To be livid that friend shouted at my child?

[TinyDancer69]

I am a single parent to my DS who is almost 4. Over the last year I have become close to my friend and her family and they have provided a huge amount of support to me. I am in the process of decorating my new house and she and her DH ave been amazing in terms of the support they have given me with painting, ripping out old carpets, tidying garden etc. Just general all-round helpful. Also very good and kind to DS who enjoys seeing them too.

I have noticed that on a few occasions if my DS misbehaves (as all toddlers do) she will tell him off even though I am right there. She's never shouted but it makes me uncomfortable. So I made a mental note that if it happens again I would say something. I hate confrontation but will not allow someone to tell off DS without my say-so.

We went to dinner with her family to celebrate a charity event they'd just completed. DS was sat next to friend and her DH and having a blast and I was relaxed and enjoying my night, knowing DS was in 'good' hands and I chatted to others at the table.

Then I heard her shout at DS to stop doing whatever it was (think he was messing around with his drink and spilling it). It startled me and was in my view out of line. I went to DS who looked taken aback and took him away from the table to 'chat' to him about incident. In fact I just wanted him away from the table and her. He calmed down,we returned to table and carried on. But I was and am fuming. I think those around the table knew I was not happy but probably thought it was due to DS misbehaving. I didn't say anything and we all went our separate ways a little while later.

But I am very unhappy but maybe I'm overreacting? If it was family, then fine. Or if DS was going to cause himself harm or someone else harm, then I would totally be ok at her telling him off.

I feel cooler towards her now but it's awkward because I feel indebted to her as she's been an otherwise great friend to me.

Any views/advice welcome!

Did she shout to get him to stop immediately or did she lose it with him?

One of my daughters first memories is of a friend of ours losing it at her. She was 2 at the time. Very unpleasant.

I didn't have an issue with folks keeping my kids in check when they were wee.....as long as it was done right.

I should be clearer op - I wasn't in any way meaning that your ex wasn't horrible and abusive, but that you might be expecting your friend to behave like that because of him if you stand up to her. All I've been saying all along really is think carefully about whether the friendship is broken or if space and boundaries will mean it's worth saving. They do sound quite nice in some respects.

I think there are two issues here? The first is whether you are happy with what your friend is disciplining over and how she disciplines. The second is whether it is just that you want to do it?

In most situations I am in, i.e. with friends, I broadly expect to have the same standards and methods of discipline. I would be furious if an adult hit my child for example or used bad language to them. I've never had a situation where there has been a major disagreement on approach (although I've seen another child seriously told off by their dad for behaviour that I would have given a minor telling off for; things like that vary). If I did have such a disagreement and it was a good friend, then I'd talk to them about the standards I expect and how I discipline. If it wasn't a good friend... I'd probably just stop meeting up with them. It's never happened.

Normally, I think the adult who saw the naughty behaviour should discipline immediately - I would not expect to be called over to then tell my child off for some minor misdemeanour that I had not seen. For me, "stop messing about with your water" or "stop throwing xxx all over the floor" or "xxx why did you push her" are precisely such examples of that.

If - as has happened - my child has been properly hit or kicked by another child, or - as has also happened - my child has hit or kicked someone else's child, then again, I expect the same, although with a varying degree of telling-off depending on what actually happened (head butting, kicking - a big telling off from me. Pushing and shoving tend to get - that 's poor behaviour). If the cause is obvious (tiredness, squabbling over a toy) then I will usually remove the toy / time out etc.

I've never had reason to interfere in another parent's telling off of my child. It might not always be exactly how I'd have done it (though usually it's pretty close) but I've always had good reasons to trust the other adult's judgment of the situation.

YANBU OP. I know people like this, wade in with 'help' you didn't ask for, then think they have something over you, and you're 'ungrateful' if you don't say 'how high' for them after all they've done for you

Do you think she would have done the same if it were just the two of you, or do you think it was for the benefit of the other people present? So she could make some comment to them later about how 'did you see how much she needs me?'

I'd definitely get some space, and I 100% agree that if this was a new partner rather than a friend it would be all 'he's controlling's and 'LTB's here...

I really can't see how this thread has run to almost 300 messages, she shouted at your kid because he was misbehaving and she didn't have the same level of tolerance as you do. You have left your child under their care and you were not exactly at hand to deal with bad behaviour, BUT...

It is not a sin not to be there either, but I think that you should take this as a warning that you may need to either put more attention on improving your child behaviour OR to stop assuming that people will put up with it.

There is not way to know what your child was doing, how long he had been doing it, and how long the situation had been building up, so probably it would be a good idea not to make a fuss about this, it is honestly not worth it, you may loose a good friend that has gone beyond the call of duty to help you getting set up as a single parent. It is just that EVERYBODY has a different level of tolerance when it comes to child behaviour.

