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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Fiancé always decides to snap at me in front of family

197 replies

toomanylols · 19/06/2016 23:56

Hey guys. This is actually really getting me down. I am such a family person and I would do anything for my family. When my family are all together my other half can't resist having a pop at me in front of them. He's not a bad guy, we have a child and another on the way, but he just has no filter whatsoever. If something irritates him, he just says it. Doesn't matter who is in the room. Whereas I would be mortified to do anything of the sort. If he annoys me I would keep shtum and maybe raise it later. It makes everyone so uncomfortable. And it's always about little stuff. Today we went round to have Sunday Dinner at my mams after he had gotten lovely pressies for Father's Day. She cooked us a lovely meal, I asked him did he want Diet Coke, he said yes please, then he said IF YOURE GOING TO ROLL YOUR EYES THEN ILL POUR IT MYSELF. I was stunned. I did nothing of the sort. No one knew where to look. We ate dinner in almost silence. Once we left then I had it out with him. He apologized said he's really tired (eh me too) said he shouldn't have snapped, he thought I rolled my eyes at him. It all sounds so petty but this happens all the time. It's so embarrassing.

OP posts:
NavyAndWhite · 20/06/2016 18:50

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Sausagerollers · 20/06/2016 18:52

I wasn't talking about relationship counselling, I meant individual counselling for his anger issues, sorry if that wasn't clear.

If he is trying to blame his out-bursts on stress/tiredness, then he must recognise he has a problem, and a good partner and father would want to find methods to handle that.

A bad DP wouldn't give a f*ck about it and just continue to take his moods out on his partner/kids....

SuperFlyHigh · 20/06/2016 18:53

Your sister is right. That's my final comment.

Bestdayever85 · 20/06/2016 18:59

Sausage rollers, you are assuming the problem is all one sided. The point of counselling would be to see both sides of the story, look at how both partners feel, so they can understand each other. I don't think individual counselling would be effective at all.

MistressDeeCee · 20/06/2016 19:21

There is no Counsellor who will find it reasonable for a person's partner to make him/her feel small at public/family gatherings. The intent behind actually doing that kind of thing is not pleasant at all. Nor will any Counsellor look unto the absolute enth for reasons why this behavior "may" acceptable under any circumstance

Read mathanxiety's posts. They explain exactly why this sort of behaviour is so insidious.

Very true. People often refute verbal and/or emotional abuse, casually explaining it away as a one-off incident, then if it happens twice oh its "only a couple of times". But its nothing like that. A person who will verbally minimise you and not care about your feelings of humiliation isn't a one-off type of person. You normally will find they certainly won't do it to other people ie friends, work colleagues. Their intent on causing upset is reserved for their partner, doing it in front of immediate family also sends a message to them that his lack of respect extends to them also, as her family. It is all to do with causing mortifying feelings

Nobody would be happy with that. So I cannot see why the OP should be so yes perhaps Counselling would be a good thing, unsure about him being present tho. IME people like this will minimise or justify, then round on you when you get home - or in your case OP, you will pay for it via another embarassing, toe-curling, atmosphere crashing display at your next family gathering.

hownottofuckup · 20/06/2016 20:51

Does he come from a snappy family OP?

AlanPacino · 20/06/2016 21:15

Shouting at you and calling you ignorant in front of your baby after a 12 hour shift is so messed up. He's a manchild.

Homebird8 · 20/06/2016 21:47

I was so absorbed in playing with her and kissing her that I didn't hear him trying to make conversation with me. Next thing he's shouting calling me ignorant. It's just like he loses his temper in 2 seconds

And your DD is picking up that daddy is shouting at her. She isn't old enough to work out what you grownups can't.

Just because he lets you have a lie in sometimes I don't feel the temper at other times is a fair trade. Certainly not for DD.

Bestdayever85 · 20/06/2016 21:48

toomanylols, do you realise people are referring to you as 'OP' and are asking you questions?

mathanxiety · 21/06/2016 06:05

OP (that's you, Toomanylols), you know what? He actually can control his foul temper and his abusive words.

