To find it annoying if men try n do certain things for me, like open car doors or help with chairs

[LardLizard]

Ffs I can open the car door myself and seat down at a table without help

"Yeah, I do Bertrand so I imagine that I would be grateful that someone was offering to help me.
I doubt that's the answer you're looking for though"

I'm not looking for a particular answer. So you think that if you were a man strolling along carrying, say, a bag with your gym kit and a bottle of water, and a bigger, stronger man reached over, took it out of your hand and said "I'll carry that for you" you would be grateful that he was helping you? Don't answer straight away- have a think about it first.

"I don't count then ?"

If you completely ignore the scenario I outlined and respond to a completely different one, no you don't!

Perhaps, LardLizard, you just spend so long faffing before you get out of the car and you're missing a realy unsubtle and obvious hint?

The common sense "rule" as far as I can see is to offer help to a woman if you would also offer to help a man in the same situation.

e.g. there's a big difference between someone calmly taking a pushchair up some stairs and someone trying to take a pushchair up some stairs whilst balancing five shopping bags and looking obviously frustrated / upset - in the former case I would probably not offer to help anyone, but in the latter I'd help a man or a woman.

Ditto someone who had broken down - there's a big difference between asking "everything OK?" to someone stranded by the roadside and "do you want me to do that, love?" to someone who is competently changing a wheel.

It would never occur to me to not hold a door open for someone as I was going through, and people who complain about that are pathetic, but then I wouldn't run ahead to open a door for someone either - unless there was a specific and obvious reason to (back to the bag and buggy juggling).

I'm interested that nobody has answered a question I asked a while ago- if you were a man and a bigger and stronger man took your shopping bag out of your hand and carried it for you, how would you feel?

Probably really patronised and offended.

I do struggle with this area because I love it when DH walks on the outside of the path, opens doors for me etc. He doesn't think anything deep about it, it's just how he was raised and he thinks it's just good manners, but the fact is those manners come from men thinking women need protection because they are weaker.

DH opens doors for men as well as women but he wouldn't think to walk on the outside of the path for another man. Why is that?

DH carrying heavy bags for me makes sense, he is big and very strong and I'm quite physically weak (back problems). I help my mum carry her bags because she has a muscle disorder and I find it easier to carry bags than she does, so that's just kindness.

People keep saying it is polite and they teach their son's to open doors for women and pull their chairs out.. why is that politeness and why don't you teach your daughters to do that for men? I used to do the same, until I really thought about what I was teaching them.

There is also the Ricky Wilson scenario I mentioned earlier- when a woman is wearing 6 inch heels and 15 yards of skirt then maybe the rules might be slightly different!

I was leaving the dentist the other day , the waiting room chairs are by the exit. A man waiting to be seen, I'm guessing he was about 80, grabbed the door to let me out.

Was he being a patronising arse hole?

I haven't needed a man to pull out my chair for me since I gave up the bustle.

I appreciate that others, though, seem to have hung on to theirs.

I got a postcard home about a piece of writing ds did- the teacher was very impressed that he chose to write about one of the women characters in the play they were studying. Made me pleased and depressed in roughly equal measure.

How can we get #theoatriarchyisbqdforboystoo trending? Or #jesuislameredesfils

Well, we can't assume that he wouldn't have. Maybe it's a bit judgy to tar all these men with the same brush as if we KNOW what they would or wouldn't do?

Honestly? I love it. They can hold doors, carry my bags, hold chairs, buy my dinner, speak to me gently and look at me adoringly. I'm up for all that. Thanks.

Or, the Irish fella can give me a 'sexy' [sleazy, demeaning, inappropriate] look and I'll say 'OK, then.' Shortly before I run away again.

I don't think 'feminism' has quite reached me yet...

I know this is a sidetrack- but I wish I knew why there are always so many people insistent that things aren't feminist issues!

As you were.

No, of course the man opening the door at the doctors wasn't a patronizing arsehole. Unless he opened it in a patronizing arseholy way - which is perfectly possible to do! He was using what he was brought up to think of as good manners. But the type of good manners which says there are special good manners that are only used to women is patronizing.

Don't worry Bertrand, it was a great idea for you to start a thread of your own that is discussing pretty much the same issues as this one.

I don't know Bertrand, according to the rules of feminism stated in this thread, he was a fucking arse hole. I probably should have shouted at him and beat him with his own walking stick for being so sexually suggestive.

people like the op make my teeth itch, rude, irritating and do not do women many favours. it's called having manners. if you don't want someone to help you just politely decline, not need to get on the stroppy feminist high horse. i'm a trainee feminist before anyone whinges, otherwise flame away,i'm not really bothered.

What is the feminist view on toilet seats, should men leave the seat down or up (in their preferred place)?

"I don't know Bertrand, according to the rules of feminism stated in this thread, he was a fucking arse hole. I probably should have shouted at him and beat him with his own walking stick for being so sexually suggestive."

Oh don't talk such bollocks.

Yes Bertrand resort to abuse, very clever.

The problem with being offended by something is.... so what?