...to be considering leaving?

[shinyredbookcase]

On paper, I have the perfect life. I have a well paid job I love with flexible (but long hours). I have healthy, happy children and a nice house in a nice area. DH is a stay at home dad and he's really good at it, very committed and involved with the children, has great relationships with each of them and additionally he is very practically supportive of me. I have friends and get out to see them once or twice per month.

DH hasn't touched or spoken to me - other than practical things to do with the kids, without making eye contact - for twelve days. We've not had sex for a month, and we rarely have sex more than once per month. I can't remember the last time we spent time together alone: once the kids are in bed he says he needs time alone and spends time on his computer or out running. I've checked his phone and computer (there are no passwords) and there's no porn, weird emails etc. He is a bit less tech savvy than me but more than capable of a secret phone / private browsing etc. Though I just don't see it in his character.

I've tried to speak to him about the coldness and distance in our relationship and his lack of interest in any kind of emotional or physical contact with me many times. His parents are the same and but he knows I don't consider this normal and that I am unhappy. He knows the very specific things he does that make me feel unwanted and unhappy. He's asked me to initiate sex and tell him I want to spend time together in the evenings, but when I do he consistently turns me down - he's either tired, needs time alone, had planned to watch something on the television, etc etc etc.

I've been blunt with him - he says he isn't gay and he doesn't masturbate. There's no health problems that I know of - he eats well, is physically fit. I am of average appearance but no different to when we met. A tiny bit heavier but of medium build and good personal hygiene. I shower before bed.

I understand a SAHP needs time alone to recharge and can get 'touched out' but our kids at school age and the youngest is just finishing Year One so for the past two years he's been alone 9-3.15 every day. He does the bulk of the housework but I clean bathrooms, do ironing and cooking at weekends and share the school drop offs.

I'm not sure where to go from here. I've asked him if he wants to split up and he says the children need him, he is planning a professional IT course to get him back into work now the kids are all at school, and that I'm asking too much. I can't imagine the rest of my life like this.

shiny No, you can't force him; however you could explore what he wants, what he would ideally like, and see what happens. It doesn't have to be you that leaves, if a split is the only solution.
Your posts come across that you are generally a warm, loving couple that has become a bit disconnected over a long period of time. Wishing you all the best for a re-connection!
It's possible he may be feeling just as rejected as you do, for entirely different reasons....which may be surprising.

thank you. I feel like we've lost each other recently and now it feels like a power struggle. A bit like - why should I chase him? Why should I force him to like me when he obviously doesn't? And perhaps he's feeling like I should do the running because he does everything else. I think what people have said about us coming from really different points of view is very valid. But I am having to guess at his point of view and I resent that. I do. But I know I am going to have to get over that if things are going to change.

Now I think more about it, the conversations we've had have been more about me telling him what I need, and asking him to do it. I tell him what I feel. I hope that prompts him into telling me how he feels, and telling me what he needs, but it doesn't. Maybe he feels like it's a list of instructions from me to him.

Also, you say he has lots of time on his hands which is no doubt true, however, sometimes having all that time and a car, and everything sort of hinders you 'if you want something done ask a busy person'. I was a SAHM for a few years and it wasn't good. I am a so-called 'creative' and had all the time in the world (time I had previously craved) to do all this stuff I had always wanted to do. What did I do?? Watched Cash in the Attic, ate biscuits and felt sorry for myself. However, crucially perhaps, I hated myself for it (and my poor husband who was just trying to be understanding but somehow through no fault of his own wasn't) as I couldn't seem to get out of the rut. Back to work. Changed person.

shiny No, you can't force him; however you could explore what he wants, what he would ideally like, and see what happens. It doesn't have to be you that leaves, if a split is the only solution.
Your posts come across that you are generally a warm, loving couple that has become a bit disconnected over a long period of time. Wishing you all the best for a re-connection!
It's possible he may be feeling just as rejected as you do, for entirely different reasons....which may be surprising.

oops, posted twice. Sorry!

