To refuse to speak to health visitor..

[Vickyyyy]

I know this is a controversial subject to begin with but I am prepared to be flamed if it happens

I suffer health issues. I am in a massive amount of pain a lot of the time, for hours and hours at a time. I am on strong pain meds to help but even the likes of oxycodone don't take it away completely. I had an operation a few months back to try and fix this pain and unfortunately the operation went wrong leaving me in more pain than ever before. I do struggle and am prepared to admit this. I can push myself to do things through the pain..doing so make me a LOT more ill later in the day though. My partner is pretty much my fulltime carer right now. The pain is at its worst on a nighttime, especially if I have pushed myself through the day, and it is as of yet undiagnosed, though my physio appointments start next month which should hopefully shine a bit of light on what the actual issue is...Anyway...

Last week, the health visitor appeared out of nowhere, as she always does, no phonecall to say she is coming or anything...and usually around 9/10am when sometimes I am still sorting kids breakfast, bath, dressed routine. Seemingly no reason for visit except for weighing (nearly) 2 year old. Fine. 10 mins and she goes. Everything seems fine. Asks where Dh is, I explain that his mother has taken ill and he is helping her in her home for a few hours.

The next day another unarranged visit. Kids have just went off it, sitting room looks like a bomb has hit it as every toy is on the floor. Yes, maybe I should have better control of my kids and make them sit quietly, but I will NEVER be that mum. I prefer them to have fun, they don't behave like this out of the house, and really, what harm does it do if they go wild for an hour or so? Anyway, health visitor comes in and immediately starts ranting about 'home conditions' that she noticed on her visit the day before. When pressed, it seems the issue was a knife on the kitchen bench, medication on the bench and another bench that had a tea stain on it. And some rubbish outside. I agree there should not have been a knife (was used for cutting up fruit..I don't like 2 year old having whole pears and such so I cut them) or medication (had taken it an hour or so prior to visit, was not my strong medication but I guess thats not the point) out on the bench...but the kids don't go in the kitchen alone so I don't see it as a massive issue or anything. The rubbish..I am awaiting the council collection of, its things like our old cot and cooker (replaced recently) and packaging that the new ones came in. Despite paying 20 quid for collection, apparently the first available date for pickup is 27th may...

So, this health visitor proceeds to spend half an hour telling me pretty much how useless I am. I have gone over what she said and no I am not overreacting. 'You are not the only person with 2 young kids' 'other people manage to watch toddlers and clean at the same time, why can't you' and such. This is after she already knows my health issues make a lot of things a huge problem for me at the moment. Told me Dh should not be spending so much time with his (ill) mother if I need help at home and its 'clear' I am not coping with the kids when hes not here. This horrific visit ended on the note of her saying if I don't follow her checklist exactly, she may have to call child protection! For the sake of a bit of mess..really? I will always favour letting the kids have fun over obsessive cleaning. I will always favour actually playing with the kids over doing a few dishes right now that could be left until the kdis are asleep...is this..unusual? I always thought this would be how most saw things.

So I was slightly hysterical at this point but trying to keep it together so as not to scare the kids. I told DH when he returned home and he said that he would deal with it next time she comes. But I don't want to see her at all anymore. I have seen a very cruel side of her. I am not proposing cutting off contact with the kids, as hubby is willing to deal with further 'appointments' (and he says there will be appointments, not unannounced visits as it has been for months). I just don't want to be there when she is. I am worried I may get a 'black mark' and be marked as a problem or something due to me unwillingness to be made to feel like dirt on the bottom of someones shoe. I don't know what I expect out of this thread tbh..its just good to get it all out. I don't understand whats gone wrong, she has been lovely at all other visits (though hubby was there for others, last week he spent a lot of time with him mother who is ill). I don't know if she was just having a bad day, if she really does think I am a shit mum, if she is bullying me for fun or something..if shes trying to motivate me top get better, which would be lovely if it was that easy...or what

(Checklist is things like clean kitchen completely. Get rid of rubbish outside and that, easy to follow and already done but thats not the point.)

When I refused to see my HV any more because of her behaviour towards me, she threatened to report me to social services. That was fine with me, because I wanted someone outside of the situation to see what was going on. SS told her to go and boil her head (not those exact words, but similar!).

I also have a child who needs speech therapy. Social Services have been very helpful in speeding up the waiting time, much more so than the HV.

I know nothing about her background. I doubt she understands my condition as my own GP struggles sometimes and the only person who actually seems to understand me is my pain clinic doctor (and hopefully my physio once I meet them)

Cyclizine is very dangerous in overdose. A small child who takes even a few tablets is likely to fit and may die. Sorry - I'm not trying to make you feel bad - we all make slip ups. I'm just trying to explain why some of her concerns may have been reasonable, even if she didn't convey them very well.

