Aibu to think suffers of secondary infertility don't get enough understanding and support

[Darrelrivers]

So DH and I have been trying for a 2nd since our DS was one (2years ago) my desire to have a 2nd is no less than my desire to have my first. But people have so little sympathy and support for secondary infertility despite it apparently being more common than not being able to have another child. The NHS won't help (I've been told our trust won't even carry out a lot of tests as that might be seen to be helping us conceive), people think you should be grateful if you have one (which of course I am but doesn't stop the overwhelming desire for another). Adding to the pressure of infertility is my DS constantly asking for a baby, fertility drugs causing hormonal outbursts whilst trying to look after a 3year old who doesn't understand. Forced into child related activities constantly with no breaks from siblings/pregnancy. Even adoption is much harder as you can't have siblings, very restrained by age and most of all have to think about impact a traumatised child would have on DS. Aibu to think people should be much more aware of secondary infertility and not constantly asking when you're having another because having just the one is so cruel.

For when people tactlessly ask if you're having a second, I found the truth worked well. I just said we'd spent a very long time trying to get our first and I'd had a miscarriage during that time, so while we'd love another we're delighted to have one. People were universally sympathetic after that and I have never had a comment about it being unfair to only have one. As a bonus, now I actually am pregnant again people know a bit of the history and are delighted for us.

Secondary infertility is really shit. Made all the worse by the "at least you have one" brigade who then not only don't get it but remove your right to grieve about it.

Im currently grieving never having another baby. When I was with ex-H there was always a small chance of a miracle even supposing I didn't miscarry like my much wanted and tried for 2nd pregnancy. Im now single at 36 and ANY chance of another baby has gone and its fucking horrid to have to come to terms with.

Comparisons are completely unhelpful. Everyone should be able to grieve for fertility problems whether primary, secondary or anything else

I'm staggered by some of the insensitive posts on here. It's quite clear that you're right OP - people just don't understand the pain of secondary infertility.

I got PG with my first by accident. I never really wanted a child but I didn't want a termination either. I didn't enjoy being pregnant as the whole thing was overwhelming.

Ten years later I desperately want another - to actually be able to enjoy the pregnancy and baby years as well as giving them a sibling. 14 months of trying and nothing. It's no less painful wanting a second and not managing it than wanting a first and not getting there either.

Particularly when you see accidents happening to people in their late 30s, or PG smokers/drinkers, or people with crap diets, when your whole life revolves around TTC and doing everything right and you get precisely nowhere when everyone around you seems to manage it so easily.

It's horrible

Ghost really sorry about your loss especially after everything you have gone through. I know what you meAn about one of each milestone. When just assumed we another I used to think next time I'll do this different, or I'll know about that next time! I grieve about the chance to put that into practice😞. Mummybex I guess it's point proved re insensitivity after some peoples comments empathy doesn't seem to feature in some people's skill sets.

I have not experienced infertility, primary or otherwise but have nothing but sympathy for those who have. Op wasn't setting out a competition over which type of infertility is more painful. She was saying how painful she personally finds it to long for another child and for it to not happen.

I would never ask someone about their plans for a child and nor would I remind them to be grateful for what they have. Surely that is just saying "you cannot be sad because it could be worse" and what use is that to someone in pain?

What gets me is why anyone asks 'when are you having another?' Type questions. How can so many seemingly nice people not get the world of pain they might be causing? I think asking such personal questions is just plain rude but so many people seem to think it's just small talk. I have one through choice so although the question isn't painful for me it pisses me off because for all they know it might be.

(I never worry having one child is cruel; it's taken me years of therapy to deal with issues relating to my siblings!).

nor would I remind them to be grateful for what they have. Surely that is just saying "you cannot be sad because it could be worse" and what use is that to someone in pain?

Hear hear. Why posters have felt the need to come on this thread and compare it to primary infertility is beyond me.

Oh OP it is a lonely place to be and some of the responses in here are perfect examples of what makes it so painful. Some people just cannot stop themselves from talking utter crap.

You are absolutely entitled to your feelings of sadness and loss, you have no obligation to feel any more grateful for what you have than anyone else (utterly shit and dismissive response), and nor do you have to give a tinker's cuss what anyone else thinks your priorities should be.

Sadly there is a great deal of ignorance, insensitivity, and really just mean and judgemental nonsense being spouted on this thread.

However, there are others who can understand your sadness and I hope they are providing some comfort.

Mary
I paid for testing privately. It was only £350 (over 10 years ago though).

