New baby and ILs dangerous dog

[makingmiracles]

So, due next week, first baby for my partner, first grandchild for his mum.
His mum/db have a staffy that is very badly behaved, it was a rescue and has always had behaviour issues but they've got worse in recent years. He's not able to be walked now either because of his behaviour on walks towards other people and other dogs and they couldn't get a decent muzzle to fit him that he couldn't remove, so now he only has access to the house and garden.

A couple of years ago I was in the house with my children, not something that ever happened but the car broke down in the evening and we were waiting for the AA, we were all in what was dps room when we saw the recovery truck pull up outside so made our way downstairs.
Unbeknown to us his db had taken the dog downstairs and it was in the living room, we thought it was in db room with him. My dc opened the living room door and walked in and the dog flew at him pinning him on the sofa, 4 of us adults flung ourselves at the dog and got him off dc and luckily all dc had was a couple of tiny tooth mark bruises. Since then they have never been in the house with the dog.
Mils nephew(8) has stayed at the house recently and apparently the dog took no notice and was fine with him so it's likely what happened with my dc is because the dog was shocked to suddenly be confronted with the children when it wasn't aware they were in the house. I however wouldn't have been comfortable if nephew was my dc after what happened a couple of years previous.

Now new baby is about to arrive, I mentioned when first pregnant about the possibility of a crate and said they would need to get one in advance to get dog used to it, but nothing has happened on that front and they claim putting dog in crate will be too stressful for him anyway so won't be buying one. I've also mentioned getting a high dog gate to go on dbs room door but again nothing's been put into place.
Now it's so close to baby arriving and were expected to rock up with Nb and visit but I feel very uncomfortable about it all. Mil has said that they will shut dog out in conservatory whilst we visit, which is fine I guess but I will insist the door gets locked and I get to hold the key whilst we are there, for my own piece of mind. I'm worried that db/mil will say ooh he's whining/needs toilet and will go let him out, in the process opening the conservatory door and allowing the possibility of dog to escape back into living room.

I feel a bit cross with the situation really, the dog rules their lives in terms of not being able to have many people round to their house and I feel like dog once again is being put first above new/first grandchild.

I don't know how unreasonable I'm being as I'm too close to the situation, dog has never properly bitten me, although has gone to on a few occasions but has bitten dp when he tried to stop him going mad against the fence over the dog next door, he escaped stitches but had a big wound from that so I know dog is capable of causing considerable injury.

Just, please, don't go to their house. Our friends took their newborn to the grandparents' house in a Rock-a-Tot type car seat and their dog bit the baby's head. The GPs said "he thought it was a ball". The girl is 18 now and her arm is still paralysed. The GPs refused to have the dog pts and the GPs and the parents didn't speak to each other again. It is just not worth the risk.
It is your DP's first baby he can say to his parents he won't visit with the baby while the dog is in the house. He can visit by himself or they can visit you, without the dog. There have already been incidents, don't allow more to happen.

We had a dog pts, it is difficult, she seemed to go mad and become vicious. The vet said to my dad that we keep dogs for our enjoyment, and the dog's behaviour meant she was no longer a pleasure for us. Turned out post-mortem that she had a brain tumour which was affecting her behaviour. Your ILs have given this dog a few more years of a nice life, don't let the dog ruin your lives. It's their choice to keep a volatile dog, as a PP said.

People can have big blind spots about their dogs. I was charged by a staffie in the street and had to climb on top of a car to get away. The owners informed me it was my fault, I shouldn't have run! No apologies, nothing. It seems your in laws are similarly deluded about their animal. That's not your problem. Please make sure you keep your children away form it.

If they refuse to come to you, how bothered would your OH be?

Would he be wanting to take the baby there?

Advantage of going there is that you can leave when you want.
(of course the dog does need to be locked away & if you don't trust that that will happen...)
Poor dog-never taken out??

The dog is pack leader because no human has stepped up to the plate. It therefore considers itself above humans. That is a very scary situation for a dog to find itself in. And it will very likely attack again and without provocation to protect its' humans - as it thought it was doing when it attacked your son.

Dogs need to socialise with other dogs for mental stability. The dog is therefore mentally unstable for two reasons and should be considered very dangerous.

