To be livid that friend shouted at my child?

[TinyDancer69]

I am a single parent to my DS who is almost 4. Over the last year I have become close to my friend and her family and they have provided a huge amount of support to me. I am in the process of decorating my new house and she and her DH ave been amazing in terms of the support they have given me with painting, ripping out old carpets, tidying garden etc. Just general all-round helpful. Also very good and kind to DS who enjoys seeing them too.

I have noticed that on a few occasions if my DS misbehaves (as all toddlers do) she will tell him off even though I am right there. She's never shouted but it makes me uncomfortable. So I made a mental note that if it happens again I would say something. I hate confrontation but will not allow someone to tell off DS without my say-so.

We went to dinner with her family to celebrate a charity event they'd just completed. DS was sat next to friend and her DH and having a blast and I was relaxed and enjoying my night, knowing DS was in 'good' hands and I chatted to others at the table.

Then I heard her shout at DS to stop doing whatever it was (think he was messing around with his drink and spilling it). It startled me and was in my view out of line. I went to DS who looked taken aback and took him away from the table to 'chat' to him about incident. In fact I just wanted him away from the table and her. He calmed down,we returned to table and carried on. But I was and am fuming. I think those around the table knew I was not happy but probably thought it was due to DS misbehaving. I didn't say anything and we all went our separate ways a little while later.

But I am very unhappy but maybe I'm overreacting? If it was family, then fine. Or if DS was going to cause himself harm or someone else harm, then I would totally be ok at her telling him off.

I feel cooler towards her now but it's awkward because I feel indebted to her as she's been an otherwise great friend to me.

Any views/advice welcome!

For clarity - I have no issue with my son being told off! I do have an issue with an adult shouting at him loudly enough to the table to be taken aback. It was aggressive to the extent I felt the need to remove him from the situation and he then sat with me. Tbh afterwards he was fine and had a good time with no issues. The point is this is the latest in a series of similar events. Had she and I been there alone, I would have said something. But then it wouldn't have happened as I would have stepped in. Addressing the issue in front of her family would have been completely inappropriate and I would generally not do that to someone. I feel it's a pity she didn't show me the same level of consideration. It's not pleasant to hear your child being yelled at seemingly out of the blue.

I am considering how much involvement they have in my life. It's beginning to feel a but suffocating.

It was aggressive to the extent I felt the need to remove him from the situation

Well then yanbu OP. Acting aggressively towards a 4yo is pretty fucking weird tbh. I wouldn't want to be friends with someone like that.

Telling off a child is not the same as being aggressive towards them.

I agree OP that it sounds as though they're being controlling towards your child, and by extension, you. You don't want it to get to an "After ALL we've done for you!" situation. Maybe it's time to step back from them for a bit. I agree with this.

Op, I think a lot of people are missing the point. You are not saying she can't discipline your child, what you have stated is the manner in which she is doing it.
The fact that you have mentioned the amount of work they do for you, it means that you are contemplating whether you have to put with your friends behaviour in favour of their help. So far, people have said you should be grateful for their help, which you are. But, if you feel, something is not right with their behaviour, in which case, it's not right for you to put up with it either.

I would also agree with what crankyblob has said on both points and decide which one is it.

If it's becoming over bearing take a step back if you think making a comment will lead to some sort of resentment or arguments.

I wonder how this would have played out if you had said it was your boyfriend, not the boy's father who was doing what your friend is doing by making you feel uncomfortable. They would have said he was controlling and abusive.

Don't lose the friendship but know when they are needed and when you can keep your distance to stop the assertion about how much they do for you. This can easily cause guilt, stoping you from intervening when they over step the mark. They might be not bad people but because they think they are being helpful.

Am ok with people telling my child off. But if they over step the mark, I should be able to say to them it was not right. Maybe not, in front of my child if possible.

I totally agree with Nicki.

I wouldn't shout at anyone else's child and am surprised that so many on here think it is fine.

Yabu, if you're that bothered maybe you should be watching him more closely

I'd read the thread if I were you kinky

Yup just done that, apologies only read the first page

Yabu, if you're that bothered maybe you should be watching him more closely really? The incident at the restaurant was because the other couple insisted on ops' child sitting with them. They didn't just asked, they insisted. The child sat between the friend and her husband. Which means they could easily see what he was up to. there was no need to shout either because of the close proximity.

YANBU. Fine for her to say something gently to dissuade him from spilling his drink, but there's no need for shouting at all.

This is a relatively recent (I mean 20 years or so) phenomenon - I certainly got told off by friends and distant relatives when I was a kid, and thought nothing of it. Why are you angry ? Do you think they don't have the right ? Do you think discipline is solely your province ? Do you doubt their judgment? I have seen multiple parents kick off when their child has been badly misbehaving on public transport and causing damage and the mum or dad fly into a rage when the recipient of their attention attempts to stop said child damaging their property or attacking their own children. (Some) People really need to get a grip and realise that the world does not revolve around their appalling, ill-behaved offspring.

riceuten My child is neither 'appalling' nor generally 'ill mannered'. Suggest you choose your words more carefully in future.

