'We're' pregnant

[RainbowsAndUnicorns5]

Obviously I'm an awful person aibu to bristle whenever someone says this?

I'm still puzzling over how Urbanfox thinks a man saying 'we are pregnant' implies men want equality. Equality with whom, with their partners, with women in general?

Men don't have a uterus ergo men cannot be pregnant. What's equality got to do with it?

Sqizita as someone who has had miscarriages can you not see how the phrase "we're having a baby" is not always appropriate. I've been pregnant four times, I only have one child. Pregnant doesn't always equal having a baby.

I have defended this phrase because while I bear the physical brunt, pregnancy has a massive impact on DH. He never uses the phrase "we're pregnant", however ther are times when it feels more right for me. For example when telling parents (esp his) rather than saying Goulash is pregnant we would use "we're pregnant", as we are doing it together.

After the truam of DS birth and two MC since, pregnancy for DH involves more than just back rubs and sympathy. And no this does not make DH weak, infact the man that pulled out the strength to carry on after DS was born and on SCBU and I was very ill was a hero in my eyes.

"this happens with everything. cookies cookies cookies everywhere for men who make any half-arsed gesture towards giving a shit - cookies in the form of a massive collective pretence that they're doing a lot more than they are"

BUT - I believe that the generation of men I am part of, when taken as a group, do more than their fathers did in terms of caring duties. In turn, I hope that my son's generation will do more again. And eventually that will lead towards some form of equality. I don't think we should pretend men are doing more than they are - and clearly any man claiming to be pregnant needs to shake his head. However if we don't celebrate the fact we are moving in the right direction what's next? Shout and be angry and hope that men-kind will just change their entire behaviours, across the whole group, all on the same day to where it should be? Because that hasn't worked so far. Maybe praising and holding up examples of positive parenting by fathers (or "cookies" if you want to use that) is a better tool.

Pigs Men don't have equality, they have superiority in most spheres of society in most cultures all except ... pregnancy. The one thing where they aren't born to be top dog.
My reaction to this upsetting them is that perhaps mostly being the winner in everything and sometimes coming a valued second is something fathers might want to model as appropriate behaviour for young people. Not having to be the centre of everything. Not having a slightl hypocritical expectation to be unequal when they're best but equal when they aren't.

Goulash, the problem is that "pregnant" unequivocally means "carrying a foetus in the mother's uterus". No matter how supportive your DH is, he's not doing that. If he wants to show he's closely involved, he could just as easily say "my wife is pregnant".

Did you read through the last sentence of your last post unexpsoc? If I were a man and read that I think I'd feel rather insulted that anyone would think that that is how grown men should be viewed.

Yes, men need to behave responsibly and like adults, but 'praise and examples' in order to encourage them to do so? Really?

You're not talking about training a dog here.

Sqizita I''m fear you didn't understand that I was being ironic in my post about men being equal. I really didn't need the meaning of my own post explained to me. But thanks anyway.

Maybe praising and holding up examples of positive parenting by fathers (or "cookies" if you want to use that) is a better tool

But it's the excessive praise from the media/wider society etc, balanced with the excessive judging of women (man falls asleep with toddler -cute/worn out ... woman, some judgey pants hoots about social services, clutches pearls, danger! ... man works to buy his kids the best = dedicated, woman works to buy her kids the best = why did you even bother having a child you unmaternal harpy? etc). In a true 50/50 split the man is often seen as doing 'extra' because he does chores, yet the mum is often seen as doing too little parenting because she works. I know this as I'm the mum in this situation and it sucks.

Many men expect massive amounts of praise, but because they're simply innocent to the double standard. I'm sure if they walked a day in some mothers' shoes they might realise why it is so incredibly enraging.

Emotional labout/wife work - still much progress to be made. And those emotional 'cookies' are part of it. Adult men should know what to do using their moral compass. If they really need 'cookies' are they in the right mindset - morally, maturely - for this important business of truly sharing parenting?

These are some interesting articles about it - for example why men get thanked every time they do something that women never get thanked for. Why? It's part of running the household. If the man gets thanks, thank the woman too (I actually told my husband to read this. He decided to thank me every time and noticed it was awkward and time consuming and ended up insincere sounding - well guess what? It is for me when I do it on autopilot. Also starting requests with 'sorry...' ).
www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi-5fjQ-OjMAhVZGsAKHYiNBV0QFgglMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.sheknows.com%2Flove-and-sex%2Farticles%2F1109805%2Fwhy-i-dont-thank-my-husband-for-doing-things-around-the-house&usg=AFQjCNE5CWZ_sscpanp5Ezm4ez99RntduA
community.today.com/parentingteam/post/i-dont-thank-my-partner-for-helping-me-parent-and-neither-should-you

It's annoying
When our dd was born everyone congratulation DP (I was in the room) which really irritated me, i didn't see him pushing out a 10lber!

Augusta, I get the technicality of pregnant = fetus in mothers uterus (believe it or not I'm a scientist who works the implantation of the placenta in early pregnancy). My point is that being pregnant is not just a physical thing, and not only can DH support me through the physical challenge, he also has the emotional challenge associated with the uncertainty and fear of pregnancy.

While I get that the semantics of "we're pregnant" are not technically correct, it is no different than me saying we're driving home for Christmas when I don't drive and could sleep the whole six hour drive if I wish. I know the hardships of pregnancy are much greater. "My wife is pregnant" works when I'm not there but would be weird if I was with him.