"f I was leaving bottles of oxycodone lying round everyday I would understand it. But once, on the kitchen bench, a kitchen the kids don't go into...I just think its OTT"

The health visitor wouldn't know it was only once. Her manner and attitude towards you was unhelpful, but she was absolutely right to be concerned about seeing the drugs lying around where the children could access them. She also wouldn't know that the children don't go into the kitchen.

@ZippyNeedsFeeding

That was something else I briefly considered. Telling her if she wanted to put in a referral then go right ahead. I do know SS wouldn't have any issues with 'housing conditions'. The meds thing maybe but that will NEVER happen again and has never happened before..

However this brief spell of thinking clearly disappeared in a bunch of tears quite soon after that and trying to explain the visit to hubby upset me even more which made him quite mad and it was all just such a nightmare. As I said though I think I am going to get him to have a proper chat with her, but if shes still the same then we will switch HVs. By the same I mean unwilling to listen to anything and on a rant..not being concerned about whatever shes concerned about.

I don't understand why people are concerned about the medication and the knife. Op has clearly stated the children don't go in the kitchen.

Cyclizine is very dangerous in overdose. A small child who takes even a few tablets is likely to fit and may die. Sorry - I'm not trying to make you feel bad - we all make slip ups. I'm just trying to explain why some of her concerns may have been reasonable, even if she didn't convey them very well.

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Thats fair enough. Maybe I am overly defensive and not looking at everything clearly. I know the medication is a massive nono and I do understand her concerns over that. I just feel..it could have been discussed rather than the way it went...which felt like my mother berating me for being a naughty kid for all of 30 mins then leaving :/

I don't understand why people are concerned about the medication and the knife. Op has clearly stated the children don't go in the kitchen.

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They never go in the kitchen unsupervised as a lot of the time we have something slow cooking in the oven and as such..I am worried about them going into the kitchen on their own. I don't even let my daughter go upstairs alone though she is perfectly able to...I am one of those mothers who is overly cautious usually. Maybe this is why its getting to me so much that I made that mistake with leaving the pills out :/

Vickyyyy it's totally up to you but in your shoes I would work with your health visitor to allay her fears. You say they are unfounded so what you would have to do if you worked with her is put up with her unpleasant attitude but make sure your dh is around at the key times when you know she will 'pop in'.

Allay her fears and then request only scheduled appointments, (once kids are a tiny bit older as you might be taking them to a toddler group or pre-school etc and need to know when she will coming). Of course you do not need to have Health visitor visits at home. But now to request that they stop once she has raised an issues seems to be a rather dangerous thing to do. Maybe she will just say, 'oh OK, I was worried now I am not' or she might say 'What have they got to hide?"Or request appointments at the surgery, or request a new health visitor but personally I would not do this until I had satisfied her there was nothing to worry about.

Just for the record my son (who is adopted) came from a home where the floors were soaked with urine and no food in the house and so sometimes children are taken into care in this situations. BUT I do not think this is your home!

If I were your health visitor (I am not a health visitor) I might see a mum who is very poorly and understandably struggling due to ill health, a main carer for the two kids (five at weekends) and for the mum of the family (if I have got that right?) whose attention is now diverted to his elderly mum. Of course he cares about his mum but I think he really needs to arrange some suitable alternative care for him mum and concentrate on his wife in constant pain and two very young kids. And I say this as someone who lost her mum a few months ago. Older people in need can take a lot of caring for but that care may be available from alternative sources.

Lastly, the knife and meds would worry me a lot, and I would want to make sure that their being left out was a one off and that that would not happen again.

My house is very cluttered and untidy and I hate housework. I leave dishes in the sink all the time. The electrical appliance in the garden could be a worry if the kids have access to the garden. You might say you watch the kids all the time but if you have mobility issues which may well come with being in pain, could the kids get into difficulties in the garden with the things awaiting collect? Could these be stored in the garage, shed or elsewhere before collection.

Get your DH on side, concentrate on putting this woman's fears to rest and if you find you really cannot work with her at all make sure you document all she has asked you to do and all you have done in response to that before you go and complain about her, please.

Vickyyyy it's totally up to you but in your shoes I would work with your health visitor to allay her fears. You say they are unfounded so what you would have to do if you worked with her is put up with her unpleasant attitude but make sure your dh is around at the key times when you know she will 'pop in'.

Allay her fears and then request only scheduled appointments, (once kids are a tiny bit older as you might be taking them to a toddler group or pre-school etc and need to know when she will coming). Of course you do not need to have Health visitor visits at home. But now to request that they stop once she has raised an issues seems to be a rather dangerous thing to do. Maybe she will just say, 'oh OK, I was worried now I am not' or she might say 'What have they got to hide?"Or request appointments at the surgery, or request a new health visitor but personally I would not do this until I had satisfied her there was nothing to worry about.

