to have made my mother cry yet again?

[slightlyirritable]

Don't know where to start- right now I am at home under a duvet while my husband and daughter are out enjoying the funfair. Yet another run in with my mother has left me reeling and I can't cope with people right now. I'm sure I'm not the only one, but I don't know what to do next.

I'm 45, my mother is 73. Frankly, we're both too old to change! To keep this post under a million pages long, let's just say she has never been happy with my standards of cleaning and tidying. There are various reasons why I am the way I am- all look like excuses when I type them, but there we are. I am not a bad person.

Our daughter's going to be 4 next week. She has barely slept through the night ever. We both have full time jobs- DH leaves at 6am. We are lucky to work locally and very lucky that my parents look after DD outside nursery hours. She starts school in September.

We do our best to keep the bombsite that is our house under control, but not easy to find time that works while DD is awake and when she goes to sleep, we collapse. My parents are in this house every day for pick up and drop off (I don't drive, so I can't take her to them)

on Thursday we had the latest 'last straw'. Wait for it.....yellow broccoli.

For reasons beyond my comprehension, DD has decided to keep veg out of the fridge. I decided it wasn't worth an argument and let it continue. Mother discovered the broccoli before I'd had a chance to come downstairs. She described it as 'rotten'. It wasn't. There was also some spinach and potatoes, also apparently rotten. I never got to see them as Dad had whisked the offending articles out of the house lest we all die of yellow broccoli contamination.

Cue lecture about standards - I've had 45 years of this one- and the implications that my daugher's health is at risk. And we may all have food poisoning without even knowing it. Which is where my patience ran out. And I am told we live in squalor. Etc.

in the evening she comes in as if nothing has happened.

2 days later and they have DD for the morning so we can tidy up. This has by now been turned into a bigger deal than it really is. I phone to ask what time we're getting DD back. I get the usual answer to a totally different question, we go back down the yellow broccoli road and then I learn the shock revelation that inside a sealed box, which was inside a sealed bag, in a rucksack, were some leftover strawberries from last week, which we'd forgotten to take out after a walk. More lecture then she wound herself up into tears and hung up.

So I have made my mother cry yet again.

Literally the only thing that matters about my life to her is cleaning and tidying. She is stupidly over-happy if I do a bit of dusting and almost suicidal if I don't- which is more often than the first one.

I can hear people shouting (if they've survived this far) "so just tidy then" but it's not that simple. and if I do, there's something else. always something

When DD starts school, I'll be able to walk her there in the morning, so they don't have to come here, but in the afternoon, she wants to come back here and stay for the 2 hours before I get in, and cook dinner as well. They live 5 mins away. I don't think this is going to enhance the family harmony situation.

I have signed up a team of cleaners who come over and blitz every few months- I can't get on top of the tidying more often than that, so it's better than nothing.

I am crafty, knitting, sewing, etc. I hardly do any of it any more, as you can't enjoy yourself while there's chores to be done, but I do spend time with DD making things and to me the one hour I have with her before bedtime is precious. We have clutter. I created solutions, but they became problems. My mum 'tidies' by shoving everything anywhere it will go, so within one day, all the bits from DD's games are separated, never to be found again. Anything I put down, disappears and later turns up in the most random of drawers.

So I've sort of given up, as I'm going to be wrong anyway, whatever I do.

Finding this exhausting and hating myself. Even more so for my mother being in tears because of me.

We are all good people and everyone's miserable. My daughter is a fantastic little girl and I have worked hard to make sure she is growing up happy, healthy and confident, and with a sense of self. She is sociable and everyone loves her. I was a shy, quiet, nervous child. I don't want her to grow up like I did.

I'm so sorry this is so long.

A lot of people are fixating on the five hours thing. The OP was not specific about what she and her DH had been doing in that five hours. As they both work full-time during the week, they could quite easily have spent all that time sorting out/doing laundry/ironing, going to the dry cleaner, paying bills, sorting the recycling, meal planning, writing out a food shopping list, doing an online food shop, loading/unloading the dishwasher &/or washing up by hand and any number of other chores as well as tidying, dusting, vacuuming and other forms of cleaning.