Your friend has been enormously helpful to you - completely voluntarily -

You can't have it both ways - you seem to assume an almost family relationship with the friend and that she should help you but then when your child is naughty/has a accident you are thinking of her as a stranger with no right/obligation to address the issue.

Let it go

You see I think the OP can absolutely have it both ways. Accepting help from a friend does not give the friend the right to shout at your child.

The OP has said this isn't a one off thing either - it has been building up. Personally I would perhaps add a little distance to the friendship or maybe see them without your child being around.

Going to change my opinion - it's allowed isn't it

I don't think having fully read facts that your being unreasonable

Your friend should feel free to say if DC is behaving inappropriately but should not shout so as to upset him or undermine you and not as a consistent pattern of behaviour

Could you just tell her "if X is naughty pls let me know I prefer to discipline him"

And/or get her some flowers or do her a favour so that it's a bit less of a one way street - just in case she has gone a bit power mad and thinks her helping you equals her having a bit of an upper hand in dictating how things are. if you also help her in whatever way you can feel less uncomfortable about challenging her

That and perhaps accept a bit less help from her - just gradually reduce the time you spend with her

Sukey
I'm talking about the children who are terrified of raised voices in any context, fascicle.

And I'm making a distinction between different types of shouting. I was going with your teacher/school theme: a teacher using a loud voice directed at a group of children might be acceptable; a teacher shouting at close range at one child, in the midst of a larger group of people - unacceptable. Some children might take a while to get used to generic shouting in the first example but they should not be required to get used to the second example.

DollyBarton
Fascicle, I think it is a good point but not relevant for this thread and would likely derail it. Certainly a topic for another thread of its own if you want a discussion on that topic.

I am bemused by your thread starting invitation, Dolly (what subject did you have in mind?). My point is relevant. Many posters believe the OP should accept another adult's disciplining of her child (without OP's permission and in her presence), using a method that she is not comfortable with. In order to test the logic of why people think that might be appropriate, it's worth considering where the supporters would draw the line and why.

It's hard to judge this situation without witnessing it first hand. The friend may have raised her voice and spoken sternly,' careful! Don't tip up your glass, your drink's spilling!' Or,
shouted 'Stop that, stupid boy'
The marker should therefore be how the child reacted to the telling off. If he was fairly unaffected, not upset or traumatised and was happy to remain sitting with the friend, then I don't see a problem.
It's not practical to expect people to ask the parent's permission to reprimand a child in a given moment.

It's a tricky one but you obviously hadn't noticed what your 4yr old(not toddler) was doing and so they stepped in. If a child next to me and did something wrong like drop litter and their parent hadn't noticed, I would tell them. The shouting is the bit that's controversial imo. Have you asked your friend why she shouted, was there danger for instance?

ricueten the examples of behaviour you give don't relate at all to the scenario that OP described. Her child wasn't doing anything dagerous, attacking anyone, or vanadlising anything. He was fiddling with a drink. He sounds like a perfectly normal 4 yr old to me, not some out-of-control hooligan or the "appalling offspring" you describe. Maybe you need to get some perspective.

Also, if you don't like others discipling your child , might I suggest that YOU sit with him next time!

Erm sukey, are you suggesting we should yell at our children a bit more, just to get them used to it? Perhaps I should get someone to shout at me too, just in case I encounter someone aggressive at work?

Absolute at all the new posters that come onto a 200 plus response thread and sternly tell the OP she should have been sat with her child as if this couldn't possibly have been said already.

Erm sukey, are you suggesting we should yell at our children a bit more, just to get them used to it?

Yes, obviously that's exactly what I'm suggesting

fascicle How many times have posters come on MN to complain that their child was terrified of a teaching raising their voice at them, and is distraught, and the parent has wanted to go into school all guns blazing because their child is never shouted at home - quite often these occasions (if you dig deeper) are when the child has been doing something they shouldn't have, or about to do something dangerous. It's often doubtful whether the teacher/TA even remembers the said incident, yet according to the parent, their child is a nervous wreck as a result.

In life, voices get raised. Not everyone says "Don't do that darling because of x, y and z" particularly not in schools.

Clearly I am not advocating continually yelling AT children to "get them used to it". Life is not black and white.

I'm not even talking about the OP here, as I have said a couple of times that I think she was right to be peeved with this other, controlling-sounding woman.

Any teachers here? Do you yell? I've spent some time in my kids' classes and yelling at kids is just not the way incidents are dealt with. Even in a hall full of 3 classes and their parents making a lot of noise, the teachers don't yell to get attention. It wouldn't work anyway, one voice doesn't cut across 150. And the teachers I know have said they're trained in better ways to deal with discipline and they don't need to.

Obviously if someone was about to do something dangerous then anyone would yell, and the benefit is it has shock value because people aren't used to it. If they're yelled at routinely that doesn't work.