Just for the record my son (who is adopted) came from a home where the floors were soaked with urine and no food in the house and so sometimes children are taken into care in this situations. BUT I do not think this is your home!

If I were your health visitor (I am not a health visitor) I might see a mum who is very poorly and understandably struggling due to ill health, a main carer for the two kids (five at weekends) and for the mum of the family (if I have got that right?) whose attention is now diverted to his elderly mum. Of course he cares about his mum but I think he really needs to arrange some suitable alternative care for him mum and concentrate on his wife in constant pain and two very young kids. And I say this as someone who lost her mum a few months ago. Older people in need can take a lot of caring for but that care may be available from alternative sources.

Lastly, the knife and meds would worry me a lot, and I would want to make sure that their being left out was a one off and that that would not happen again.

My house is very cluttered and untidy and I hate housework. I leave dishes in the sink all the time. The electrical appliance in the garden could be a worry if the kids have access to the garden. You might say you watch the kids all the time but if you have mobility issues which may well come with being in pain, could the kids get into difficulties in the garden with the things awaiting collect? Could these be stored in the garage, shed or elsewhere before collection.

Get your DH on side, concentrate on putting this woman's fears to rest and if you find you really cannot work with her at all make sure you document all she has asked you to do and all you have done in response to that before you go and complain about her, please.

I don't understand why people are concerned about the medication and the knife. Op has clearly stated the children don't go in the kitchen

Maybe because some of us have treated all the kids who were poisoned by things from the rooms they never go into, cupboards they can't reach etc? And seen all the parents who will have to live with a lifetime of guilt. We all make slip ups. Most of us get away with it but some don't.

Kids are developing and pushing boundaries all the time. Just because they haven't done it till now, doesn't mean they won't do it today. I assume the OP goes to the loo from time to time. That is plenty long enough for a toddler to swallow a handful of drugs.

Would you expect the HV not to say anything if the OP was driving the DC around without car seats? Poisoning is the 2nd commonest cause of accidental death after car crashes and it is almost always poisoning from medication of family members.

Plus are you able to sue the hospital for botching your op? My friend's op was botched and she did not look into it until after the deadline had expired to look into compensation.

I must say please do not make this a priority above the other stuff but I just thought of it because it felt so very unfair my lovely friend had her medical condition made worse by surgery.

I am very sorry you have too.

Good luck.

I think if she's previously been helpful and you've had a good relationship I might bring it up with her. She's not going to know how you feel unless you tell her. She may explain her thought processes and why her level of intervention has stepped up. It'll also give her the opportunity to reflect on her own communication.

Sharp implements, drugs etc left lying around, even as a one off is a huge worry. It only takes once. This alongside a consistently messy home, it will be noted.

HVs are damned if they do, and damned if they don't by a large proportion of MNetters. The majority are just trying to do the best they can.

I hope you work it out, it all sounds very upsetting for you.

A long time ago on a forum which no longer exists, a poster told me that health visitors are optional and I didn't need to see one unless I wanted to. This was one of the most liberating things to find out.

I haven't had a HV since, and my children have not suffered. Where they have needed treatment for anything, I have arranged it. They have their vaccinations up to date and the younger ones seem to have survived with only having been weighed at birth.

If you feel it would help you to change to someone more supportive and less judgemental then go ahead and do that, but if you don't want a HV, you don't have to have one.

I have mentioned before about getting some kind of home help for him mum. Problem is, she doesn't usually need much help, just shes had something going on with her chest recently (she wont explain to us properly..) and is finding it hard to do anything much at all. Shes actually much better now apparently so I'm assuming it was just a bad chest infection or something as its gone over so fast. She refuses to believe that she might need help at other points, though I do think she may benefit from it.

He doesn't see him helping every now and then as an issue, and tbh I don't either. Yes its hard on my own but I CAN push myself through the pain to do things. The pain I have been in on a nighttime though after a day of looking after them myself has been horrendous as it seems to be the more I do, the more pain I get. I seem to have (over the space of about a year) found out a way to kind of mentally block it out, but it doesn't work for more than a few hours as at that point it just keeps getting steadily worse. I haven't had to go to hospital in over a month though which is a plus.

His mother lives very close to us and he is always just a phonecall away IF things did get too bad..

If it was all of the time or she lived hours away or something then I would see it as a problem, but as it is right now, I don't think its worth upsetting her by suggesting she needs home help or something :/

If I were a health visitor visiting a disabled parent, I would be concerned if the place was immaculate with no toys on view.

Plus are you able to sue the hospital for botching your op? My friend's op was botched and she did not look into it until after the deadline had expired to look into compensation.

I am actually in the middle of a now win no fee claim for this. Oddly enough, the suggestion was made by the health visitor or I probably wouldn't have even thought of it.

