Aibu to think suffers of secondary infertility don't get enough understanding and support

[Darrelrivers]

So DH and I have been trying for a 2nd since our DS was one (2years ago) my desire to have a 2nd is no less than my desire to have my first. But people have so little sympathy and support for secondary infertility despite it apparently being more common than not being able to have another child. The NHS won't help (I've been told our trust won't even carry out a lot of tests as that might be seen to be helping us conceive), people think you should be grateful if you have one (which of course I am but doesn't stop the overwhelming desire for another). Adding to the pressure of infertility is my DS constantly asking for a baby, fertility drugs causing hormonal outbursts whilst trying to look after a 3year old who doesn't understand. Forced into child related activities constantly with no breaks from siblings/pregnancy. Even adoption is much harder as you can't have siblings, very restrained by age and most of all have to think about impact a traumatised child would have on DS. Aibu to think people should be much more aware of secondary infertility and not constantly asking when you're having another because having just the one is so cruel.

But Mary the testing is expensive as well. I don't know if you had testing for your recurrent MC, I did, it was about £1000, I can't imagine testing for fertility problems is cheaper (especially if you have to have a procedure such as an HSG).

Just5mins I have read the current BESH thread, can't see anything similar to this one though? And that is clearly marked out as a place for women experiencing infertility to rant and be as bitter as they want to be. There are certainly women experiencing secondary infertility on it too.

I don't think the cost of a test done privately is the same as the cost to the NHS of doing the test.

I have one child aged 5 (suffered primary infertility). I went through years of trying to have a second, spent thousands. Spoke to a friend who is a part time counseller. She asked me to list all of the reasons I wanted a second. I said the following:

1. My DD wants a sibling because her friends have one.
2. People (women normally practical strangers) have said it's cruel to only have one.
3. People say only children grow up to be selfish.
4. People ask how DD will cope without siblings when we are old.
5. I think it will be easier on me if she has someone else to play with so DH and I aren't her main source of entertainment on holiday.
6. What if something bad happens to her, I'll end up with no kids?
7. It would be interesting to see what another child would look like.
8. DH supports having another but to be honest isn't that fussed.

She said that none of my answers were about me or DH really wanting another child. They were either based on societies expectations, what a small child says they want or fear. I realised she was right.

DD is a happy child, we spend quality time with her, we have money to spend on her, she has lots of friends, we have flexibility, people are more willing to babysit one so DH and I can go on date nights. She doesn't have to worry about looking after DH and I on her own when we are sick we have the money for care ( I don't want her o spend years wiping my arse, I want her to have a happy life) and if got really bad the plan is to go to Dignitas! In any case I'm expecting she'll have good friends and maybe a relationship as support.

Maybe it's because I'm a further down the line than you but I can see the positives in having one. When people ask me stupid questions I just say I don't want another. I don't care if they think I'm a selfish career woman. Sometimes I think some of them are secretly jealous anyway as eventually you hear stuff about how much harder it was going from one to two than zero to one.

Primary infertility was traumatic to the point where I think I felt suicidal. Secondary has been different but also pretty traumatic. I'm coming out the other side now and its okay.

Also don't forget that not all siblings get on. I can guarantee that my 'D'B will be nowhere to be seen if my parents get ill. He'll be right there when it's time to inherit money though that much I know.

I suffer from secondary infertility and my local NHS trust have been fab. I got given clomid for baby #2 and then again for baby #3 but she was still born so they don't recurrent MC tests and are starting me on clomid again next month. I don't know if it varies by location or maybe you just got a very miserable consultant. Sounds like a rubbish situation can you not ask to see someone else

Capricorn, thanks for your post its prob more helpful than you realise (I'm in tears) I could have written that list. Number 6 is the big one for me (unfortunately I've known several people who have lost children). Practically I can see everything you're saying (and have told myself the same many times). Luckily DS is Mr sociable and always finds friends within 5min of going somewhere. I know in the end it will be ok and generally I'm quite thick skinned. I think what gets me most is the lack of understanding that is out there inc amongst professionals and other parents about how hard secondary infertility is and the view you should just suck it up (as quite a few posts on here have illustrated all too well)

I personally see a difference between those struggling to conceive a second who didn't have an issue with the first, with those who did. Those who did seem to accept it more - probably because they feel a lot luckier to even have had the first.