Hi Op. I am so sorry you are deeply affected by your mum's criticism and her tears on the phone. It is not right that you felt you needed to hide under the duvet. She has reduced you to a child and you need to raise yourself up and meet her back emotionally as an adult.
I still have a critical (but lovely and loved by everyone as she is funny and bright) mother who can reduce me to feeling like a small naughty child with a look. I know where you are coming from.
My way of turning things around is not to accept the criticism. I just reflect my mum's words back to her (very gently as I did not want to hurt her). In your circs I would say something like "oh my, yellow broccoli? in the veg rack? on the turn was it? thanks for throwing it out".
Also, there are two other people living with you, your dh and your dd, so why are you taking personal responsibility for any mess in the home all on your shoulders?
Sounds like you are doing an amazing job bringing up dd and concentrating on art and crafts with her. When our mums are long dead it is the lovely times doing such things we remember, not the harsh criticism and the overbearing guilt they can sometimes (try to) load on us.

I can't imagine that anyone stands at the gates of heaven wishing they had spent more time doing housework

Tell her to keep her hoofing great nose out of it! My house is a building/bomb site and has been since i moved in 16 years ago, my son's health and safety are not compromised and he's happy and I can find something at the drop of a hat . My ex husband never helped around the house but constantly moaned about it. Your mother is helping you out the way family do and unless your child's health and safety is at risk then she should keep her nose out and let you live your life how you wish to live it. Your not a small child and your family and how you live is up to you.
My house is 126 years old and my son writes in the dust in a weekly basis and the only time I ever go to town on cleaning is if I'm expecting a visitor, which is never. People accept me for who I am and the way I am or they find someone else to pick in. My parents don't care how my house is and see happy just knowing that my son and I are happy.

I have a mother like this and also my ex's mother was even worse!! I do wonder these things:
Why the fuck(sorry!) it is assumed that it is the sole responsibility of the female of the house - what century are we in again? - I have said as much to my mum who doesn't like being seen as old fashioned.
What is it about that generation that they are so focussed on 'housekeeping'. So glad I'm not one of them really for the slim advances in equality we do have.
Why do they feel it's appropriate to give us grief about it when some, like you, work the same or more hours than the male of the household!!?
If you both work full time it's not really possible to have a pristine house without at least a weekly cleaner- unless you enjoy cleaning of course!
I have found a variety of responses, especially humour, has helped with my mother.
As for my exs mother - she is thankfully no longer part of our lives. She fell out with me, partly over things like this. She bottled up her anger/upset/judgement for a few years and then it all came out in a nasty volcano of hate! She then fell out with my ex, and rarely sees her grandchildren now. Sad but- insane.

I'm going against the grain too.

Your mum is in her 70s.

She 'gave' you a house.

She looks after your dd, in your home, for free.

Your and dh are in your 40s and between you, you can't manage one 4 yr old and a tidy house.

You've blurred the lines with your dm by expecting her to carry you, then get annoyed with her over involvement.

Honestly, you sound like a dependent, sulky teen!

OK, her crying is a bit OTT but if this house is as bad as she thinks (and there's a chance that you don't see it) then she's probably upset about what her grandchild is living in.

I think you need to grow up and stand on your own two feet.

I'm with iced coffee here... and I agree with your mum on the yellow veg! Apart from it being a health hazard it is just a crazy waste of money letting it spoil like that? (Brocolli tastes like shit when it turns, and Spinach is a bloody nightmare for spoiling IN a fridge, let alone outside of it.)

Your husband sounds like he could be part of the problem (you did not put the veg back in the fridge for fear of a row? Really? WTF?)

