To be livid that friend shouted at my child?

[TinyDancer69]

I am a single parent to my DS who is almost 4. Over the last year I have become close to my friend and her family and they have provided a huge amount of support to me. I am in the process of decorating my new house and she and her DH ave been amazing in terms of the support they have given me with painting, ripping out old carpets, tidying garden etc. Just general all-round helpful. Also very good and kind to DS who enjoys seeing them too.

I have noticed that on a few occasions if my DS misbehaves (as all toddlers do) she will tell him off even though I am right there. She's never shouted but it makes me uncomfortable. So I made a mental note that if it happens again I would say something. I hate confrontation but will not allow someone to tell off DS without my say-so.

We went to dinner with her family to celebrate a charity event they'd just completed. DS was sat next to friend and her DH and having a blast and I was relaxed and enjoying my night, knowing DS was in 'good' hands and I chatted to others at the table.

Then I heard her shout at DS to stop doing whatever it was (think he was messing around with his drink and spilling it). It startled me and was in my view out of line. I went to DS who looked taken aback and took him away from the table to 'chat' to him about incident. In fact I just wanted him away from the table and her. He calmed down,we returned to table and carried on. But I was and am fuming. I think those around the table knew I was not happy but probably thought it was due to DS misbehaving. I didn't say anything and we all went our separate ways a little while later.

But I am very unhappy but maybe I'm overreacting? If it was family, then fine. Or if DS was going to cause himself harm or someone else harm, then I would totally be ok at her telling him off.

I feel cooler towards her now but it's awkward because I feel indebted to her as she's been an otherwise great friend to me.

Any views/advice welcome!

No, I'm not crap at discipline but I don't shout unless there's danger involved.

We don't shout either. But you'd be shocked at how many people seem to think that means we don't discipline our kids. Part of the reason is because we prefer to talk and explain things, and part of it comes down to my hyperacuity, and also I think because of my profession I am all to aware that shouting doesn't achieve anything and often just makes things worse as it adds embarrassment and upset and often a combative attitude / stance to what is already an undesirable situation.

Tiny I'm very strict with my DC but I rarely shout. When they were little they could get quite startled by someone else shouting just because it wasn't what they were used to.

They've learned over time that people express themselves in different ways and that shouting can be expected in lots of families/situations even if it's not what we tend to do.

They aren't massively keen on (for example) shouty teachers or coaches but they cope with it fine and understand the reasons for it.

Ps I like a nice sensible OP

Look after your own child. I'm a single mother too - I get the point that you need help and it's great to have help, but you need to watch your own child. Even if you do not sit with him, have him in your line of sight at all times and show awareness that you the one in charge of looking after him. You. Not your lovely friends.

f you are right there, and he misbehaves, and you say nothing so your friend is forced to intervene, then you are not taking charge of discipline. You don't have to tell him off, but you do have to engage with him so that your friend sees you've got it covered. It is so annoying when a parent is there and says nothing to a misbehaving child.

Drop the idea that he 'misbehaves as all toddlers do'. That belief will get you nowhere. Whenever posters come on here saying 'my child misbehaves as all children do' it is most likely that they misbehave more than most children do. Try to be honest and watch the other children while they're all playing and see for yourself whether they are all 'misbehaving as all toddlers do', or whether your child needs you to step in and watch him more than you're doing.

Gah. This is when people start shouting to parents 'you have one job!' Watch your own child.

Oh, I know all about PFBs born to a mother with life experience

I do have an Angry Voice - which I don't deploy often, because it then does not work. I have 4 boys and they need to know when they are no longer pushing boundaries but about to break one or make me pop a blood vessel.
I think for me the telling off/shouting from a trusted person would be ok, random stranger not so much - unless I had seen one of my little monsters darlings doing something outrageous. Which I would not put beyond them

Massive overreaction from you OP- they sound like they do a lot for you. I don't want to sound harsh here but you will have to get used to other adults disciplining your child fairly soon- you really don't want to be that parent who cannot handle that and complains each and every time.

Watch your own child for heavens sake.
yes you are overreacting and your friend is helping to raise your child.
he feels at home with them and they have helped you so much.

Some people do raise their voices at children, they won't go through life without experiencing this.
If you don't like it then you have one of three choices, remove him from the situation, tell the person you don't like it, don't let the child see the person again.

If you have let your friend look after your child before its ok...not toddler as 'toddlers toddle'😂 hopefully your 4 yr old walks confidently and you don't need to treat him like a baby??!!
She has probably told him off before and he has not taken much notice, but as you were in the room at said time, he reacted to your reaction.....horrified face😧
My children were in part time school at 2 1/2 I'm sure they were told off, you can't be the only one to correct him, he needs others around him to interact with him too, it's all part of growing up.
Would you not correct her children for messing about with food/drink??