I agree. I have ovarian endometriosis and struggled for years of TTC, a miscarriage and repeated chemical pregnancies before having 3yo DS. And now I'm unlikely to ever have another child. That does make me sad, I would love nothing more than 2 more children and I definitely feel pain when friends announce their second or third pregnancy. I'll always carry the sadness of never having another child (unless by some miracle I have one), of my son never having a sibling, of his children not having cousins, etc. However that pain and the way I suffered through primary infertility is like comparing a broken leg to become quadriplegic.

Because whether you have 1 child or 10, you are still a mother. If you have none, you aren't. Having a child is a massive change in your identity. Your 'name' becomes mummy. Someone in the world automatically thinks of you when they are hurt or frightened. You get to be Santa! There is much in life I'll miss out on by never having more children but if I'd never had my son, I'd never have even become a mum. And maybe unless you have faced down the likelihood of never being a parent, if you don't have friends from your fertility support groups who are still struggling to conceive a first or who have given up. If you never experienced that type of life destroying pain, you just can't ever understand how different the longing for a second child is from the longing to be a parent at all.

I think that some of the acceptance comes from already knowing about and understanding your fertility problems maybe? For me a significant part of getting my head around our secondary infertility has been trying to understand why we can't conceive now when we could before. Again I reiterate that DS is the light of my life and I know how lucky we are to have him.

The reasons for us wanting another are not too do with social reasons - we want a bigger family ourselves. We are both close to our siblings and really value them and we want that for DS. I would like four children - I am knocking on 40 so coming to terms with the fact that it probably won't happen. I am sad about that and I'm allowed to be, doesn't mean I don't value what I have.

Just5mins I have read the current BESH thread, can't see anything similar to this one though? And that is clearly marked out as a place for women experiencing infertility to rant and be as bitter as they want to be. There are certainly women experiencing secondary infertility on it too.

Fair comment up to a point, but singling out particular threads to 'rant bitterly' about seemed a bit off to me.

(Apple BESH is a support clique/thread for people having long term trouble conceiving. Recently moved from the conception board to the infertility board. They're quite gloves off in their 'ranting')

I think that some of the acceptance comes from already knowing about and understanding your fertility problems maybe? For me a significant part of getting my head around our secondary infertility has been trying to understand why we can't conceive now when we could before. Again I reiterate that DS is the light of my lif

That's a really good point. Just the experience of part of your body "not working properly" is really disturbing in its own right. And sometimes in the case of conception difficulties the diagnosis is just 'unexplained infertility' which must be really difficult to lay to rest or process.

It's shit OP. I understand. This thread has made me tear up too.

hellotrees I think you might have something there. My/our secondary infertility is unexplained. Meaning that even although we're no longer actively trying, that every month I still wonder if it might happen. Of course it doesn't. And so even though I'm trying to accept it, the pain and disappointment never truly goes away.

Darrylrivers. Of course the possibility is always there. I have felt the fear many times. It's terrible. I've even heard of people losing two siblings in one go as the siblings have been together when something happened. Or the parent has lost their 'favourite child' and the surviving child feels guilty for living. However, statistically children are more likely to outlive their parents in the western world.

I guess every parent fears losing a child no matter how many they have. Fear is the emotion nobody tells you about when expecting a child. Just try and realise that it's more likely that your child will live to adulthood than not.

Terror

Thank you Just5

I think that some of the acceptance comes from already knowing about and understanding your fertility problems maybe?

To some extent. What made the secondary fertility very hard on me is that every period I have makes me less fertile. So once my periods came back I had as good a chance of anyone to get pregnant. But with each passing month, my odds decrease. I've now had my periods back for 3 years, so my fertility has declined significantly since then. I'm still breastfeeding, so I do have some hope that the breastfeeding hormones have prevented the endo from taking hold again, as my periods are still light and more uncomfortable than painful. But realistically I won't have another child and I have had to make myself accept that. It doesn't mean I'm not really, really sad about it but I make sure that that sadness is a small bubble wrapped up in my unbelievable joy at both the amazing kids that my son is and being the mother he made me.