Coroico97 that makes so much sense to me from what I have observed from DH. He is a creative and intelligent and sensitive person and if I had 9-3.15 every day I would have so many hobbies, and friends, and do courses, and all sorts. I would love that for him too. He does work hard in the house but he also seems to spend a lot of time mindlessly surfing (when I checked his browser history he seemed to be on buzz feed type sites a lot) and it just seems really beneath the curious and creative person I know him to be. I kind of get a bit resentful I am working my arse of to let him do that, but if he's stuck in a rut and can't really see his way out of it (this course is such a positive thing though) I can see it contributing to a low mood and low self esteem. I don't want to nag him though. Perhaps this course will make all the difference.

Grumpysquash3 - you saying that is spot on. I think when we have conversations I tell him what I want. And I think he'll tell me what he wants and we'll find a bit of middle ground. But he doesn't. When I ask him directly it's in the heat of the moment, a kind of 'just tell me, if it isn't me you want, what exactly is it?!' and that makes him retreat. I have some better ideas for new approaches now.

Does he have friends, company, interests outside the family?
With the children at school, is there any volunteering or activities he could do that might a) give him a sense of self-esteem beyond the family and b) start preparing him for a return to the world of work.

It is very, very easy, as a SAHP with school-aged children, to become very lonely and isolated almost without noticing. Without my roles volunteering, I would have gone days without another adult to talk to during the day and without much to actually say to my DH about what my day was like.

But if your DH can't or won't seek help, then you shouldn't feel you have to stay in a relationship that makes you unhappy.

No, he doesn't. He's very solitary. Always has been more of a loner - but he doesn't really have any friends at all where we live now. I think I'm the only adult he speaks to from day to day and occasionally his family on the odd get together.

There are lots of opportunities for hobbies, volunteering etc. There are things he could do if he wanted to - always has been. He does get out running and he has time for computer games which he enjoys.

Not much to say about what his day is like is absolutely right. I do ask but he's very taciturn. We talk about the kids. I tell him about my day when he's in the room and speaking to me.

It is no life for a person - I'd be absolutely, crushingly miserable in his shoes - I really would. And I am really really really glad he has this course and seems enthusiastic and looking forward to it. Though I know he's nervous too.

I see you went to counselling before and used the sensate focus technique which is focuses on the physical side of things. It can be very beneficial if you have an emotional connection and ionly the physical side is lacking but that doesn't seem to be the case here. I think it would be a good idea to seek further counselling and work on the emotional distance you describe.

You mention Relate which is an excellent organisation and the best known relationship counselling charity in the UK, but it is not the only one. There is another national charity called Marriage Care as well as independent couples therapists. I mention Marriage Care particularly because they concentrate on working out why relationships do not fulfil the emotional and attachment needs of the individuals involved and that seems to be a big part of your difficulties. Once an emotional connection is established or re-established other issues (such as communication and sex) tend to fall into place.

I will look them up. Thank you. The counsellor we saw last time wasn't relate, but seemed super keen on getting us to practice techniques. I told him, fairly bluntly, that I was (TMI) so sex-starved that a nod and a wink would have done for foreplay, and that DH had no problems whatsoever in technique, but he was keen we did this so we did. I can see why DH felt a bit insulted by it. We didn't ever really talk about WHY he didn't want to do it. I think a focus more on emotional attachment and connection is what is needed. And me getting some different techniques for listening to him so I can understand his perspective.

When you stay at home all day everyday it nuts you off. This is coming from a SAHM its very hard to build a personality when you are stuck between 4 walls. I found the whole thing depressing you don't know yourself apart from someone who cleans and takes care of the children. You are at work talking to people all day your never bored you might be a little stressed but your not alone. You have to remember its mainly mums at the school gate does he relate to any of those women. He may resent the fact that you have a life and he is stuck at home with the kids.

How you put it it sounds like he is trying to find himself by doing a course. Maybe you should give him a little space and then gradually move closer to him SAH does make you anti-social there's not many groups out there for dads. I think you should encourage him to go back to work he may get some male banter then.

How would you feel if you were a SAHM you have to put yourself in his shoes. Don't tell him to get a hobby tell him to get a job he needs to feel like a man.

Perhaps when you come home from work you could do the bed and bath routine whilst he makes dinner for you both. A cheeky wee bottle of wine probably would not go amiss either.

Or suggest you make dinner for you and him whilst he does bed and bath.

Sometimes simple actions solve massive relationship problems.

