is the poorest in our communities, those whose choices in life are already by far the most restricted, whose standard of living is most adversely affected by the arrival of a record number of newcomers.

There is a school of belief which quite naturally draws upon compassion to justify the opportunities given to millions of people from the EU to start a new life here. But compassion demands that we consider as a priority the impact that so many new arrivals has on our poorest citizens’ chances of securing the ever scarcer necessities in life

^^ Their HR dont matter at the bottom, call them lazy, degenerate them, de humanise then and shit on them basically....trample over them for this bigger ideal...

mummy No one who has been disabled over the last few years could be anything but thankful for the humans rights laws - it has been crystal clear that they've been the only restraining factor and without them it will only get worse.

Mummy and Sparkle ofcourse you are entitled to your opinions.

I really don't think that quote was a lesson in democracy from America - that is stretching it more than a little - I guess that shows the level of passion you have for the debate.........

However, I am of the opinion that a little more moderation in thinking would have given the whole EU debate a lot more kudos

It still stands however that there is no mandate, that the objectives stated have no plans to be met. So we can all have opinions we can process but the facts are this. It is a remain or leave vote.

It is not a vote to achieve all the objectives of the Leave teams - they have no power to do this as many Leave voters on MN have already told me in no uncertain terms. There is no power and there are no plans. How can we agree to unplanned, unthought out, unsubstantiated objectives that have such a huge impact on our country

Britain is not immune to financial crashes in europe or the wider world. Osborne gave the Irish government financial assistance when Ireland's economy bombed. A healthy Irish economy was crucial to UK's financial wellbeing.

Ghost* I understand your point. However the OP is concerned about a potential recession directly related to a Leave vote

The answer or view generally across the majority of economists and market specialist is - Yes it will

*I like this vote from the Washington Post. Sums it up for me

'Countries usually don’t knowingly commit economic suicide, but in Britain, millions seem ready to give it a try. On June 23, the United Kingdom will vote to decide whether to quit the European Union, the 28-nation economic bloc with a population of 508 million and a gross domestic product of almost $17 trillion. Let’s not be coy: Leaving the E.U. would be an act of national insanity.'*

Well in that case you are firmly in the 'remainers talking utter shit camp'

Oh and fwiw I think I will vote remain

Milly Not Neil Woodford again.

My heart I have to say doesn't like uncertainty. But actually this isn't uncertainty - we know there will be huge economic issues. We have predictions from many experts about what will happen.

What we do NOT have is any indication of how the Leave's claims will be substantiated - that is the uncertainty that I fear. How will these objectives increasing personal wealth, and the economy of our country be achieved, especially when have tipped ourselves into a recession?

Not one person can answer that can they?

Basic apologies I really do not understand your point

I wonder this too I have heard a few people say this kind of thing in real life and I am very concerned they think if we are not in the EU we will start too torture people, discriminate against people with disabilities for example.

The Tories cut ESA by £30 a week punishing the most vulnerable people in society. Gove, IDS, Grayling voted for this.

The point is that the campaign has been two utterly ridiculous, embarrassing sides of 'in' and 'out'. No one has properly analysed that both ways have advantages and disadvantages. Phrases like 'economic suicide' from the Americans (who are interested in their interests not ours) are just hysterical nonsense. I honestly can't believe this needs to be explained.

The Tories cut ESA by £30 a week punishing the most vulnerable people in society. Gove, IDS, Grayling voted for this.

But we are in the EU

Basic Thank you for explaining in terms and tone that you claim has been missing from the debate from both sides. I do find a certain irony that your first post did not reflect your argument in your second. But thank you for taking the time

No problem

Cant you acknowledge the whole thing is rather more complex than some mindless American quote?

from the Evening Standard
A company who organised a plane to fly over Trafalgar Square during the Jo Cox memorial bearing a message to Vote Leave has apologised after it sparked disgust among mourners.

Hampshire-based aircraft manufacturer Britten-Norman said crew on board the plane could not have known about the “coincidence of timing” and added it was sorry for causing any offence.

nothing to see here - it was not a deliberate act - so the angst is a bit un--called for

I stated I liked the quote - and I do. I haven't said the whole thing is not more complex. Of course it is if you digest arguments over immigration or the economy and the emotion that has been used in the campaigns.

But strip these out and it is not complex. It is a Remain or Leave vote

And the Leave campaign will offer no leadership accountability or directions after Friday if they win. It will be left to the Government to sort out the mess. And the Government are under no obligation or mandate to achieve or even review the objectives the Leave campaign have said leaving the EU will achieve (even if they are actually achievable which is doubtful)

The general view is we will go into recession and it will take years or decades to resolve

SO in that sense it really isn't complex - at all. We stay as we are or we jump into an unplanned, ill thought out future that we have been led into with politicians who will not be held accountable for their actions

The Remainers are disgusting.

Are they really proposing to ban campaigning over central London the day before a major election?

Absolutely disgraceful.

to further emphasise - in case you are in any doubt
the quote continues
“The timing of our flight was determined by weather, air traffic control and the prior approval of the the Diplomatic Protection Group and required the consent of the Metropolitan Police.

“We are clearly very disappointed that the timing of the service and our flight have overlapped but there was no NOTAM (Notice to Airmen) requesting the avoidance and the coincidence of timing could not have been known by the crew flying the sortie.
“Our sincere apologies to anyone present who has been offended by the overflight. We would also like to take the opportunity to advise that the flight was a private one and was not sanctioned by the official Vote Leave campaign.”
so ignore the 'permanently offended' on facebook and in the 'remain' media