I do admit that I feel a lot better about my situation when I look at my friends multi-kid families and see how often the siblings beat the ever-living-snot out of each other. It's actually pretty horrifying. ;)

Yes defo 'unexplained infertility' is cruel. If we knew what was wrong we could've tried to fix that but we always wondered if 'this month would be the month'.

OP, you've had a mixed bag of responses here. Try searching for the thread 'Still trying to conceive number 2...' for a really supportive group going through exactly what you are.

Losing dd is one of my greatest fears, but I'm not sure if it's any greater for me than for parents of multiple children. I remember reading a thread on here some years ago, and a bereaved parent pointed out that losing a child is no less painful just because you happen to have "a spare". It shocked me a bit at the time, but it really helped me to put that particular fear into perspective. Losing a child would be devastating for any parent. And sadly, having more than one child doesn't guarantee anything anyway - a colleague of mine lost both of her sons within a couple of years of each other.

But Mary the testing is expensive as well. I don't know if you had testing for your recurrent MC, I did, it was about £1000, I can't imagine testing for fertility problems is cheaper (especially if you have to have a procedure such as an HSG).

I paid for testing privately. It was only £350 (over 10 years ago though). Most of the cost was genetic testing and it would have been cheaper on the NHS.

Having read the OP properly YANBU.

Read carefully. The OP is not saying secondary infertility is as bad as primary infertility.

She's not even saying that the NHS ought to fund IVF for secondary infertility.

She's just saying that secondary infertility sucks (for reasons including the fact the NHS won't help) and people should be more considerate before they say insensitive things like "when are you having the next one" or "it's cruel to just have one".

She is clearly NBU. Nobody should comment on anyone else's TTC plans, you never know what the situation might be.

I hear you and it sucks. I hope that it happens for you soon.

I second looking for the secondary infertility thread. Hugs, OP, it's rubbish and difficult.

Just5
Your post about my post makes it sound like I was being negative about the BESH group, I was being the opposite actually. You brought them up!

I'm on the fence with this. I conceived my first child unplanned, but due to health problems by the time it came to my second child I was advised not to for health reasons so whilst technically not infertile I was kind of in the same boat.

I was desperate for a second child and I can understand the longing to complete a family.

However I would never have put myself in the same bracket as the primary infertile, as I already had a much loved child.

Luckily I eventually managed to get the go ahead to have another child, although it was a massive risk - one I perhaps wouldn't have taken had I not been so desperate.

Just my experience - but whilst devastating in its own way I don't think secondary infertility should be viewed the same as primary.

I am a bit shcocked and pretty saddened by this thread tbh. I really didn't expect so many of the responses to be so very negative. Op I get it. We had dd, got pg first month, aged 35. Joy. She is the light of our lives. We adored having a baby and watching her grow. So much so that I couldn't contemplate having another until she was 2 as we wanted to be able to exclusively enjoy our time with her.

When she turned 2 we started ttc'ing. When 6 Maths went by with no joy I instinctively knew something was wrong and though medical advice is that this is not Long in the world of ttc'ing. I just knew and stared acupuncture and healthy eating etc.

Fast forward 1, 2, 3 years and every single month we hope this is the one. Dd is now 5. We have fielded many questions and insensitive questions. We relish every moment with her. But they are a little bitter sweet as we being to realise we will only get 'one' of these milestones - 1 first steps, one first words, one first day at preschool then school etc. Doesn't mean we didn't enjoy them. I would argue that already having a child and knowing EXACTLY what that meant made our longing for another even more acute than our longing for a first was.

We did 3 rounds of Iui. One round of ivf. Financially and emotionally they broke us. I gave up hoping then. And it wa a deep deep sadness only shared by me and dh. We had brave faces on for the world and dd.

7 yrs after starting ttc'ing no 2, when dd was 9yrs old I unexpectedly got pg. It was miraculous and joyous and utterly terrifying. I was 45 then and spent an entire weekend crying tears of pure joy. We lost that baby at 12 weeks and we we plunged into an even sadder sadness. There will be no more babies for us. I am 46 now and while we give dd everything any child could want or need we grieve the baby we lost and the two who did not make it through the ivf process.

Our lives have been shaped by this experience. It is as simple as that. Pepe in here have been unbelievably insensitive.