He is using his temper, not losing it.

Has he ever been reprimanded or disciplined for similar behaviour at work?

This sort of stuff happens all the time. It is very hard to explain
It really is hard to explain. It all looks like little things. It is the death by a thousand cuts. But it is death all the same: you will eventually find your spirit being destroyed, all the joy sucked out of life, your relationship with your children tainted.

And am I wrong to be human and show emotion when he treats me like this?
Not one bit wrong, and not at all unreasonable. Somewhere inside, you know he is the problem. But he is chipping away at you by many means, including the text he sent you where he used the word 'normal' to describe his own abnormal behaviour, and his effort to blame it on tiredness or stress or the fact that his life isn't perfect. He is trying to put it in a context and make it seem reasonable to you. If it is reasonable then the implication is that you are unreasonable to complain.

The fact that you are wondering about your own response indicates how much a part of the fabric of your life with him it has become.
Everything that you feel is absolutely normal and reasonable.

I just won't get angry in my mother's house because I have respect.
And because if you got angry in your mother's house you would show him and your family how much it is all affecting you, and thus how small and humiliated it makes you feel, and it is bad enough without facing that ultimate humiliation.

I came home the other night from a 12 hour shift and hadn't seen my baby in 2 days because of the hours I work, I was so absorbed in playing with her and kissing her that I didn't hear him trying to make conversation with me. Next thing he's shouting calling me ignorant.
This is all abuse. It is designed to keep your attention on him at all times.

You will eventually find yourself monitoring the amount of attention you give your baby and toddler in case he is sulking about it. (That bit in his text where he blames his terrible behaviour on tiredness is a warning to you that you are in for a rocky time when you have a baby and a toddler on your hands. You had better be prepared to work overtime to make sure he gets enough rest).

It's just like he loses his temper in 2 seconds. He's never been physical but he has been very intimidating (stomping around, threatened to break the door down once when he was really annoyed)
Again, he is not losing his temper. He is using it.

'He's never been physical' but only because he has you walking on eggshells anyway. The stomping around, threatening to destroy an inanimate object - part of his own home, going from zero to ninety in two minutes: that is all designed to intimidate the same way the back of the hand to the face is.

And he has all the stock excuses lined up should he ever decide the time has come to show you by means of the fist what happens when he feels you have got too uppity. All the weasel words from the text will be repeated if he ever strikes you. Tired, stressed, your facial expression, baby was crying too much, blah blah.

The cycle of abuse.

Hoovering:
datingasociopath.com/2013/06/15/the-cycle-of-abuse-in-a-relationship-with-the-sociopath-or-narcissist/
Does any of this ring a bell?
'3. The Reconciliation
The Sociopath now knows that he is about to lose source of supply, and has to act fast. He starts to seduce you, but you are wary you have been here so many times before. The Sociopath will sell you back yourself, your hopes and your dreams. [Remember the bit in the text where he mentions your baby?] Other people might at this point think that you have taken leave of your senses. ‘You can’t go back for one more time? Those close to you plead.

They do not understand, your heart is hurting. You feel broken. You want this to work. After all you have invested so much. You do not want that to go to waste. Hope… you want hope. You love this person, but you do not love this behaviour and how it makes you feel.

By now the Sociopath is kind and caring. Once again he is mirroring you, and offering you what you want. [This is why you sometimes benefit from the odd kind gesture]. The sociopath makes false empty promises for the future. You want it to be right, you just don’t want to be hurt anymore.'

For 'sociopath' you can substitute abuser, or narcissist or psychopath (or any Cluster B personality disorder). Please don't be startled by the words 'sociopath', psychopath' or 'narcissist' here. Take a look at this: outofthefog.website/

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/hoovering

Hoovering has the effect of making you think you don't have a horrible relationship problem, just a diamond in the rough who needs work on your part to reveal the good man you know is inside. You have caught glimpses of him after all. You know the great husband can be enticed out from behind the rough exterior from time to time. When you get a lie in or a bunch of flowers or when he seems to cheerfully pick up the toddler from nursery it makes you believe your efforts can result in similar reprieves in the future.