There is something that you mentioned in the first pages of your thread that I found interesting, you call your four year old a toddler (toddlers are 1-2 year olds) and that you are getting over protective after he had a though year after the break up with his dad.

If I can suggest something from a single parent to a single parent is... try to remember that the past don't define what we become, don't make up for whatever you think he may be missing for not having dad around all the time, as you know that becoming a single parent was a better option than staying in that relationship.

And when it comes to dealing with what single parenthood throws at us, don't take decisions from the point of view of pity (poor Ds doesn't have his dad around, I mean, that sucks, but don't let that past bad time model what he is to become), it does really help to take a step back when you take decisions and think "If I was not on my own what would I do?" and that applies to everything from dealing with behaviour, to what they eat and what they get.

He is not a toddler anymore, he is your little man :-)

Not sure if someone else suggested this but I was given this advice re mutual friend who would pounce in to castigate dc before I could draw breath, say breezily, "Don't worry, X I'll deal with it" Say it every time they try to 'parent' when you are present. Some people think you are not dealing with a situation unless you are using a stern voice or shouting. I find a stern look and quiet word as equally as effective. Posters who have given you a hard time probably don't know anyone quite like this. I don't mind someone correcting my child if they do it with respect.

Ps Because of this behaviour mentioned in my above post, I can not relax around this friend with my dc. No one else makes me feel like they think my dc are naughty. My dc are normally complemented for their good behaviour. The fact that you only mention that it irritates you when this one friend does it and not when lots of people do it make me believe that she is in the wrong.

My kids are older now but I would have felt very uncomfortable if a friend chastised my child as a parent/teacher would if I was present. I would expect them to bring the matter to my attention (if it wasn't already) and then let me take over.

Gentle admonishment is different; ie, 'don't do that please X' in a measured tone of voice, is OK, and I personally would have followed that up by taking over the situation with my child.

If my friend was in sole charge of looking after my child in my absence, then yes, I would have expected her to chastise him when required.

It's the same with comforting a child who's upset/hurt. I have a good friend who used to annoy the hell out of me when the kids were younger as she'd always make a great show of cuddling/comforting my child even when I was there. If it was the other way round I would pick her child up, give her a hug and take her to her mummy for the real comfort.

I know it sounds odd but it's all about boundaries and yes, OP, I can understand totally why you're not happy.

MeMySonAndl
I really can't see how this thread has run to almost 300 messages, she shouted at your kid because he was misbehaving and she didn't have the same level of tolerance as you do. You have left your child under their care and you were not exactly at hand to deal with bad behaviour, BUT...

OP was at hand. She was sat next to her friend. Misbehaviour is in the eye of the beholder - somebody else might have judged the situation differently (perhaps he was being playful; acting his age).

Wordsmith
It's the same with comforting a child who's upset/hurt. I have a good friend who used to annoy the hell out of me when the kids were younger as she'd always make a great show of cuddling/comforting my child even when I was there. If it was the other way round I would pick her child up, give her a hug and take her to her mummy for the real comfort.

That's a really interesting and apt comparison.

Yabu. You effectively left her looking after your little one whilst you socialised with others (nothing wrong with btw) so as far as I see it her way goes.

Well u say yourself you were not watching him at that point!! So you should thank your friend to do your job actually! Or did u rather your son keep on spilling drinks etc... (&you being totally oblivious of whats going on)

He's not a toddler and the fact that you've called him one makes me suspect you coddle him. You should bite the bullet and tell your friend that you don't want other people correcting his behaviour. And then you have to supervise him at all times so you are the person who guides his behaviour. She sounds like a really helpful person, so it'd be a shame to lose the friendship because you haven't actually told her how you feel. She's not psychic!

OP would you say you're quite a lenient parent with your child? I'm sure you have a close bond with your DS if you're a single parent, and that's a lovely and special thing but it can mean that you, for instance, don't deal all that well with your child when he's misbehaving or don't pick up on things that a tag team of parents might, just because it's exhausting to deal with a cross preschooler and you're trying to keep an eye on him all the time. If you don't want your friend to discipline your DS I strongly advise getting in first with the discipline rather than telling her not to say anything to him, but that will mean you have to hover more. Your friend sounds like a lovely, supportive presence in your life. I wouldn't want to lose that over something your DS won't remember or care about when he's older.

I like SpottyPjs's advice to say breezily that you''ll deal with it. After you've said that a few times, I'd be surprised if she didn't get the message.

Lots of different views on here and it is clearly very much a personal thing as to whether people feel it's acceptable for a friend to discipline their child or not.

Personally, I would never discipline a friend's child if the friend was there and I would not be happy if a friend disciplined mine in front of me.

My sense of this is that your friend and her family have developed a key role in your life, and that of your DS and this has developed over a short space of time. This has probably arisen in part because you're a single parent. It sounds like they have become valued friends and you are clearly grateful for that.

