New baby and ILs dangerous dog

[makingmiracles]

So, due next week, first baby for my partner, first grandchild for his mum.
His mum/db have a staffy that is very badly behaved, it was a rescue and has always had behaviour issues but they've got worse in recent years. He's not able to be walked now either because of his behaviour on walks towards other people and other dogs and they couldn't get a decent muzzle to fit him that he couldn't remove, so now he only has access to the house and garden.

A couple of years ago I was in the house with my children, not something that ever happened but the car broke down in the evening and we were waiting for the AA, we were all in what was dps room when we saw the recovery truck pull up outside so made our way downstairs.
Unbeknown to us his db had taken the dog downstairs and it was in the living room, we thought it was in db room with him. My dc opened the living room door and walked in and the dog flew at him pinning him on the sofa, 4 of us adults flung ourselves at the dog and got him off dc and luckily all dc had was a couple of tiny tooth mark bruises. Since then they have never been in the house with the dog.
Mils nephew(8) has stayed at the house recently and apparently the dog took no notice and was fine with him so it's likely what happened with my dc is because the dog was shocked to suddenly be confronted with the children when it wasn't aware they were in the house. I however wouldn't have been comfortable if nephew was my dc after what happened a couple of years previous.

Now new baby is about to arrive, I mentioned when first pregnant about the possibility of a crate and said they would need to get one in advance to get dog used to it, but nothing has happened on that front and they claim putting dog in crate will be too stressful for him anyway so won't be buying one. I've also mentioned getting a high dog gate to go on dbs room door but again nothing's been put into place.
Now it's so close to baby arriving and were expected to rock up with Nb and visit but I feel very uncomfortable about it all. Mil has said that they will shut dog out in conservatory whilst we visit, which is fine I guess but I will insist the door gets locked and I get to hold the key whilst we are there, for my own piece of mind. I'm worried that db/mil will say ooh he's whining/needs toilet and will go let him out, in the process opening the conservatory door and allowing the possibility of dog to escape back into living room.

I feel a bit cross with the situation really, the dog rules their lives in terms of not being able to have many people round to their house and I feel like dog once again is being put first above new/first grandchild.

I don't know how unreasonable I'm being as I'm too close to the situation, dog has never properly bitten me, although has gone to on a few occasions but has bitten dp when he tried to stop him going mad against the fence over the dog next door, he escaped stitches but had a big wound from that so I know dog is capable of causing considerable injury.

Dog owner and small animal vet here.
Don't ever take a child to that house while the dog lives there.
Most Staffies are great with people, but the few that aren't are doubly dangerous due to powerful jaw muscles and the tendency- bred into them for many generations; it's what they were for- to pin down and grip their opponent. A dog like this could easily jump up and drag a child out of your arms if it suddenly took the notion- and it has a history of suddenly taking notions. It is also being very stressed (mentally tortured really) by being deprived of exercise.
It needs

1. A lot of money, time, patience and effort spent with a behaviourist and very careful consistent handling for life (this isn't going to happen - and I still wouldn't take a child there); or
2. rehomed to somebody who can do the above (chances of finding suitable home are fuck all squared in a box- rescue centres are coming down with Staffies, all of which have better natures than this one); or;
3. Euthanased ("condemning" it to a swift and painless death that it cannot anticipate is probably better than condemning it to continue the life it currently leads.

But that is not your problem so don't waste your breath, you'll be ignored and resented. Don't do the keyholding thing either- you know the dog isn't going to lie quietly in the conservatory- it'll bark and scrabble (and probably overheat) and you will be the bad guy. Just don't go round there. Yes they will strop. The fools. Let them. By the way, if this dog was my patient it's clinical record would have a red flag warning on, a pop up memo saying "DANGEROUS- will attack other dogs and people, owner must arrive with it muzzled and sedated, leave in car till escorted on and off premises by the back door". Notes themselves would say, *DANGEROUS DOG- history of multiple attempted or successful injury causinh attacks on adults and children. Strongly advise euthanasia. Failing that, advise consult with APBC behavourist and ongoing training. Must never be in public place without secure muzzle and secure lead with strong handler. At home must keep two locked doors between dog and anyone other than owners. Explained owners financially liable for any future attacks as they know dog has history of attacks. Explained this history documented on clinical records. Explained we are bound to surrender clinical notes to police or court on request"