In fact he is only being nice because it takes effort to blow up and it would lose its effect if he did it all the time. He also gets to look like superdad picking up DD from nursery. It makes it that much more difficult for you to talk to other parents at the nursery gate about what a horrible time you are having at home.

He is also doing it because he sincerely believes he is Mr NiceGuy, and it makes him feel good about himself when he does the odd nice thing for you. Then when you complain to him about how badly he treats you, he whips out the mental balance book that shows how he is always giving and giving and giving (according to him), and you become in his eyes the world's most ungrateful bitch. For your part, you are required to judge him by his intentions (which are impeccable) and to make allowances for all the ugliness and cruelty. You are required to remember last Sunday fortnight's lie in. For his part, Sunday morning's nice Father's Day gifts are out of sight and out of mind.

Important - Don't do counselling with him.
Working together is not the next step.

the next step is - call Women's Aid and ask for a referral to a counsellor or therapist, or if your employer offers a referral service, ask them. Don't faff around. Ask for counselling that is explicitly aimed at helping victims of emotional/psychological abuse.

Inkanta · 21/06/2016 06:33

'It all looks like little things. It is the death by a thousand cuts. But it is death all the same: you will eventually find your spirit being destroyed, all the joy sucked out of life, your relationship with your children tainted.'

Mathanxiety - you are on it as usual. Great advice.

Bestdayever85 · 21/06/2016 08:23

Mathanxiety, that might be great advice if OP is truly psychologically scarred, but I feel you have read way too much into very little info. She is pregnant, tired and stressed out by her Fiancée's foul temper. To even suggest he is a Sociopath is jumping the gun! You said don't be scared by words like Sociopath. Really? It seems you are the Narcissistic one by planting the seed then getting a kick out of others praise because you are able to copy and paste. You simply cannot make such judgements on such little info. You will only succeed in scaring the poor girl, when all she probably needs is to have a stern chat with her Fiancé and lay down some ground rules going forward. Are you a professional Psychologist? I'm not, just a mum looking out for other mums well being, not trying to scare them witless, just to fulfil my own ego.

AlanPacino · 21/06/2016 21:02

Op is not a girl. Op has said he puts her down in front of her family and shouted at her calling her ignorant when she made a fuss of her toddler after she did a 12 hour shift. She has spoken to him, at length, he doesn't feel there is a problem to address. He thinks it's okay to behave like that. It suits him.

Rainbunny · 21/06/2016 22:19

The thing is OP, going from what you've written I don't personally consider him to be abusive (just my opinion) but his behaviour does demonstrate an absence of respect for you, contempt even really. The defense that he was tired only goes so far, and if he does this regularly then I don't believe it's a good excuse. Do you think he snaps at his colleagues or his bosses at work when he's tired? Of course not, he likely controls his temper perfectly well in that environment. Treating you like this is not a result of his being on a relaxed family environment where we can express ourselves honestly, I think it's a passive-aggressive habit he has formed where perhaps there haven't been any repercussions. On a certain level he must get a bit of mental or emotional satisfaction from doing this in front of your family - acting in out . The only way I can think to curb this is to deal with it in the moment, remain calm but call him out on what he's said right there in front of your parents.

Is this the only area in your relationship where he behaves like this to you?

Theladyloriana · 21/06/2016 22:49

Op - you have my sympathy. I think you need to look to your own behavior too but only for your life long happiness, not because I think you are causing the abuse. Your relationship does sound abusive to me. Try posting in relationships with a new user name about it, people are very helpful. Also read the bamcroft lundy types of abusers. Being a lone parent to two kids in a peaceful home, certainly has its positives Smile

mathanxiety · 22/06/2016 00:30

Best - the advice goes for common or garden abusers too, not necessarily full blown sociopaths, etc.

But everyone who abuses someone else in the way Toomanylols has described has traits in common with sociopaths, narcissists, and psychopaths.