However, it seems that your friend has almost developed a sense of ownership about you and your DS. Ownership is probably too strong a word but she clearly feels she has the right to discipline your child and isn't picking up on any signals you're giving that you're not happy about it.

On balance, this family have been good friends to you and I'm sure you want to maintain that friendship. I think you should try SpottyPJs1's advice and hope your friend is in tune enough to get the message without this turning into a bigger issue.

Good luck.

Sounds like lines have definitely been blurred.

They sound like they do an incredible amount for you. Is all of that involvement in your life really necessary?

Because the thing is, with some people, they do things for you and they feel like they've earned the right to essentially run your life for you. (I'm looking at you, dsis.)

Sounds like she's painted you as some sort of helpless little girl who couldn't possibly survive without her.

You need to stop allowing her to be so involved with your ds but to do that you need to stop allowing her and her family to do so much for you.

Community parenting is no bad thing.
Will teach your son that not everyone in the world is going to let him get away with stuff like mummy does...

My brother told me my neice used to call me 'scary aunty' because I took no crap and definitely called them on their behaviour ... but guess who is now favourite auntie, and who my brother comes to to get her inline when she is playing up with her mum as a teen?
Yup. The scary one.

Can't stand it when parents stand by benignly smiling when their kids behave badly ('as they do') then whinge when another adult tells their 'little darling' off.

It's called setting boundaries. You should try it.

I don't think YABU. I wouldn't be happy and haven't been happy in the past when my boys have been told off by other people, just as I don't think it's my place to tell other children off. For the sake of your friendship, I wouldn't say anything though.

MsHoolie

It's called setting boundaries.You should try it

I'd agree with this, but she needs to set boundaries for the friend, not her child.
OP has said a few times that it's not the fact the friend disciplined her DC, it's that her friend seems a bit controlling. She 'insisted' that the DC sat with her and OP has said this friend has done things similar on the past, and she finds it a bit controlling/overbearing.

I completely sympathize. I've told kids off before and got an earful from the parent but I only do it if they're being dangerous or upsetting mine. I teach and tell kids off all the time! But the school has its own rules and so do you. I suspect you're more bothered that she's not matching your discipline style or rules rather than the actual telling off. You need to explain to your friend that you have a certain parenting style and that it's confusing your DS if he gets told off or dealt with in a different way. In front of you is rude in my opinion but explain, again, that it's confusing if you're there.. You may feel only you have the right to discipline your DS outside school and this is perfectly acceptable. You need to just calmly explain that to your friend. A good friend is not going to get upset if you explain it that way, blame yourself, use please could rather than don't. If you are happy for her to tell him off when you're not there explain that it still needs to be to your style and not hers.

Bold fail, don't know how that happened.

Shit phone, when I type the cursor thing just goes where it bloody wants!! It's constantly jumping around and I have to constantly reread and edit things where it's jumped somewhere else mid word!

My friends and I tell each other's kids off all the time and prefer it that way as they seem to take more notice!

Hmmm, he'll be at school soon....will the school staff need permision too..?
Is it not a sign of how comfortable your friend feels around you ? You'd leave her in a difficult position if you told her she couldn't.
Come to think of it I've told children who've knocked something off in a shop whose parents are oblivious to "pick it up please". It's just part of being in a responsible society.

I've had this friend!! I'm also a lone parent escaped from EA relationship. Friend would come round and sort out my house (even if I didn't really want it sorted). I had a pile of bills and she hole punched and filed them and I watched thinking I did not want them filed like that. She made little digs about how DS was naughty. He wasn't. She would discipline him when I thought it unnecessary. She doesn't have DC but clearly thought she knew better than I did. Anyway my DS never really warmed to her (unsurprisingly) & as I got busier with school and she with her career, we grew apart. What a relief.

I can see now that she was a martyr and bored with her life, and I was a people pleaser with v low self esteem. DS is now a gorgeous happy well behaved teen & I feel a bit more sure of myself & a bit less inadequate

These days if I was in the situation you describe I'd jump in and defend my DS. Passive aggressively if need be

Have a break from the friendship I say and when you see her, show her the most competent, confident, independent side of yourself.

My Mum told my daughter off once and I asked her not to speak to her in the way she did. I would make it very clear immediately to anyone who tried to discipline her in any way, shouting or not, that it is up to me or her Dad to explain rights and wrongs to her. I am not even happy with her teacher telling her off (in a strict way) to be honest but I do understand that he wouldn't have the time to sit with her and explain how her behaviour is impacting on others for example. I suspect virtually no one will agree with me on this, but I hate it when adults speak disrespectfully to children and I think there is no reason to ever raise your voice to tell them off. My daughter is very well behaved and neither myself nor her Dad have ever shouted at her, so if someone else did, it would not be acceptable from my point of view.

Why wasn't he sitting with you in the first place, he is your child. Sound like your friend could gave been a bit peeved at babysitting yet again !!!