We try not to shout at our kids. If I do, for whatever reason, DD who is 4 is scared and I apologise to her and explain why I did it. If someone who isn't family shouted at her she's be a lot more scared. As an adult I'd understand, specially if they weren't experienced with kids. But think DD would not want to sit with them again, so the situation just wouldn't come up again.

I think the current thinking that only parents can discipline children is causing problems. It takes a village.

I wouldn't be happy. Your friend can talk to your son about his behaviour without shouting at him. I also think it's a big ask to expect a nearly 4 year old to behave in an adult fashion at a dinner table, especially for any length of time. Curious to know how your son ended up sitting next to your friends, but at a distance from you - was he encouraged to sit there, or was it more random? Do your friends have children of their own (and if so, might they occasionally be shouted at)?

In would not want someone shouting at my child. Ok to correct him or tell him not to do something - but shouting is overstepping the line

I don't have any advice OP as I only have one child currently, and he's 1 so we haven't experienced this sort of thing yet. But I did want to say that I would also be upset about this, so YANBU. I think I would probably be upset even if he were told off by most people in our family; it's my job and my partner's job, nobody elses. I would also never dream of telling off someone elses child, I would stop them doing something dangerous, but that isn't what was happening here. And contrary to what someone else has written here I have to meet a single toddler or child who never, ever misbehaves.
As an aside, I really dislike all this PFB stuff. I find it so condecending.

Tiny, I'm going to go against the tide as my feeling from the start of this thread was that YANBU.

Couldn't put my finger on it exactly, but something was troubling me while all the YABU verdicts came in, which you took on board so admirably btw

It seems to me that DF, is undermining you right in your female 'domain' and your radar knows it. She started to discipline DS right in your presence. That was the first red flag and if this was a MIL thread, the advice may well have been to assert boundaries super fast. I was wanting to ask if DF has own children, as I rtt.

At the event she shouted, unlike the first few times. That was bothering me. What nailed it and when I knew I had to say something, was when you said she and her DH insisted your DS sat with them. It seems like she's starting to exert control and the waters are muddied because of all their help. If this was a narcissistic BF who had helped you and then you noticed him shouting at DS the advice would, again, be all about assertion and zero tolerance. You were vulnerable when they started having all this involvement in your life and you feel conflicted about the absence of DSs father and so welcome other adult involvement in his life, but they may have their motives, like wanting to be your DS parents, which is your role and DF may be pushing at boundaries in a way that she couldn't / wouldn't if you were still in a relationship, or more settled after split.

I'll never forget the first person ever to raise voice/ shout at DD, just turned 12mo. It wasn't either of us or someone else she knew even: it was the new GF of our very good friend and best man - the first or second time we met her. I was livid and startled. It wasn't a safety thing and obviously not a discipline incident at that age, just horrible.

Personally think your radar is on track and I feel glad that you went over to your son after she shouted. It will have reassured him.

Well enough from me. Good luck OP

Glad you have sorted it. Honestly, if I were there, I'd feel a bit uncomfortable with someone shouting at my child, unless there was a really good reason!

I understand the feeling you get when someone else tells off your child but after thinking about it in my case I felt it was good for my child to learn that different people have different standards and not everyone will let you away with cheek or misbehaving. That said my mil sometimes gives my Dd a hard time in restaurants which gets the oh anxious and he joins in and I have ended up telling them to leave her alone. She's impeccably behaved in restaurants so doesn't deserve bad treatment from adults.
There comes a point where another adult can overstep the line but if your Ds was misbehaving then why not allow others to chastise him appropriately but not more than is necessary

Look at this way OP:

Your DS spills his drink. A completely oblivious hostess comes along and slips on the floor. She could be carrying hot liquid which she could- a) pour over herself giving her nasty burns or b) pour it over your DS giving him nasty burns, and i'm pretty sure you would have something to say about that.

She could slip and bang her head giving her a head injury/damaging another part of her body- which could result in long term damage, possibly leading to someone losing their job as they are unable to attend work.

She could fall onto your DS causing him injury and again i'm sure you wouldn't be very happy.

Not to mention (as someone who has worked as a waitress before) they have better things to do then mop up spilt drink because somebody doesn't want their child being shouted at. Accident, fine. But because their parents are being precious- completely unreasonable.

It's necessary to be told off sometimes- if she caused him physical harm, YWBU to be pissed off. But right now you are BU and PFB/POC.