Most Staffies are great with people, but the few that aren't are doubly dangerous due to powerful jaw muscles and the tendency- bred into them for many generations; it's what they were for- to pin down and grip their opponent. A dog like this could easily jump up and drag a child out of your arms if it suddenly took the notion- and it has a history of suddenly taking notions. It is also being very stressed (mentally tortured really) by being deprived of exercise

Its refreshing to hear this admitted by someone with some authority.

Sick of hearing staffies are as safe as yorkies/Maltese.

Its shocking really power such a dog is allowed with such silly people.

YANBU, just don't go there. If they are that bothered about seeing the baby they will come to you won't they?

Why are people telling the OP what should happen with the dog? She's not his owner, there's chuff all she can do about training, rehoming or having it PTS.

OP, they've demonstrated quite clearly that they're not able/willing to manage the situation properly, you can't take your DC there until they take it seriously.

I agree, very refreshing post from powershowerforanhour

however I cant help wondering if this 'Most Staffies are great with people' is at odds with observations that staffies are 'very very common' in rescue centres?

are they really such great pets if so many of them end up in rescue centres?

why would anyone even want a pet that can be so dangerous if it turns on you, it may be placid most of the time but any dog can snap.
Why not just have a breed that cant do much damage even if it goes berserk?

glassgarden. I think so many of them end up in rescue centres because they're lively, naughty and need lots and lots of attention so only make good pets if left for very short periods. Then when not handled correctly or socialised and stimulated enough, they become stressed and aggressive. Never had a staffie and never will. A lively and lovely nutty lab was enough for me to train. They've also been overbred because there was a lot of money in them a few years ago and people on low incomes saw breeding them as easy money and too many people got on the bandwagon. Now they're no longer popular but there's still a glut around until people finally get the message and of course there may still be the "lottery winner" mentality that people still think they can make a lot of money out of breeding their Staffie.

I think YABU to consider ever being in the same house as that dog - I wouldn't be visiting that house at all, let alone taking a NB there! Sounds like it could do a lot of damage to anyone in the wrong circumstances and the ILs have their heads in the sand.

I was bitten on the face by a small "harmless" dog when I was 3 without any warning and still have a phobia of them. It didn't leave me any permanent physical damage (thank goodness!) but I'm 32 and still can't walk past a dog on the street without breaking out in a cold sweat and feeling like I'm going to faint.

I know there are a load of people who have well-mannered dogs who they feel are perfectly safe around kids and are outraged by the idea of restricting what breeds can be kept as pets, but personally I think any breeds that can be dangerous without the right upbringing should be banned and everyone should just get used to having pets that have less potential to cause injury. As long as people are allowed to keep potentially dangerous breeds, there will be cases of bystanders getting hurt because not every owner is responsible.

glass I think a lot of them end up in Rescue centres because unfortunately a lot of them are got in the first place by 'thuggish' types who get them to look tough, then their circumstances change, and they get rid of them.

Have friends with staffies and they are fine, lovely owners=lovely dogs

Now they're no longer popular
true, now huskies seem to be taking over as the archetypal 'chav' dog

everyone should just get used to having pets that have less potential to cause injury
yes, but then what will the 'thugs' use instead?

Now they're no longer popular
true, now huskies seem to be taking over as the archetypal 'chav' dog

Bloody Nora I had two Huskies and I'm as far from being a Chav as its possible to be. I adopted them in a country a long way from the UK because I knew I could look after them properly and help them cope with the heat here . But a few months in I knew I was going to try and send them back to where they belonged and one year later I did. I found new homes for them in the states in conjunction with a husky rescue center and 4 thousand pounds later, plus an 18 hour journey, the dogs are very happy with their new owner who has them out and about and up mountains daily. In fact I was so determined to do it right for them that I even had someone from the rescue center fly here and accompany them to their new home.

