To refuse to speak to health visitor..

[Vickyyyy]

I know this is a controversial subject to begin with but I am prepared to be flamed if it happens

I suffer health issues. I am in a massive amount of pain a lot of the time, for hours and hours at a time. I am on strong pain meds to help but even the likes of oxycodone don't take it away completely. I had an operation a few months back to try and fix this pain and unfortunately the operation went wrong leaving me in more pain than ever before. I do struggle and am prepared to admit this. I can push myself to do things through the pain..doing so make me a LOT more ill later in the day though. My partner is pretty much my fulltime carer right now. The pain is at its worst on a nighttime, especially if I have pushed myself through the day, and it is as of yet undiagnosed, though my physio appointments start next month which should hopefully shine a bit of light on what the actual issue is...Anyway...

Last week, the health visitor appeared out of nowhere, as she always does, no phonecall to say she is coming or anything...and usually around 9/10am when sometimes I am still sorting kids breakfast, bath, dressed routine. Seemingly no reason for visit except for weighing (nearly) 2 year old. Fine. 10 mins and she goes. Everything seems fine. Asks where Dh is, I explain that his mother has taken ill and he is helping her in her home for a few hours.

The next day another unarranged visit. Kids have just went off it, sitting room looks like a bomb has hit it as every toy is on the floor. Yes, maybe I should have better control of my kids and make them sit quietly, but I will NEVER be that mum. I prefer them to have fun, they don't behave like this out of the house, and really, what harm does it do if they go wild for an hour or so? Anyway, health visitor comes in and immediately starts ranting about 'home conditions' that she noticed on her visit the day before. When pressed, it seems the issue was a knife on the kitchen bench, medication on the bench and another bench that had a tea stain on it. And some rubbish outside. I agree there should not have been a knife (was used for cutting up fruit..I don't like 2 year old having whole pears and such so I cut them) or medication (had taken it an hour or so prior to visit, was not my strong medication but I guess thats not the point) out on the bench...but the kids don't go in the kitchen alone so I don't see it as a massive issue or anything. The rubbish..I am awaiting the council collection of, its things like our old cot and cooker (replaced recently) and packaging that the new ones came in. Despite paying 20 quid for collection, apparently the first available date for pickup is 27th may...

So, this health visitor proceeds to spend half an hour telling me pretty much how useless I am. I have gone over what she said and no I am not overreacting. 'You are not the only person with 2 young kids' 'other people manage to watch toddlers and clean at the same time, why can't you' and such. This is after she already knows my health issues make a lot of things a huge problem for me at the moment. Told me Dh should not be spending so much time with his (ill) mother if I need help at home and its 'clear' I am not coping with the kids when hes not here. This horrific visit ended on the note of her saying if I don't follow her checklist exactly, she may have to call child protection! For the sake of a bit of mess..really? I will always favour letting the kids have fun over obsessive cleaning. I will always favour actually playing with the kids over doing a few dishes right now that could be left until the kdis are asleep...is this..unusual? I always thought this would be how most saw things.

So I was slightly hysterical at this point but trying to keep it together so as not to scare the kids. I told DH when he returned home and he said that he would deal with it next time she comes. But I don't want to see her at all anymore. I have seen a very cruel side of her. I am not proposing cutting off contact with the kids, as hubby is willing to deal with further 'appointments' (and he says there will be appointments, not unannounced visits as it has been for months). I just don't want to be there when she is. I am worried I may get a 'black mark' and be marked as a problem or something due to me unwillingness to be made to feel like dirt on the bottom of someones shoe. I don't know what I expect out of this thread tbh..its just good to get it all out. I don't understand whats gone wrong, she has been lovely at all other visits (though hubby was there for others, last week he spent a lot of time with him mother who is ill). I don't know if she was just having a bad day, if she really does think I am a shit mum, if she is bullying me for fun or something..if shes trying to motivate me top get better, which would be lovely if it was that easy...or what

(Checklist is things like clean kitchen completely. Get rid of rubbish outside and that, easy to follow and already done but thats not the point.)

Genuinely wanted to know the legalities and purpose of HVs.

If this is "genuinely" your reason, why not contact your HV team and ask them?

Actually suburban I did that more than 20 year ago and the manager of hvs waffled about them being able to support me to talk to my child enough for him to develop speech. I had to take it to the ceo of the local trust to get confirmation of their role, rights and responsibilities. I think that was pretty poor and don't think any family should be expected to receive a visit when its boundaries are unclear.

Annoying that you had to ask someone else to get clarity, but great that you got the answer you wanted by going that route.

I agree HVs who don't explain their role need to do so though.

I'm surprised so many people get home visits - the HVs I work with spend most of their time in child protection meetings.

Op you have every right to change Health visitor's at any point so don't feel you have to put up with this

Yrs, but it meant that the hvs had by then created such a bad impression that I also confirms I wanted nothing further to do with them. What is the point of wasting time with people who don't understand what their own role is. It rather infers that the service I a waste of scarce resources.

Beau I once asked my retired hv Mum ehy the UK was obsessed with weighing babies. She said that historically that's how welfare was measured. We don't have clinics here. Nor do we have unannounced visits. The only people who visit are hvs, not mws or anyone else.

Your suggestion of an introductory letter is a good one. Seriously, tell the trust and health secretary. We get given an a5 ring binder with a section for the dr explaining what the vaccinations are and another section about the HV.

There's no need for them to turn up unannounced, but equally my mum told me that many parents denied getting letters.