If you don't trust your friend then it's on you for letting her be in his presence.

hands grip

And seriously- not all toddlers misbehave. DD2 has just turned four and she if continued to act in the manner your DS was she would be taken home. If you let them get away with it, they misbehave. Kids mess- I get them doing it, and them doing it again to test you- but a firm "no" follows after that.

They test boundaries- my 3 do things with my Mum/inlaws/friends/other family that they know they wouldn't get away with with me and DH. They all know what we consider acceptable and unacceptable and I have no qualms (and I hope they do) in them telling them to behave themselves.

All toddlers misbehave at some point!

This is the problem when you get a lot of help from certain people. They think they have gained the right to your life too and they can encroach your boundaries.
This sounds like it's more than just the telling off. I don't know why. Your post seems to indicate a bit of uncertainty with the friendship.

Your child's wellbeing is more important than that friendship.

Sorry but they seem to be doing all sorts for you including being a huge help with your son I think she has earned the right to tell him off. This is so wrong. That is why I have the above comment. People just don't get automatic right.

I agree with intaca

At the event she shouted, unlike the first few times. That was bothering me. What nailed it and when I knew I had to say something, was when you said she and her DH insisted your DS sat with them. It seems like she's starting to exert control and the waters are muddied because of all their help. If this was a narcissistic BF who had helped you and then you noticed him shouting at DS the advice would, again, be all about assertion and zero tolerance. You were vulnerable when they started having all this involvement in your life and you feel conflicted about the absence of DSs father and so welcome other adult involvement in his life, but they may have their motives, like wanting to be your DS parents, which is your role and DF may be pushing at boundaries in a way that she couldn't / wouldn't if you were still in a relationship, or more settled after split.
Read this a hundred times.

PLeased to see you've acknowledged YABU, OP.

It sounds as though your friend may have a higher expectation of behaviour, so tells your DS off when you might otherwise not; either that, or you are a little slow to respond so she doesn't think you are going to.

As for shouting at him to stop him messing with drinks, as you weren't anywhere near, you don't know how many times she may have asked him quietly beforehand, do you? If you're going to leave someone in loco parentis to your child, which you did by being at a separate table, then you clearly trust them enough to look after him; so you also need to trust them to do right by him, and that includes telling him when he's doing something wrong.

I appreciate you don't use shouting unless danger is involved, but as others have said, liquid spillage on the floor could lead to danger for others, which you also have to consider.

Hope you've calmed down now and manage to get your feelings sorted out so that nothing changes with your friendship, because she and her DH sound like lovely people who bring a lot of benefit to your and your DS's lives.

He needs to get used to being disciplined by other people anyway OP, considering he's almost school age where there are a lot of adults who will correct misbehaviour. This woman who is very close is probably a good adult to do that, sounds almost like an aunt/nephew relationship.

Of course some toddlers misbehave at some point.

But they need to know when the line in drawn- and it isn't just Mum and Dad who draw that line. I would rather my child be shouted at and be upset for a couple of minutes then them potentially endangering themselves or others- in which case, OPs DS could of done.

I agree with Intacta, actually. I have a "lively/spirited" nearly 4 yo who does push boundaries and misbehave (am a bit at the idea that some children never ever do, have never met a child that age who is completely well-behaved!) I have no problem with others correcting my DD, but I would not like someone else to shout at my child. I think disciplining and shouting are very different, and I would feel upset and very unhappy with even a very close friend who did this. I would be happy to correct someone else's child and take the drink away if necessary, but I would not dream of shouting at the child. If only because, for many children, being shouted at is very damaging to their trust in an adult. Accepting discipline and gentle correction is fine; being shouted at is hurtful and upsetting for anyone. Your friend might not see it, and it might not be outwardly evident, but it damages the child's relationship with her.

I agree that if the OP had posted that a new boyfriend had shouted at her child, loud enough to startle, the thread would have gone a very different way.

I'd feel the same in that I wouldn't want anyone shouting at or disciplining my child but you say you were happy with him in their care so their care comes with their discipline. Care for him yourself if you want to avoid that situation.
You missed the opportunity to say something and it could Mar a friendship if you make a thing out of it. I'd say something at the time. Why not do that - say something at the time? But try to avoid a confrontation if you can. They are good friends.

My kids are perfectly used to being disciplined by other people; they're not used to being shouted at nor would I want them to be. I should hope reception teachers know better than to shout at 4 yr olds. Even in the dark ages when I was at school, the good teachers didn't shout; the ones that shouted had lost control of the class long before.

It is perfectly possible to draw lines without shouting.

If the friend had had to ask him several times quietly before, the friend had plenty of time to get OP involved to help.