Some Chav

4 thousand pounds later
you spent four grand on re homing a couple of dogs?

Dogs are shifted and shunted around. A friend got her dog from doggie rescue people, who collect abandoned dogs in Eastern Europe and bring them to be rehomed in England.

collect abandoned dogs in Eastern Europe and bring them to be rehomed in England
bloody hell, as if we dont have enough abandoned dogs over here

personally I think any breeds that can be dangerous without the right upbringing should be banned and everyone should just get used to having pets that have less potential to cause injury

I know that some dog breeds are more dangerous than others, but can't any breed of dog be dangerous to some extent if it doesn't have the right upbringing?

Yes sure they can Joey the only difference being the smaller and weaker they are the less risk to adults and older children.

but can't any breed of dog be dangerous to some extent
ultimately yes, but the capacity to do harm varies widely depending on the size and strength of the dog, in particular the jaw strength

we always get this argument of 'oh but the Chihuahua is a very aggressive breed much more likely to attack than my staffie / doberman/ japanese tosa'

pretty much beside the point when you are comparing a small dog to a large powerful dog
who cares if a Chihuahua attacks you, you'd just shake it off.
Annoying but it's not going to rip your throat out even if it would like to

No point in reporting to RSPCA, they'll be less than useless and do f*ck all! Even with signs of obvious neglect, they rarely act! (bad experiences of them being utterly fecking pointless!)

bloody hell, as if we dont have enough abandoned dogs over here

Bloody hell indeed, in my quest for a dog seen so many needing homes. Why cant they be re homed in EE?

My brother has a hideous little mutt (small white fluffy ) which once flew at me and bit me on the leg for no reason (or discernible reason). I do hope he's keeping it away from his brand new grandson.

My parents in law have German shepherds and unless they are in their cages we won't go in the house. You are perfectly within your rights. Given what you have said I wouldn't go round.

Dog behaviour consultant here...

They are not taking their dogs behaviour seriously - they need to engage a behaviour consultant and properly manage their dog by crate training, by teaching the dog to wear a muzzle - a whole ton of stuff that, by the fact they are not doing these things, shows they are not taking it seriously.

Do not take your child there until the situation changes, ie, they either do not have the dog, or they have hired a professional to help them resolve hte problems AND they are actually doing as they are told (a lot of people hire a professional and then don't follow the advice given!).

Ultimately, you are aware they are not behaving responsibly, they are not taking things seriously and that the dog is a danger to children.

To take your child there, whilst you are aware of the above would be irresponsible on your part.

the capacity to do harm varies widely depending on the size and strength of the dog, in particular the jaw strength

Applauds. I have made this point until I'm blue in the face before. Yes all dogs have the potential to be aggressive. Yes it's the owners who have the power to either train or neglect. Yes good owners make good dogs. Yes Staffies can be nice. But would you rather be attacked by a pissed off staffie or a pissed off chihuahua? One is going to be fended off with thick trousers and the other is going to rip your throat out.

And any dog, even a nice dog with good owners that's never shown aggression in its entire life can be dangerous. My cousins had a huge dog of a breed known to be hood with kids if it's raised with them. Big softie. Lovely dog.

It's also seven foot tall when it's stood on its back legs, weighs almost double what I do and one day it turned on my cousin and nearly killed him. They think it was sick. It was a much loved family pet. And was destroyed immediately, as any dog that attacks a child should be.

Bloody hell indeed, in my quest for a dog seen so many needing homes. Why cant they be re homed in EE?

suspect that the 'doggie rescue people' to whom Janec refers are actually animal hoarders trying to legitimize their activities by dressing themselves up as some kind of organisation

Absolutely what everyone else says.

Do not ever go round to ILs house again while the dog is there, no matter which room it's in. You can meet up with the grandparents somewhere else on Boxing Day.

You know that this dog will attack, because it already has. To be frank, I'd have done everything I possibly could to have the dog reported as a dangerous dog and PTS if necessary when it attacked your older child.