If you live with abuse you are guaranteed to be psychologically scarred. You are not necessarily going to turn into a shadow of your former self, but you will never be the same person after a brush with an abuser because part of the abuse involves reprogramming of the victim to make her accept the abuse. The effects of abuse are very well documented. You don't have to be a psychiatrist or mental health professional to understand how they come about.

As for this:
"It seems you are the Narcissistic one by planting the seed then getting a kick out of others praise because you are able to copy and paste..... trying to scare them witless, just to fulfil my own ego."
My response is I feel you have read way too much into very little info

Italiangreyhound · 22/06/2016 02:49

toomanylols I've just caught up, lots going on. How are you feeling now?

Thanks
blitheringbuzzards1234 · 22/06/2016 08:42

We all get tired OP, most of us try to be reasonable and not take it out on other people. Try telling him this in front of others whenever he throws his weight around. Why not embarrass him in company telling him he's behaving like an arse? Try being as confrontational as he is -I bet he won't like the taste of his own medicine.

Trills · 22/06/2016 09:14

when we're on our own we could fight for days over it. Which is what we do.

Dump him. He is not nice.

Work on your own behaviour before you find someone new.

Do not bring up your children in a world where you "fight for days" over anything.

Fighting is not OK if you "give as god as you get".

Bestdayever85 · 22/06/2016 09:24

Yes toomanylols how are you feeling now? Have you spoken to you Fiancé?

Theladyloriana · 22/06/2016 10:37

Just read mathsanxiety's post. Had to RE post because it was too good to just be down once. Thank you for taking the time to hit the nail on the head. Op, I hope you're OK. A lot of us have been where you are and mumsnet has changed our lives. Well my life has changed because of mumsnet- I started with a post like yours about 5 years ago and I kept on posting. I've left now and it's hard but I'm mainly at peace, enjoying my job and my children.

^OP (that's you, Toomanylols), you know what? He actually can control his foul temper and his abusive words.

He is using his temper, not losing it.

Has he ever been reprimanded or disciplined for similar behaviour at work?

This sort of stuff happens all the time. It is very hard to explain
It really is hard to explain. It all looks like little things. It is the death by a thousand cuts. But it is death all the same: you will eventually find your spirit being destroyed, all the joy sucked out of life, your relationship with your children tainted.

And am I wrong to be human and show emotion when he treats me like this?
Not one bit wrong, and not at all unreasonable. Somewhere inside, you know he is the problem. But he is chipping away at you by many means, including the text he sent you where he used the word 'normal' to describe his own abnormal behaviour, and his effort to blame it on tiredness or stress or the fact that his life isn't perfect. He is trying to put it in a context and make it seem reasonable to you. If it is reasonable then the implication is that you are unreasonable to complain.

The fact that you are wondering about your own response indicates how much a part of the fabric of your life with him it has become.
Everything that you feel is absolutely normal and reasonable.

I just won't get angry in my mother's house because I have respect.
And because if you got angry in your mother's house you would show him and your family how much it is all affecting you, and thus how small and humiliated it makes you feel, and it is bad enough without facing that ultimate humiliation.

I came home the other night from a 12 hour shift and hadn't seen my baby in 2 days because of the hours I work, I was so absorbed in playing with her and kissing her that I didn't hear him trying to make conversation with me. Next thing he's shouting calling me ignorant.
This is all abuse. It is designed to keep your attention on him at all times.

You will eventually find yourself monitoring the amount of attention you give your baby and toddler in case he is sulking about it. (That bit in his text where he blames his terrible behaviour on tiredness is a warning to you that you are in for a rocky time when you have a baby and a toddler on your hands. You had better be prepared to work overtime to make sure he gets enough rest).

It's just like he loses his temper in 2 seconds. He's never been physical but he has been very intimidating (stomping around, threatened to break the door down once when he was really annoyed)
Again, he is not losing his temper. He is using it.