Others are going to stroke your ego and say 'poor you, your mum is a cow' but I disagree.
She cares for you and her grandchild and it clearly upsets her to see how you live.
My sister lives in a house like yours sounds... so cluttered it is uncomfortable to visit (literally have to lift piles of crap off the sofa to make a place to sit) So no-one really visits her anymore.
Do you have friend's round often? What do they think?
(We've all offered to help my sister declutter but she's like one of those tv hoarders, gets really arsey if you suggest throwing out a tatty cat scratch post hogging space in her lounge (she has not had a cat for 3 years). Needs a third party professiinal declutterer to help her because family get too angry with each other.

Your clutter will depress you. Can be a sign of unhappiness. You don't have to get your house looking like a doctors waiting room, but it does sound like it needs a big sort out.

You need to try to get to the bottom of why you can't cope with it.
It does sound a bit odd that you left a tub of mouldy strawberries in your daughter's backpack? (Esp when you KNOW your mum will be digging into it whilst she has her?)
I think your mum is just proper worried about you.

Waltermitty, I totally agree with you.

She has gone the extra mile, she us not crying about a yellow broccoli, she is crying about being supporting her DD day in day out, and still seeing no change or improvement.

Take a photo of rooms in your house and print them A4... guarantee it will shock you!
It absolutely polarises your vision of your house and shows ALL the clutter that your eyes and brain have gotten used to and ignore...
Try it

I would ignore your mother to be honest, if your daughters never slept through the night for a longtime and your also holding down a full time job then to hell with what everyone else thinks, its all right for some people that dont work and have all the time in the world to clean, but unfortunately not everyone has enough hours in the day to do everything, as my old mother used to say your house will be there when your not.

Also op i know how difficult it is when you have a child at the age of 4 thats never had a good nights sleep, its exhausting, especially when you have to go to work on very little sleep.

It sounds like your mum is suffering from anxiety and she is targeting your housekeeping skills as a focus point. They are probably not the route of the problem at all. Would she consider therapy. It sounds like she would benefit. Also, if you're both working, would it not be better to get one cleaner in weekly so things don't become overwhelming. Either way, this cycle of tension needs to be broken. I can tell it's really getting you both down.

I get where you are coming from mrshooley and waltermitty but the op needs to have a grown up conversation with her dm.

There are ways of being supportive and there are ways of being critical. Supportiveness brings out the adult in you and you appreciate that help. It spurs you on to make changes. I find my friends supportive.

Criticism infantalises you. When feeling like a naughty child you are not likely to feel like cooperating or listening.

The op was reduced to hiding under the duvet when criticised. I wonder whether a pristine house would be enough for the op's dm or would there always be something else "not right" for the op's dm to find fault with.

The op's dm may well be right and there may be hygiene and tidiness issues but until they can talk without dm crying and op taking refuge under the duvet it will not be resolved.

Op you need to be brave if you want changes in your relationship with your dm. You need to find out why your dm got so upset over yellow broccoli or if that was just a smokescreen and there is more going on here than cleanliness and food safety.

One day you daughter will be grown and gone and you'll have all the time in the world for cleaning and tidying.
If yellow broccoli is all your mum has to moan about, she needs to think herself lucky.
For the record, I think your mum sounds hilarious but I don't think she's meaning to be ;)

Not really a direct reply to the OP but I do a lot of childcare for my youngest DD's DS and we have some sort of argument every few weeks. All the Grandmothers I know who help out with childcare for their DDs have regular 'exchanges of view' probably because everyone is tired at the end of the day or week. Not your fault your mum cried so don't feel guilty.
As a family we have similar views on tidiness or cleanliness but we seem to find something to bicker about more often than I'd like. As I say, probably cos we're all tired.
I hate cleaning and tidying (I'm quite lazy!) but I found that by getting ample and proper storage (IKEA😊) it's much easier. And get rid of 'stuff'.
Cheer up and try to blitz just one room. You'll feel better for it.