Legendofthephoenix - thanks for that. I've never been a SAHM for any length of time and when I have been, I learned it was not for me. I felt bored out of my mind and so depressed at not being able to have an uninterrupted thought of my own. My job is a bit stressful - but I'm not in a role like medicine where if it life or death if I fuck up. His work is actually much more important than mine because our kids' wellbeing relies on it - I just bring in the money and the job is very secure so there's no real reason to feel stressed when you put it in perspective like that.

We don't know any other SAHDs and I don't know any SAHMs either. They're there at the school gates, but I'm not really social with them because I only drop off three times a week and he's not found himself able to strike up chat with them, being the only man. I think he worries about how he'd come across.

I can't really tell him to do anything - but I'm feeling a lot more hopeful that things might change once he starts this course and has friends with similar interests (it is full time) and a bit of a built in social life. I think it might build his confidence and he would have something for us to talk about. I hope so.

Iknownuffink - that is a great idea and something I can do tomorrow, right away, without waiting. I can arrange things to come back a bit earlier than usual too.

I don't know why I didn't think of that, except he has his routines and the house is his domain and I don't want to interfere, so much so that I feel like a bit of a guest sometimes...

You have to be patient with him. What about talk dirty to him when the kids are in bed just start of for fun banter just to get him laughing. You seem more obsessed about sex than you are about comedy get the man laughing. Me and my partner had relationship troubles but the one thing my partner always done was to make me laugh and education also played a massive part. Education opens your mind and I think you will be surprised at the change of attitude you see.

Part of me wonders if there is a lot of over analysing going on.

You're busy, he is busy. Have you had a break - just the two of you? A weekend wandering Paris or something? Or dinner out and a movie? Anything to have some fun.

He may feel emasculated and that's no ones fault.

I am joking I don't think you are obsessed with sex I do understand how you are feeling and wanting that closeness. Do you know anyone who can babysit your children so you and your dh can go out together. Maybe plan something in there near future a concert or meal out.

You say that if you were at home with all that free time you would fill it with things but would you? Have been on both sides. If you are working and stimulated and busy you do loads more stuff but if you are bored, resentful and a bit pissed off and a bit depressed you do nothing - and feeling like THAT pisses you (him) off too! It will sound weird to you maybe but it's true!!! Advice to back off a bit is good. With the best will in the world you may be putting him under more pressure. Hope you got some sleep.

A lot of the way he is sounds like it is his personality. You said he's always been like this? However I agree the evening routine would be more conducive to a happy family if you did bath and stories and he chilled or cooked a dinner for the two of you. He probably doesn't have much to talk about because he doesn't do much that is interesting at the moment. Is there anything you can both do to make your relationship more lighthearted?

I kind of agree with Charley--was he always like this, a loner? Without friends? Maybe a bit socially awkward? Sensitive to touch? If we were talking about a child people would be jumping up & down and saying he might have some Asperger like characteristics but then again if he has changed recently and used to be more tactile that's a different story.

It's very hard for you, I'm sure.

At first I was erring on LTB or 'why the hell did you marry this person'. But now after reading your posts OP, this guy sounds like he is just going through the motions in terms of living, he's not even living, he's just existing. I think I must have quite a bit in common with your DH, I was a SAHM until a year ago, living a fairly solitary existence apart from the dc. I love my own company, I'm an introvert but even I was lonely and just felt meh. I back to work part time, and even though I thoroughly detest the job (!) I have made lots of friends there and have social arrangements coming out of my ears. I still have some way to go in leading a more fulfilling life but just that small step of getting part-time work has made a huge difference to my life. Its also nice to earn and spend my own money, which I'm sure is the same no matter if you're male or female.

Yes as aintnothin says, your DH could also be quite unhappy... And expressing it through detachment / withdrawal (not unusual).

Sorry you are going through this. You sound very thoughtful and considerate.

My husband could have written your post. I suspect my distance and your husband's have different causes but I do think there is a cause and you'd be best getting to the bottom of it.

I really hope you can sort this out.

I think you should write him a long and clear, and detailed letter. But before you do, decide in what direction you are hoping things to go - and be clear about that. It all sounds so perfect in so many ways, it seems to be a communication and connection issue, which I feel really hopeful could be addressed and remedied. It might be a struggle, but it really sounds as though it's a relationship worth saving. Perhaps once he starts his new course, his self confidence will increase, and he will feel energised.