New baby and ILs dangerous dog

[makingmiracles]

So, due next week, first baby for my partner, first grandchild for his mum.
His mum/db have a staffy that is very badly behaved, it was a rescue and has always had behaviour issues but they've got worse in recent years. He's not able to be walked now either because of his behaviour on walks towards other people and other dogs and they couldn't get a decent muzzle to fit him that he couldn't remove, so now he only has access to the house and garden.

A couple of years ago I was in the house with my children, not something that ever happened but the car broke down in the evening and we were waiting for the AA, we were all in what was dps room when we saw the recovery truck pull up outside so made our way downstairs.
Unbeknown to us his db had taken the dog downstairs and it was in the living room, we thought it was in db room with him. My dc opened the living room door and walked in and the dog flew at him pinning him on the sofa, 4 of us adults flung ourselves at the dog and got him off dc and luckily all dc had was a couple of tiny tooth mark bruises. Since then they have never been in the house with the dog.
Mils nephew(8) has stayed at the house recently and apparently the dog took no notice and was fine with him so it's likely what happened with my dc is because the dog was shocked to suddenly be confronted with the children when it wasn't aware they were in the house. I however wouldn't have been comfortable if nephew was my dc after what happened a couple of years previous.

Now new baby is about to arrive, I mentioned when first pregnant about the possibility of a crate and said they would need to get one in advance to get dog used to it, but nothing has happened on that front and they claim putting dog in crate will be too stressful for him anyway so won't be buying one. I've also mentioned getting a high dog gate to go on dbs room door but again nothing's been put into place.
Now it's so close to baby arriving and were expected to rock up with Nb and visit but I feel very uncomfortable about it all. Mil has said that they will shut dog out in conservatory whilst we visit, which is fine I guess but I will insist the door gets locked and I get to hold the key whilst we are there, for my own piece of mind. I'm worried that db/mil will say ooh he's whining/needs toilet and will go let him out, in the process opening the conservatory door and allowing the possibility of dog to escape back into living room.

I feel a bit cross with the situation really, the dog rules their lives in terms of not being able to have many people round to their house and I feel like dog once again is being put first above new/first grandchild.

I don't know how unreasonable I'm being as I'm too close to the situation, dog has never properly bitten me, although has gone to on a few occasions but has bitten dp when he tried to stop him going mad against the fence over the dog next door, he escaped stitches but had a big wound from that so I know dog is capable of causing considerable injury.

YANBU. Fuck that scenario. I wouldn't be taking my children into a house with a dog like that. My mum owns a fairly placid cocker but she's unpredictable so we lock her away when we visit.

Wow, thanks everyone for only quoting a part of my post and not acknowledging the rest of it

I did say OP is not unreasonable for not wanting to bring her baby to the house and that her PILs shouldn't expect it.

The reason I thought OP might be a bit jealous of the dog is the line before from the OP:

I feel a bit cross with the situation really, the dog rules their lives in terms of not being able to have many people round to their house and I feel like dog once again is being put first above new/first grandchild.

Again, I re-iterate that the OP is not unreasonable to not want to visit the PIL's house, PILs are within their rights to not want to put the dog in a crate etc but they should not expect OP to visit them in that case.

Theres always someone determined to be the one that disagrees with the OP, no matter what. What a stupid statement to make - says more about you Leela than the OP to be honest, someone who just wants to keep her new baby safe and alive.

Laguna - next time you make a comment about someone's stupidity, try reading their whole post and not just the parts you want to read.

Personally I'd still not want to go as I would fear that it may get out of a crate. Mad, full of energy frightened dog in a flimsy crate. Unless they got a really heavy duty one, a frantic staffie could pull a basic one to bits. You imagine the result of hyper dog afterwards.

No it would have to be in a separate building at the very least. Eg garage or locked in the car but that's not feasible in the summer.

Of course you shouldn't risk your child's life to appease your clueless and neglectful in-laws!!! I would never visit them if if there were my ILs. If they ask why, just tell them it's because they have a dangerous dog and you don't think it's possible to make the situation safe enough. The fact that they're in complete denial about this isn't your bloody problem.

leelu66 What sort of parent of a NB does not want the baby to be the centre of attention?

OP stand firm and about the new arrival. And tell your OH to grow a pair and tell his parents that their GC is not, not, NOT going to be on the same space as the dog. The choice is theirs; regime, PTS, visit you without the dog or in neutral places, or miss out altogether. Their loss if they choose wrong.

• rehome not regime DAMN THIS PHONE

But on that basis Leelu, shouldn't you also read the entire posts from op? She has made it clear this was not a jealousy thing. It is not unreasonable to say that she is sad the dog is being put before the first grandchild. This is exactly what happened to me with brother and sils dog. My mother was hateful to me for refusing to see them unless the dog was safely out of the way. I was so unreasonable, awkward And making a fuss about nothing apparently. This sort of comment from a grandparent is hurtful and cruel. Not to mention disrespectful.

Don't go round and phone the RSPCA. Even if they don't visit get their advice re the way that poor animal is being treated. It's physical and mental cruelty.

And if they don't want to visit you, their loss.

Definitely don't go. Ever.

Does DP support you in this?

Why aren't they planning to visit you anyway? With a NB they absolutely should coming to you not the other way round.

I would also consider phoning the RSPCA.

Congratulations

I love dogs. I've rehomed and, to an extent, retrained an older fear-aggressive dog (although not one who had ever bitten anyone). It can be done. But it's very hard work, not for the faint-hearted and it needs 100% consistency, patience and a willingness to understand dog psychology. It doesn't sound like the OP's MIL and BIL have any of those attributes and are not prepared to step up, either for their dog's sake or for the sake of the new member of the family.