Mine included some fertility testing as well so perhaps explains the difference. In any case, the NHS weren't willing to pay it until I had three miscarriages not including ectopics, even though my mother also had recurrent miscarriage. Not even the inherited risk factors like chromosomal abnormalities. When they're that skint, I'm not surprised they turn down people for testing who already have a child.

OP, addressing the only child thing: I'm an only child. I would describe my childhood as idyllic :) My parents facilitated a great social life for me, and i never for one moment felt like i was missing out on anything. One example (to get down to nitty-gritty details, which might help) from quite a young age, i was aware of how friends with siblings always seemed to have half of their stuff lost, broken or being taken off them by their brothers and sisters and it was a bit of a pain trying to play with it properly. I had friends over to play all the time - i had lots of toys and it was lovely to share them - but you know what? I was always glad at the end of the day to have my stuff back to myself and have the whole set of x,y, z to play with whenever i liked.

I've known a lot of adults who have dreadful relationships with their siblings. One of my oldest friends feels her young life was practically ruined by her older brother and is only now, in her 40s, getting to grips with her past. My XMIL used to bitterly row with her sister and once they got to their 40s they went completely non contact.

OP, i know it's swings and roundabouts, and that there's much more to this than simply wanting to give a sibling to your DS, but it does sound as if this is a big part of it for you. Please take heart from the truth of the matter which is that every family is different, there's no such thing as the 'One Blissful Perfect Upbringing' and the happiness of your DS does not hinge upon having a sibling at all.

Worrying about the worst happening and being left with no children is one of those sort of intrusive nightmare thoughts which we all have and it's shit.

My perspective of all this comes from being an only myself as i've said, and with both my parents being only children too (and perfectly ok with it). I went on to have 3 DCs very close in age when i was in my 20s. There are definitely good and bad points about that for the 3 of them when i compare their childhoods to mine. Now i've had a fourth with my second husband (took four years to conceive - so take heart there too on the ttc front) and fourth DD is being raised very much like an only, as the gap is so big between her and her sisters. I'm not worried about her, because i've been there and i loved my childhood, everyone has their own story in the end.

Sorry for the garbled post. Stream of thought in a rush

(Mine included some fertility testing as well so perhaps explains the difference. In any case, the NHS weren't willing to pay it until I had three miscarriages not including ectopics, even though my mother also had recurrent miscarriage. Not even the inherited risk factors like chromosomal abnormalities. When they're that skint, I'm not surprised they turn down people for testing who already have a child.(

I disagree. They should pay for at least some of them after two as they are not all that expensive and they can effect general health and future pregnancies too e.g. miscarriages can be caused by blood clotting disorders.

Laiste thanks very much for your post. In many ways I think our DS is very suited to being an only. He is one of the most sociable children I know and makes friends so easily. He also loves his own company and is great at playing on his own too. All these comments (ignoring the get a grip comments from those who have an empathy deficit, and about whom this post was written) have definately helped so thank you to everyone who has been supportive sometimes you just need a bit of a virtual hug

What do you disagree with? That that happened to me? I'm not lying, and it was in line with the guidelines 6 years ago when I had recurrent miscarriage testing.
You think it's not right, not fair? I agree, but that's my entire point - if they're not willing to spend the money on someone like me, that tells you something about how highly rationed testing and treatment in this area are. I'd happily support more spending on the NHS, I've voted Labour my entire life, one of my favourite things about now living in Germany is that they have a properly funded public health service. But the NHS is cheap, it is underfunded, and in any case any health service has a finite amount of money so there are always decisions to be made about where you draw the line and deny treatment. If your treatment's not funded on the NHS, IMO you need to think about two things:

1. What other needs are not being met by the NHS? Is my need greater than all of them? If so, then you're being treated unfairly. If not, you're just a victim of an underfunded service.
2. If the NHS doesn't fund my treatment, must I believe that I don't deserve treatment? NO! This is the thing I hate the most about the NHS - there are people in there, and supporters who believe that if the NHS won't pay for it, you don't need it and you don't deserve it. This is such bullshit. The NHS is struggling under an ageing population and massive and expensive advances in medicine. When it was founded, it could be all things to all people. It clearly can't now, but that shouldn't be taken either as a reflection on the service or on the people who end up going private.

What do you disagree with? That that happened to me? I'm not lying, and it was in line with the guidelines 6 years ago when I had recurrent miscarriage testing.