We had similar problems with brother and wife when their dog bit our DD when she was 15 months old without provocation and punctured a hole just above one of her eyes. After that, we said no dog and they refused to come and see us without the dog (poor doggie can't be left alone and how unreasonable we were being for not letting them come and put it in our garden - they lived an hours drive away). We went there once afterwards and the dog was shut upstairs but in the process of putting it outside, DD came face to face with the dog again when she was around 3. Total denial about the reason for the attack. Apparently the skirt they tell these days is that the dog was going for my lovely dog and DD got caught in the cross fire. No it wasn't SIL had hold of its collar, it moved head up and down so fast and aimed straight for DD, who was sat next to the dog gently patting it on the tummy. My lovely lab was no where near. I know a lot more about dogs than them and I would not have that dog for my pet - even before it bit DD.

Their dog is a border collie so it poses a lot less danger. This is a staffie and is very very dangerout. I would never visit them again tbh.

That poor dog. That's no life

Do not go round there. Do not meet them anywhere they bring the dog. Do not allow the dog to be brought to yours. Get your DP on board and be absolutely firm and unshakeable - none of your children will be in a house with that dog. Ever. Period
^ this

They can visit you, you can go to neutral territory. The dog is too unpredictable except now you can predict he will be volatile if he is stressed and children stress dogs. Don't go there.

People can have big blind spots about their dogs
Blind spot my foot, you are too kind to these morons whataboutbob
Its a passive aggressive way of attacking and dominating other people via your dog😤

I feel desperately sorry for that dog. Do you know where they got him from? Most rescue/re-homing centres are very good and would have stressed to your ILs that they needed to be firm with him, maybe take him to training classes, and most definitely that he would need to be exercised properly twice a day. Are they just ignoring the advice they were given? Keeping him without exercise will make him stir crazy and much more aggressive. That is no life for him. Your ILs sound stupid and cruel. I'd probably anonymously tip off the RSPCA.

I would never take your baby there. It just isn't worth the risk. Tell them to visit you if they want to see the baby. Why are they expecting you to traipse over to see them anyway?

Dogs do attack and kill newborn babies. Google it, and send the links to your ILs. Maybe then they will get the point.

Is it possible to retrain a dog that is 8/9 yrs old now?

A few years ago I looked up a behavioural specialist for them locally but the idea was dismissed as the cost was about £400 for a behavioural course

I think it's very hard to train an older dog, ours was just under a year old, and the owners have to be 100% on board. It's not a case of buying in a specialist and expecting them to do all the work. Dog training is mostly about training the owners to train their animals and it doesn't sound like your relatives would be capable of the commitment. When we did it it was stressful and embarrassing and bloody hard work, but I'm so pleased that we did.

The owners of the dog sounds as dysfunctional of the dog and you'd be doing all of your children a great service if you never go back to the house as long as the dog is alive and living there.

Its a disaster waiting to happen.

I'm a massive dog lover, and you're not being unreasonable. Our dog is friendly, and very gentle around young children, but if we had a visitor who didn't want him around, I'd pop him upstairs to snooze on the bed (the dog, not the visitor!).

I feel massively sorry for the dog though - responsible owners should have taken him to training/a behaviourologist to assess/sort out his aggression issues, and bollocks is there no muzzle in existence that suits him.

Keeping him confined to the house will leave him mentally bored and physically unexercised, causing him stress, and will further exacerbate any bad behaviour. They should rehome him with somebody who is willing to put the time and effort into looking after him properly.

You definitely don't want young children around a stressed, troubled and untrained dog!

That's cruelty to the dog surely? I'd call the RSPCA.

Deff never take a young child around, let alone a newborn!

I am probably the biggest fan of Staffies you will find. Love them as pets...especially when they have been lucky enough to have the same owners from puppyhood. However there is no way I would take a new baby or any other child into this home while the dog is present. This is not a lucky Staffy who has had a secure home all its life, this is a damaged dog owing to something traumatic in its background. It needs keeping away from children and other people.
If your in-laws want to see the new baby and their other grandchildren then they need to visit YOU and without the dog.

I'm speaking as a life long dog owner. Dogs do not see babies as tiny humans, babies are smelly, squeaky and act like prey. Do not trust the dog.

And don't trust your in laws to do the right thing as they haven't up to this point.
I would refuse to visit as long as the dog is there. They are too wrapped up in feeling sorry for the dog and its imagined abusive past.
They can visit you and leave the dog at home.