'He's never been physical' but only because he has you walking on eggshells anyway. The stomping around, threatening to destroy an inanimate object - part of his own home, going from zero to ninety in two minutes: that is all designed to intimidate the same way the back of the hand to the face is.

And he has all the stock excuses lined up should he ever decide the time has come to show you by means of the fist what happens when he feels you have got too uppity. All the weasel words from the text will be repeated if he ever strikes you. Tired, stressed, your facial expression, baby was crying too much, blah blah.

The cycle of abuse.

Hoovering:
datingasociopath.com/2013/06/15/the-cycle-of-abuse-in-a-relationship-with-the-sociopath-or-narcissist/
Does any of this ring a bell?
'3. The Reconciliation
The Sociopath now knows that he is about to lose source of supply, and has to act fast. He starts to seduce you, but you are wary you have been here so many times before. The Sociopath will sell you back yourself, your hopes and your dreams. [Remember the bit in the text where he mentions your baby?] Other people might at this point think that you have taken leave of your senses. ‘You can’t go back for one more time? Those close to you plead.

They do not understand, your heart is hurting. You feel broken. You want this to work. After all you have invested so much. You do not want that to go to waste. Hope… you want hope. You love this person, but you do not love this behaviour and how it makes you feel.

By now the Sociopath is kind and caring. Once again he is mirroring you, and offering you what you want. [This is why you sometimes benefit from the odd kind gesture]. The sociopath makes false empty promises for the future. You want it to be right, you just don’t want to be hurt anymore.'

For 'sociopath' you can substitute abuser, or narcissist or psychopath (or any Cluster B personality disorder). Please don't be startled by the words 'sociopath', psychopath' or 'narcissist' here. Take a look at this: outofthefog.website/

outofthefog.website/top-100-trait-blog/2015/11/4/hoovering

Hoovering has the effect of making you think you don't have a horrible relationship problem, just a diamond in the rough who needs work on your part to reveal the good man you know is inside. You have caught glimpses of him after all. You know the great husband can be enticed out from behind the rough exterior from time to time. When you get a lie in or a bunch of flowers or when he seems to cheerfully pick up the toddler from nursery it makes you believe your efforts can result in similar reprieves in the future.

In fact he is only being nice because it takes effort to blow up and it would lose its effect if he did it all the time. He also gets to look like superdad picking up DD from nursery. It makes it that much more difficult for you to talk to other parents at the nursery gate about what a horrible time you are having at home.

He is also doing it because he sincerely believes he is Mr NiceGuy, and it makes him feel good about himself when he does the odd nice thing for you. Then when you complain to him about how badly he treats you, he whips out the mental balance book that shows how he is always giving and giving and giving (according to him), and you become in his eyes the world's most ungrateful bitch. For your part, you are required to judge him by his intentions (which are impeccable) and to make allowances for all the ugliness and cruelty. You are required to remember last Sunday fortnight's lie in. For his part, Sunday morning's nice Father's Day gifts are out of sight and out of mind.

Important - Don't do counselling with him.
Working together is not the next step.

the next step is - call Women's Aid and ask for a referral to a counsellor or therapist, or if your employer offers a referral service, ask them. Don't faff around. Ask for counselling that is explicitly aimed at helping victims of emotional/psychological abuse.

^

Cornishclio · 22/06/2016 11:21

I can see how your OHs comments can make you feel like you are walking on egg shells and certainly I don't think he should take his tiredness out on you. It is not fair and not nice and to be honest whether you are on your own or among family or friends if he is being snappy and nasty it is best to address it immediately. If he comments about you rolling your eyes when fixing him a drink and you did not then say so and tell him to fix his own or apologise. Whether you respond or not in a family situation like that there will be an atmosphere but he caused it in the first place so will look like an idiot.

Same goes for throwing a strop when you are paying attention to your baby and not him. Point out he is an adult and can wait for attention, it is not going to kill him to wait 5 minutes for you to say hello to your child. I would certainly nip this in a bud before it becomes a pattern for him as eventually he may do it with your kids too which can be really harmful. If you are not married yet maybe counselling might be in order?

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