I echo what a PP said - this is not a healthy dog. If they can't do the right thing and either work with a behaviourist or surrender it to a reputable rescue with full disclosure of its history, it would be better off PTS.

YANBU OP. In your circumstances I wouldn't set foot in their house while they are so cavalier and irresponsible about your child-to-be's safety.

Hi JaneCC I do see that from subsequent posts. I had a look for your post upthread about your DB and SIL's dog but couldn't find it.

It does sound like OP's PILs are reluctant to upset their son by telling him that the dog must go or PTS.

I would just not visit the PILs house in this situation but I can see that it's unfair to OP and her BIL that this effectively stops them visiting PIL as a family.

There's no way in hell my child would be going anywhere near the place while that lunartic of a dog is running wild biting everyone in its sight.
What exactly are your PILS waiting for. For the dog to kill someone.

Personally, after the dog had attacked my DC then that would have been the last time I visited.

The thing is you must stand firm on this, the reason I say this is that they may lock the dog away the first few times, but they will either forget, feel sorry for the dog or say that the baby needs to get used to it and then let it out.

It will be sad and no doubt your DP will be made to feel guilty, but he needs to think that his DC welfare overides everything.

Leelu. The dog bit my DD as a 15 month old. Pierced a hole just above an eye. Unprovoked. Sil holding dogs collar. Dog bit because it was telling DD off like she would a puppy. And DH and I were treated as bvu for not wanting the dog at our home - just in the garden or shut upstairs in their house. We finally went to theirs and DD was confronted by the dog age 3 - even though it was supposed to be locked away as it was let out of the bedroom. It didn't do anything that time and they are finally much more in control of the dog these days now they have a ds.

The dog is a proven danger to adults ,never mind a baby.

What else is there to say? Don't go.

Dogs should be trained or destroyed .

Do not go there. EVER. You go once, they'll argue "but it was fine last time, it'll be fine this time".

Complacency will set in. They'll be less vigilant. Or, as already demonstrated, the brother will be doing something else unbeknownst to the rest of the house occupants. It's just not worth the risk.

As your DC grows and become mobile, they'll be a greater threat / easier target for the dog.

Whilst DC is newborn, you can be more easily forgiven for being the "crazy overprotective mother". It won't be so easy to reign it in later.

Not only will they get complacent, but I think they would try to stage an 'escape' situation so they can try to prove he is ok with babies, which he isn't!

Yes quite right. I think this will be compounded by the recent visit of nephew, as in oh he was fine with nephew so he will be fine around the baby, as you say all too easy to be complacent about it.

Bottom line is that they are irresponsible and incompetent dog owners. They do not have the experience or the knowledge to host a dog and a child in the same house, let alone this particular dog. My baby is due any day now and my mum has been giving careful consideration throughout my entire pregnancy to the ways she intends to manage the situation of the baby and her dog being in the same house during visits. There is a proper plan in place. That's what responsible dog owners do. My mum's dog is as placid as you like, a total softy, but nonetheless it is an animal and as such is unpredictable. The fact that your IL's dog is vicious makes their negligence about a thousand times worse.

This has surely got to be the most unanimous response I've seen on MN. Nobody thinks it's safe for you to visit that house with a baby.

Unfortunately your MIL is a difficult person to deal with so I don't think you will find the magic solution you are looking for whereby your child is not at risk and your MIL understands and is supportive of your stance. You and DP just need to bite the bullet and tell her that it's absolutely non negotiable, you will not be visiting the house whilst the dog is there. She will be awkward and kick up a fuss, but as long as you and DP stick to your guns it will be fine.

Whether or not she chooses to visit you to see the baby is down to her and you can't control her actions. All you can do is provide a warm welcome if they do decide to visit your home and not get embroiled in any debates or discussions about your decision - tell her your stance, tell her it's non negotiable and tell her you will not be discussing it any further.

100% this Do not go there. EVER. You go once, they'll argue "but it was fine last time, it'll be fine this time".

I'd even be willing to put money on it

I am sure this has moved on, but your doing much thinking on their behalf.

You should not have to be suggesting anything in terms of crates or dog gates!

They are fully grown responsible adults, they should be taking pro active steps to make their house safe if they want to see their GC.

You also say " i will be expected to ...."

So what?

They may expect to see GC, YOU expect them to make house safe.

Its a question of leaving their responsibilities up to them, not your business.

It is your business to protect your child however, thats YOUR job.
Your perfectly entitled to put off going there.

I agree with everyone else that no way ever would my children be going to that house while the dog lives there - your ILs have proved they don't have the sense to keep kids safe around the dog.

I say that as a massive dog lover who does actually believe it is in some very specific circumstances safe to keep a dog who has bitten around children!

I will say, though, that the dog does not bite because it "thinks it is head of the pack" - pack theory was debunked decades ago. It needs a decent behaviourist (tcbts.org is a place to start), or at least its behaviour managing (e.g. walks with a muzzle when it's quiet) poor thing, not cooping up and a its problems ignoring. Doubt it would be anything other than PTS if handed over to a rescue (even a no-kill one) - it's an older dog, a very very very common breed in rescue, bite history, and male, all of which make rehoming less likely.

And don't forget that your newborn will only be a newborn for a few months.

What happens when NB learns to squeal excitedly, flap hands, throw toys, roll on the mat, crawl and eventually walk?

Where do you draw that line? NB can be held, kept in separate room to dog, but soon that won't be enough, and when do they make that choice to separate unpredictable dog from unpredictable child? Never, they will always be making excuses believing the best of the dog, until it harms your child.

Start as you mean to continue, no baby at the house unless dog is trained to be in crate, or not setting foot in their house.