Surely the dog could be walked very late or very early when there is no one around.The exercise would benefit behaviour along with the stimulation. I lived in a London flat and one of the residents walked his German Shepherd (never attacked anyone but noisey and easily spooked) around midnight and even later. He said it was less stressful with no people. Dog also had a short trip out 6.30 is before the school runs.

Agree with the others, you have been reasonable. They have not, especially when you have described the dog getting out at Christmas and his biting your DS. Say no. Get DP on board.

I'm currently having a soya coffee, (I'm a straight vegan) surrounded by seven dogs. They're playing, chasing, etc. I've just finished feeding my five cats. I'll be leaving soon to pick up another three. I'm just giving you an idea of my passion for animals.

DON NOT GO TO THEIR HOUSE! This dog is not safe and they are completely incompetent dog owners. This dog needs trained and walked. If the training and walking works I still would NEVER trust it around children or strangers.

Your baby is more important than their feelings.

PIL had a massive "ridgeback?" dog which was extremely aggressive - visited them once when the dog just sat and snarled - I was rigid with fear.. refused to visit again. This was with DC aged 9 + so certainly would not take a NB - I have my own two dogs and have always had dogs but our current two go in their cages "beds" as soon as we have visitors who are unknown until the dogs are comfortable (we would keep them in if there were small children about. This is for the dogs welfare as well as any visitors - although there is no history you never know...

I have 5 pets, including 2 massive dogs. My kids have grown up with all that brood.

DO NOT GO TO THEIR HOUSE! This dog is dangerous, it is not controlled, trained, socialised and exercised and it's just a matter of time until something happens.

There is just one thing to consider here, OP, and that is your baby's safety. Now and always. So do not take it or any other children to this house. To be honest, I'm not sure why any adult would go there, either.

You asked, they have done nothing. If they subsequently try to emotionally blackmail you or your DH into visiting then I would think even less of them. If they decide that don't want to visit their new GC at your house then I would consider myself well rid of them!

There's no doubt that the dog is not being helped by its owners, poor thing. What selfish idiots they are.

YADNBU!

Dog can't be walked late at night as mil won't walk it as too strong for her to control and db goes to bed at 9pm. They tried very early morning walks but unfortunately quite a few other people also walk their dogs very early round where they live so impossible to avoid seeing other dogs out and about.
Personally I think he should be pts as I can't see rehabilitation working if they are not both 100% on board with it, the fact it could live for another 8yrs or so is incredibly depressing Imo.

I think it will be a difficult conversation but will put my foot down with dp, I think he feels torn as its his dm/db opposing our opinion on it all.
I think if we give in now and say it's ok for dog to be locked out in conservatory we will then be expected to turn up on other occasions because "he was fine".
We will be expected to be there on Boxing Day when the grandparents are round again so this is another thing I want to pre empt as I will think no differently then about the situation as I do now, the dog won't have changed in that time, if I cross that bridge now at least they've been forewarned that I will not be attending with NB, dp can go alone if he wishes.

OP, why dont your report the dog anonymously. Or perhaps that should be why dont your report its owner for keeping a dangerous dog and see what comes of it.

No way would I take a newborn to the house remember its not always bad dogs just bad owners.
Years ago my mother had a rescue dog youngest son was five at the time when the dog tried to bite sons face.I insisted the dog go in the garden until we left.My Mother put her grandson in the garden.
We never stepped foot in her house for over twelve years after the dog had died.

Who would you report such a dog to though? RSPCA in my experience are not interested unless the dog is not being fed/watered or is dreadfully underweight/in poor condition.

They stopped walking it about the same time the law came into effect about owners being sent to prison if their dogs attack so it shows they were worried enough not to continue walking it for fear of it slipping the collar and attacking someone/some dog.

I'm not sure why I'm bothering because this sounds like a lost cause, but have they tried a Halti lead:

www.companyofanimals.co.uk/product/halti-harness

It will give them more control of the dog and at least they can walk the poor thing. It doesn't solve your problem, but it might help the animal get some exercise.

Dog can't be walked late at night as /../ db goes to bed at 9pm

That's the difference between fuckwit dog owners and responsible dog owners. First ones - 'I go to bed at 9 so I can't walk the dog'. Second ones: 'Dog needs to be walked, so I can't go to bed'.