If you have interacted well with her until this particular incident, I think you need to take a step back emotionally, and take on board what she has said practically. You say she has been helpful and supportive in the past. She wasn't attacking you - she was putting across her concerns, as a professional.

OP you do sound vulnerable, however, hv's ate obliged to offer their services to all families but there is no statutory obligation to accept their services.

Mine turned up at 9am when my ds was 12 days old. No appointment, no notice. She was not experienced, was unable to answer anything I asked and recorded information incorrectly. She obviously was on a little power trip and got her kicks from disempowering new mummies. She had no reason to bang on the door at that hour without the courtesy to make a mutually convenient appointment. She came once more, didn't understand the difference between an average or median weight and told me it was her job to make sure my baby was immunised. And got arsy when I asked her to explain why because I thought that was the job of me and my dh. She also le tyre about breastfeeding and told me I had to go to a clinic for weighing but couldn't explain why I had to. When I hit feeding problems in spite of her lectures she told me to phone the NCT because she wasn't an expert - bit she could lecture me about it.

I did make a formal complaint and I was upheld but it took a lot os effort, I was a 35 year old professional woman, husband a lawyer, etc, etc and it was still daunting. Although the CEO of the trust did have procedure rewritten to say no visit before 10am, no first visits without prior arrangement and did agree to fund a bf counsellor to support hvs who were having difficulty understanding the issues behind their mantra. She also agreed I need never again deal with the hv service and I didn't. An HV cannot enter your home without your consent. Your HVs conduct has been inappropriate but whilst untidiness is fine, leaving knives and pills out is not. My dc are now 21 and 18. I take a lot of medication nowadays. I still keep it in a locked cupboard and pill box in my handbag.

It does sound as though you need some support bit I think it would be helpful if it had been delivers in a more helpful and supportive manner. Sadly the HV service is of very variable quality and needs an urgent review, not least in the context of honesty.

Mine upset me nearly 22 years ago. I shall never forget how awful she made me feel for no reason other than a power trip. The service needs urgent review and has done for many years.

Vickyyyy I can see you've just gotten some excellent advice from VoldysGoneMouldy and MetallicBeige.

I think I would be open with her about the fact you found her a bit 'brisk' maybe last time and just emphasize how you want to work together.

No one needs to see a health visitor but once you have seen one, a fair amount, if she raises concerns and you drop her, it does look kind of suspicious. And I agree no toys out would look equally suspicious too!

Just tackle everything she tells you.

We were told by social services that in order to adopt we had to do a few things round the place. Our home was, we felt, very safe, and our dd had lived there for years with us (safely) when social services said 'do this' we said 'yes'.

Also make sure the health visitor knows that your DH's mum is on the mend and only lives round the corner. The fact he was there at 10.00 a.m. or whatever might have made the health visitor think he had been there all night.

I was taken to task by DD's headteacher in a very similar way. It was a shock as I'd been in plays with this man and regularly chatted and laughed in the pub with him after rehearsals for years .

Bottom line, he was doing his job. Probably over-egging it because we'd been 'friends' for so long and he didn't relish having to do it. But he switched into c-o-l-d child protection mode and, even though he'd got the wrong end of the stick, in a way I respected him for doing it and felt kids in his care were safe because he was prepared to do it at the first whiff of concern. It was so upsetting though and fractured the 'friendship' from that point on.

She did it badly but it was something she had to do. She clearly has concerns and iiwy I'd follow her list to the absolute letter. Squeaky clean so her concerns are fully allayed. OR let her make a referral to SS who may be able to offer you concrete support.

BTW I had one good HV in my entire time of child-rearing. Most of them were an absolute pain in the neck. The one good one was MARVELLOUS fluke imo

I know you have other issues, but I just wanted to say that apart from a visit several days after coming out of hospital, I have never ever spoken to another HV. She tried to claim I wasn't bfing right (Iwas and had been for days and days) tried to persuade me to let DP feed him formula (I had fought and cried to bf in SCBU, so no), told me I shouldn't carry him in a sling etc etc.

I told her I didn't need her outdated and ridiculous advice, and asked her to leave. I rang the centre, said I wanted it noted I didn't want anymore HV visits after the inappropriate behaviour of the first one, and that was that.

To allay her fears - and get her off your back. I have to add that the meds and the knife are definitely cause for concern, even though it was out of character for you. She is right to be concerned.

I'm so sorry to hear about your awful health problems. I do hope you get some relief and soon. Perhaps SSL would be able to chivvy along appointments to Eg the physiotherapist. It's awful you have to wait a month when you are in such dire need.

SS not SSL (ffs - predictive)

Adult dose oxycodone on a kitchen seat for over an hour in reach of children is a potentially fatal accident waiting to happen .
So afraid she does have a v good point even if her manner upset you