"Did you read through the last sentence of your last post unexpsoc? If I were a man and read that I think I'd feel rather insulted that anyone would think that that is how grown men should be viewed.

Yes, men need to behave responsibly and like adults, but 'praise and examples' in order to encourage them to do so? Really?

You're not talking about training a dog here."

Yes, I was quite careful. See praising and examples of people who are currently adult men will then be picked up by young men who aren't yet parents and male children.

So, it's not really for the current adults. It's to show the next generation how to behave. Hope that makes sense.

Pigs Sorry, irony fail on my part.

Goulash I am so sorry for your losses but sorry no, I just can't find any comfort etc way you phrase it. And not because in some way I've failed to understand something from the point of view of a 'typical' recurrent miscarrier because as we both know (1) there is no typical and (2) reactions can vary wildly from the stoic to extreme rage to anxiety to depression. Same with language.
MY blood killed my babies (I have APS) and they were in MY womb.
It does not matter how supportive my husband was/is that's the fact of the matter.
My husband would say "my wife is pregnant and I'm supporting her" to be completely honest. If people were he'd explain why.

If you choose for your husband to say 'we are pregnant' because of your experience that's one of the few cases where there's much more of a reason than some guy wanting to be centre of attention. Most cases it's not out of consideration for a traumatised partner.

he also has the emotional challenge associated with the uncertainty and fear of pregnancy

...Now I know we are all different but if it's not too intrusive have you needed any support psychologically? Because I had clinical anxiety and although worried for me DH did not. Just wondering if that is a factor i.e. he has had more of a reaction to it and a closer experience.

squizita - yes, absolutely agree and understand all that (hold on, can I call that womansplaining?). Fully think we should guard against it BUT we need to keep pushing on with whatever tools we have to achieve equality. If some of those are fucking annoying at the moment, but means eventually things change, I would choose to be annoyed. But, obvs I am saying that as a bloke.

unexpsoc - no need to apologise, I wasn't clear enough.

squizita I'm sorry for your losses too, and I agree that there is no typical response to miscarriage. I also understand why this phrase doen't work for your situation. I suppose my argument is that it is the right phrase for me and that I should be able to use it without having to give the whole back story, that is why I feel that OP is being unresonable. I am glad that you have a DH who is willing to speak up about MC and challenge careless phrases that can hurt. I would chose to be more passive agressive and respond whith "that is nice, how are you coping?"

As I said above it is not something DH would say, it is more a phrase we would use in specific situations when we are telling people our news as a couple.

I do understand people's annoyance at men claining that they are pregnant when they are not involved, but I can't just see my DH as a sperm donor. For some men pregnacy is more than just an orgasm and a baby nine months later and we should be encouraging more support and involvement not mocking it.

BUT we need to keep pushing on with whatever tools we have to achieve equality

Nope.

We do NOT need to make things "equal" for men at the expense of women while women are still being raped and bought and sold and have access to so little of the world's wealth and power.

Fix those things before you start demanding cookies for doing totally normal things that any competent adult should do as a matter of basic self respect.

We'll achieve equality when men can say they're pregnant? Okaaaay then.

Poor men. So oppressed.

No, sorry unexpsoc I'd still feel insulted if I were a man, it's patronizing.

My own DF was born in the last year of queen Victoria's reign, so a long time ago, he did everything a modern father is supposed to do: cooked,changed babies' nappies, got up in the night to the children etc, etc because that was the sort of man he was.

Decent men will step up and support their partners no matter what; no examples needed. Other, nob type, men will not, all the praise and examples in the world will not alter that.

Squizita, yes I have had councelling to deal with birth trauma and pregnancy loss. Having talked to DH I think the loss of the first pregnancy affected me much more accutely than him. However he is still very traumatised about what happened to both me and DS at DS' birth (heamorhage, prem birth etc). I am currently pregnant and he is very worried about us losing this one, not just because he worries for me but because he would desperately like another child and a sibling for DS. I also think the emotional impact of being my support through it all has taken a massive toll on him, not just out of concern for me but through grieving the family we had hoped for etc. Unfortunately I can not get him to go and talk to anyone, the councelling I have had is offered to either parent or together as a couple.

Everything crossed for you, Goulash. That sounds really tough on both of you. :(

It's a current convention. So what? I think it's rather sweet; couples are far more invested in planning their families nowadays and perhaps it reflects that.

Still doesn't mean decent men can say 'we're pregnant', though. No matter how much they support their partners.

Loathe it. Loathe. It.

unexpecsoc,

From my perspective, you are talking nonsense because your argument sounds something like "as making harsh demands of men hasn't worked, why not try being nice to them and sucking up to them?"

From my perspective, women have been sucking to men (forced to by violence and material disadvantage) for millennia; only in very recent times have anything approximating to demands, or a little table-thumping, been issued; and it seems to be working very well, actually, relative to the millennia of cringing submissively and hoping men will be nice to us.

we have the vote, we are working towards equality at work, our husbands aren't allowed to hit us or rape us any more, there is a lot of good stuff happening. It isn't quite how I'd like it, admittedly, but judging the past 100 years against the previous several thousand, I think the grumpiness is working a bit better than the sweetness and light, thanks, so I'll be carrying on with it.