Reminds me of my mum, which is why I moved country rather than house. We try and get on these days, over phone and Skype, but mostly we don't.

My mother in law helps with childcare for my DS. She's brilliant. Mostly it's tidy and clean but often it can be a right mess for a few weeks at a time. She never says a word. Means the world to me.
I think you need to tell your mum that you are grateful for all the help with your DD, but you are a grown up - your house, your rules. She needs to stick with it.
Noone needs stress like that on top of work and bringing up kids. I often find an hour with DS more important than doing the washing up. It'll get done eventually. They're only little for a short while.

Sending you calming thoughts and the strength to stand your ground

Perhaps the OP's DM infantalises her because OP and her DH continue to be so dependant? They rely on her for childcare and it doesn't sound like they'd be able to afford to live where they do without her either. They moved out so that OP, DH and DD could live there. Not one of my peers allows themselves to rely so heavily on their parents and I'm only in my 20s, not my 40s. It's an awful lot of help to accept if you want that person not to have any say at all in how you live.

I think it's 6 and 2 threes, here. Yellow broccoli and mouldy strawberries are rather grim, but not worth crying about.

The obsession with taking food out of the fridge does baffle me, though. Is there any really over-riding reason why you're unable to take charge of that one? I do have a child who is inclined to do bonkers things like that - we've had to hide pots of yoghurt in cool bags on top of cupboards with ice packs until he goes to bed because he's decided to follow me around with it all, even though he's already had some. He has severe ASD, though.

And I should have read past the first few pages - if it's your DH leaving fruit and veg out you need to have words with him or tell him that he's responsible for shopping daily. Idiot.

Is this purely a mother problem, or do you feel you're getting it from all sides?

Dear Yukduck and Nina Nana and all the other empathetic posters: Thank you so much for taking the time to support me. I allowed myself a down day and made the mistake of sharing it with the world. thank you all for seeing my post for what it was.

Dear haters- thank you for making me feel even more shit than I already did. I was at a VERY low point when I posted, so thanks for making me feel the world would be better without me when I last logged off.

Dear posters who didn't read the post properly, missed the point I was making, or got hung up on the wrong details: I am sorry I didn't catalogue my entire life for you to have all the facts, along with photos for you to judge what category of mess I was referring to. Thanks for making sweeping assumptions anyway and thanks for deciding how I should live my life.

I have asked Mumsnet to take this thread down, because after I stated twice that I was not going to read further, 6 more pages of comments have appeared. I am not reading them, so I sadly risk missing any more kind ones, but will risk that for the sake of not having to read the others.

I apologise to the strangers who have never met me that I may or may not keep my house as tidy as yours, despite having, as you keep pointing out, only the one child. Maybe my house is bigger than yours? As for moving nearer to the nursery, what a super idea- I'll just get the house on the market in time for the end of June, in order to hopefully be under offer by the time she finishes and moves to school. Which is also only 300m away- which I also couldn't afford to make that move as per the point you didn't read.

Any posts after this point are being written for your own benefit not mine. Thank you for making my first experience on Mumsnet so hateful that I am closing my account after 2 days. Apologies to the nice people, but you are so overshadowed, it's not worth dealing with all the bigots.

I can see why you end up having rows with your mum.

You seriously need to step back and take some deep breaths.

But you're not going to read this, so what the hey.

Haters? Are you 16?

Probably for the best OP. If reading the comments made you think the world would be better without you, it's possible you're a bit too invested. MN is fabulous for getting opinions when you really need them to be impartial but impartiality can be brutal. Take care

Oh honestly. I just can't be doing with people who post in aibu and then have a hissy fit if everyone isn't 'kind' to them

OP you are lucky - this thread could have gone much worse. You are massively privileged compared to so many on here - with your house that was given to you and it seems limitless free childcare.

If you read around this site a bit more you'd see just what shit so many posters have to deal with.

There should be a health warning on AIBU: "Do not come here to be told what you want to hear"