I think your point about confusion in the early days of who provides what is a good one. But not the fault of the individual, more of the organisation.

I am always floored by the tales on MN of awful HVs.

Alasas they have a safeguarding role, so like any professional can refer to social services. But they are supposed to check the baby's development and support the mother, keep a look out for symptoms of pnd.

I think whilst the main aim/objective for HV's is laid out, many interpret the means to this in different ways. I have had loads of HV's over the years and they have all been different.

The last one was lovely but really felt her role of "supporting" new mums translated into popping in to see them unannounced every week. She was very invested in me as my baby was born with a syndrome and kept making emergency dr's appointments for things that she felt were "off", such as a small forked line crease on baby's buttocks and a light coloured dirty nappy. The dr was sick looking at me and when I told him that it was the HV who was insisting on making the appointment he said he would have to have a word with her as she was wasting everyone's time.

When she called into me she would say at the end "I'll just go and pop into x down the road to give her a bit of support, I haven't seen her since last week" She genuinely meant well but didn't seem to realize that new mums might perceive these visits as intrusive.

I found the same with community midwives. Different one every day and they had very differing attitudes. One said an indicator of a baby not being made a priority was a clean house, and another complained that I wasn't showered/dressed when she turned up at 8.50am

Don't get me wrong, I completely agree that roles should be clarified and home visits should be only when necessary and wanted.

It's the hostility towards the entire profession - and you see it all the time on here - that is hard to understand.

I was part of serious case review a couple of years ago and the health visitor was one of the few professionals identified as being persistent in getting the family the support they needed. Reading some of the posts on here you'd think they were all useless busybodies with nothing better to do than check your fridge.

suburban, support is lovely when it's wanted, but HVs have got themselves a bit of a reputation for offering unwanted "support", which isn't always well received for obvious reasons.

If I was getting pulled up on tea stains (wtf?) and knives in the kitchen I'd be in trouble. I think I have different views on this as I would just never leave DC (age 2) unattended so a knife on the counter wouldn't be a problem. In fact I'd happily let DC use it to chop mushrooms with me as I have taught her to do it safely.

Reading some of the posts on here you'd think they were all useless busybodies with nothing better to do than check your fridge.

Don't forget about the conflicting, opinionated advice.

Hv a social workers are damned if they do damned if they don't.

I agree communication and not overwhelming new mums is necessary BUT children who are not seen by anyone else than family are possibly in a vulnerable position.

Look at the high profile cases that lead to children dying, those mothers were also insistent that there were no issues, no need for hv or Sw to call that these people were 'interfering' equally the professionals in these cases were then lambasted for not pushing harder to see these children. They can't win!

As I've said I didn't get on with first hv as she was incompetent and immature. But the majority of hv and Sw and mw I've come across have been genuinely caring people just trying to do their job.

The pp who had a trail of different people coming in including students that sounds like a very poorly organised local health authority. Students shouldn't be coming at all without prior agreement for starters (because we're british and feel very uncomfortable turning away someone who's at our door!). That definitely warranted complaint and a review of their practice.

But I don't want a situation where hv are reluctant to visit and children (and vulnerable mums) end up slipping through the cracks

I'd have been happy to receive visits from polite, professional, clean people who were able to disseminate information and evidence based research accurately and clearly. Especially if they had been able to explain their role and record information accurately. Sadly that wasn't what I got.

I still don't understand how a health visitor can say a mother must breast feed when they are unable to offer any sound advice or help when it's needed. Mine thought she didn't need to make appointments and could tell me to go to baby clinics on a whim. When I had my second bout of mastitis her response "why don't you phone the NCT, they're the experts. What do you expect me to do, make a home visit". My response, "no, and I expect nothing from you ever again". And then she started phoning me up wanting to know how I was!!!! I called her boss, noted the relationship with the hv service was over and her boss got other hv's to start phoning me up. Absolutely shocking and completely disempowering.

I'd have been happy to receive visits from polite, professional, clean people who were able to disseminate information and evidence based research accurately and clearly.

This would be the ideal obviously - I'd add plenty of experience with young children (NOT just from their training), and better training in recognising mh issues. But again - ideal world scenario

Beau to answer your earlier questions. There still is great confusion over what health visitors should do and their roles and responsibilities. This is made clear at the antenatal visit which we are meant to be offering everyone as a key visit or if not able to visit antenatally at the new birth visit. I can't personally speak for all health visitors but I don't expect parents to attend clinic however would not routinely offer home visits after the six to eight week period but this is discretionary and depends on individual circumstances

sharon (if I may), it would help if many of the HVs weren't confused. During pregnancy women receive lots of information. There should be a leaflet that sets out the role and responsibility of the service, what the visit is for, the fact that the service is options, etc. There should be a page in the pregnancy book, one should be able to google and find this information quickly and clearly. Why can't women do that? That information should be available before any family admits a health visitor into their home. Just a couple of sentences such as "your health visitor should be identified to you during your pregnancy. He or she will visit you I you home just before it shortly after the birth. Visits will be arranged with a minimum of 72 hours notice and will be at a time mutually agreed. ". Why doesn't this happen?

We have started giving out a leaflet outlining our service and the different levels of service we offer. Long overdue I think!

Alasalas2 I live in Europe and don't have a health card as you describe it.

I had a fab health visitor in UK, but she was older and very experienced. She never commented on the state of my house either!

Can you tell me please sharon if that leaflet sets out clearly that hvs ate obliged to offer the service bit families have the freedom not to engage if they wish? I think it's important.