I am not commenting on what did or didn't happen to you. I am commenting on what should happen. In the case of miscarriages, I disagree that due to "lack of resources" they should only do testing after three miscarriages. I disagree that with infertility, tests should be reserved for primary only. Some tests are relatively inexpensive and conditions that they would test for effect general health.

So, do you agree that the reason they don't test before three miscarriages is to save money, or do you think it's for another reason? And if it's to save money - what would you give up in order to fund the extra testing?

So, do you agree that the reason they don't test before three miscarriages is to save money, or do you think it's for another reason? And if it's to save money - what would you give up in order to fund the extra testing?

You could apply that argument to every treatment though couldn't you? I think that they should give more thought to when individual tests might be appropriate rather than lumping them all together and deciding that all should be done in this situation but none in another. For example, if a test is relatively inexpensive, the condition may effect general health and the condition is treatable, then that test should have priority over more expensive tests which tests for less common conditions.

I think they do apply that reasoning to every treatment - certainly once I was diagnosed with a chromosomal abnormality, the decision not to fund IVF with PGD was taken on the basis of a cost/benefit analysis.

I daresay they could be slightly cleverer about which tests to order when, but it doesn't change the overall principle that you can't fund everything and choices have to be made.

I absolutely think that you could apply that awful argument for any disease / issue. These sort of moralistic arguments about who 'deserves' treatment or not are just a result of the horrible underfunding the NHS is having to deal with. What we are then left with is lots of people trying to compete for limited resources. And then they become competitive and sometimes very cruel eg 'what would you cut in order to have proper infertility and miscarriage treatment and prevention in the NHS'?

Well I wouldn't cut anything. I believe the NHS should be funded in a proper way so that a basic quality of healthcare should be available to all. I am not talking about the most out there treatments, but testing after 2 miscarriages is not excessive or a luxury, it should be considered a right.

What I would cut? Perhaps increase corporation tax as one thing, which is embarrassingly low in this country? Perhaps increase higher tax rate?

In answer to your question OP, I think you're right. I have 2 friends who have 1 child each, both now teenagers and not being able able to have more children is a source of enormous sadness for them.
My DH and I weren't able to have any children so I understand that desperate longing and sadness. Infertility is basically hell and being told be grateful with what you have doesn't help.
I'm now blessed with 2 children, though adoption and my family is complete. I feel quite guilty sometimes with my friends and their singletons. I also have friends who have no children. It's so hard for them.
Baby dust to you OP.

I think they do apply that reasoning to every treatment - certainly once I was diagnosed with a chromosomal abnormality, the decision not to fund IVF with PGD was taken on the basis of a cost/benefit analysis

They do apply it to treatments but not to the tests, as far as I know. If they at least started testing for problems people might not feel so ignored and alone (that is how I felt anyway).

You can't fund everything and choices have to be made but that doesn't mean the current choices regarding spending are correct!

Op your right people just don't get it. And this thread says it all. People try to compare to primary but it is different with a different set of issues and pain to face and another little person to consider.

Even the silly things baby stuff you plan to use again cluttering every cupboard. At what point do you decide it isn't going to happen and clear out? At that point do you start taking precautions???
Your "ideal" 2 year gap growing every month.
Do you turn the other room into a play room but then you might need it for another child?

Those are all things that have gone through my head in 4 years TTC baby 2. I have managed to conceive but my gap will be 6 years, how are we going to cope with 2 kids at different staged of childhood?

As for anyone who even suggests "relax" ffs. Do you not think people are relaxed at the start of the journey. Its like saying to an asthmatic "relax and you won't need your inhaler" sorry I just needed that rant the most insensitive thing to be said to me.

Bear I yes the baby stuff thing is a nightmare isn't it (luckily have a bit of a get out and handed it to sister who is about to have first baby any day so it's gone but still accessible!). Congratulations on your news. I'm sure the gap will work out great (you'll have a very enthusiastic little helper I'm sure). I've had the just relax thing (usually followed by a story of a friend of a friend who was trying for 84 years to get pregnant then gave up and immediately got pregnant with Quads) because that so helps😄

Just wait until all the baby stuff comes back to you and your still trying. It just gets to you.

Other things that get to you are double buggies. I completely understand buggies get to ladies with primary but double buggies hurt the same way.

And the helpful stories are wonderful. Ive no doubt mine 4 years TTC will be relayed at some point missing out the lesser things we have tried & ivf.,

Some harsh posts here. I fail to understand people who can be so unfeeling towards someone's pain.

for you, OP.