To refuse to speak to health visitor..

[Vickyyyy]

I know this is a controversial subject to begin with but I am prepared to be flamed if it happens

I suffer health issues. I am in a massive amount of pain a lot of the time, for hours and hours at a time. I am on strong pain meds to help but even the likes of oxycodone don't take it away completely. I had an operation a few months back to try and fix this pain and unfortunately the operation went wrong leaving me in more pain than ever before. I do struggle and am prepared to admit this. I can push myself to do things through the pain..doing so make me a LOT more ill later in the day though. My partner is pretty much my fulltime carer right now. The pain is at its worst on a nighttime, especially if I have pushed myself through the day, and it is as of yet undiagnosed, though my physio appointments start next month which should hopefully shine a bit of light on what the actual issue is...Anyway...

Last week, the health visitor appeared out of nowhere, as she always does, no phonecall to say she is coming or anything...and usually around 9/10am when sometimes I am still sorting kids breakfast, bath, dressed routine. Seemingly no reason for visit except for weighing (nearly) 2 year old. Fine. 10 mins and she goes. Everything seems fine. Asks where Dh is, I explain that his mother has taken ill and he is helping her in her home for a few hours.

The next day another unarranged visit. Kids have just went off it, sitting room looks like a bomb has hit it as every toy is on the floor. Yes, maybe I should have better control of my kids and make them sit quietly, but I will NEVER be that mum. I prefer them to have fun, they don't behave like this out of the house, and really, what harm does it do if they go wild for an hour or so? Anyway, health visitor comes in and immediately starts ranting about 'home conditions' that she noticed on her visit the day before. When pressed, it seems the issue was a knife on the kitchen bench, medication on the bench and another bench that had a tea stain on it. And some rubbish outside. I agree there should not have been a knife (was used for cutting up fruit..I don't like 2 year old having whole pears and such so I cut them) or medication (had taken it an hour or so prior to visit, was not my strong medication but I guess thats not the point) out on the bench...but the kids don't go in the kitchen alone so I don't see it as a massive issue or anything. The rubbish..I am awaiting the council collection of, its things like our old cot and cooker (replaced recently) and packaging that the new ones came in. Despite paying 20 quid for collection, apparently the first available date for pickup is 27th may...

So, this health visitor proceeds to spend half an hour telling me pretty much how useless I am. I have gone over what she said and no I am not overreacting. 'You are not the only person with 2 young kids' 'other people manage to watch toddlers and clean at the same time, why can't you' and such. This is after she already knows my health issues make a lot of things a huge problem for me at the moment. Told me Dh should not be spending so much time with his (ill) mother if I need help at home and its 'clear' I am not coping with the kids when hes not here. This horrific visit ended on the note of her saying if I don't follow her checklist exactly, she may have to call child protection! For the sake of a bit of mess..really? I will always favour letting the kids have fun over obsessive cleaning. I will always favour actually playing with the kids over doing a few dishes right now that could be left until the kdis are asleep...is this..unusual? I always thought this would be how most saw things.

So I was slightly hysterical at this point but trying to keep it together so as not to scare the kids. I told DH when he returned home and he said that he would deal with it next time she comes. But I don't want to see her at all anymore. I have seen a very cruel side of her. I am not proposing cutting off contact with the kids, as hubby is willing to deal with further 'appointments' (and he says there will be appointments, not unannounced visits as it has been for months). I just don't want to be there when she is. I am worried I may get a 'black mark' and be marked as a problem or something due to me unwillingness to be made to feel like dirt on the bottom of someones shoe. I don't know what I expect out of this thread tbh..its just good to get it all out. I don't understand whats gone wrong, she has been lovely at all other visits (though hubby was there for others, last week he spent a lot of time with him mother who is ill). I don't know if she was just having a bad day, if she really does think I am a shit mum, if she is bullying me for fun or something..if shes trying to motivate me top get better, which would be lovely if it was that easy...or what

(Checklist is things like clean kitchen completely. Get rid of rubbish outside and that, easy to follow and already done but thats not the point.)

I'm from Lancs live in Yorks (via loads of places) and have never come across it so don't think it's northern as such. Maybe just to your area. Funny old language and its variations we have.

As usual any thread mentioning health visitor goes straight into an attack on the whole service. What a waste of space health visitors are and how they bully or give rubbish advice.
Maybe there is another side to this story. The health visitor had been supporting the lady but then came into a situation which she felt was a potential risk to the children. Drugs and a knife left on the side in reach. Rubbish and clutter in the home. Maybe this was a case of needing extra support from childrens services.

I am very dubious about rubbish/clutter in the home of someone with chronic pain being seen as a cause for safeguarding intervention unless it is quite extreme and also not sure about the "risk" in having medicines and a kitchen implement on a worktop not cleared away on an unannounced visit when there is an adult present with a child.

Not sure that it's wonderfully evidence-based to intervene in judgemental ways, either: "You are not the only person with 2 young kids' and 'other people manage to watch toddlers and clean at the same time, why can't you' to someone with chronic pain? And to provide a checklist that must be followed on threat of onward referral? Doesn't sound particularly helpful or supportive.

I don't see how clean your house is - or isn't - has anything to do with your HV. It s simply none of their business.

I think I would have a real think about making it more childproof but the tidiness bit baffles me. Is there another HV you could request?

This thread makes me incredibly glad that, as professionals who live in an affluent area, we have always slipped under the radar of HVs etc. With DD1 we had visits in week 1 (we were out) week 2 (I was mowing the lawn while BF DD) and week 3 (I was back at work and DP was looking after DD while WFH). Our house is pretty much always a tip, despite huge amounts of domestic help because we really aren't that bothered. DCs never went to be weighed, measured, poked or prodded and we have always had a cavelier approach to school attendance. However we get away with doing exactly what we like because we are seen as low risk.

R She sounds absolutely awwful, yes her manner very abrasive compared that she is working with vulnerable women. Apart from the Meds an the knife, but she could have approached that In a more sensitive manner. It all sounds quite normal. I would refuse home visits, and just request you see her at the hv office.

It seems to be all fine now as checklist was done and such. She was still slightly off with me but I did manage to get that it was a worry as the place is usually pretty much perfect except for toys in the sitting room and then suddenly it wasn't, on day when hubby was busy doing something else. It was made out that she was worried about how I was coping, for me...but it certainly didn't seem that way and no matter how I look at it I can't see it that way but its all in the past now I guess. Slightly worried that it may now be a bit of a power trip thing..oh you did what I said once so you will do it again now kinda thing(completely ignoring the fact that even without the checklist this would have been done..)...but that may be just paranoia on my part

Whole thing has left a bit of a bitter taste in my mouth though really..but its just one of those things its better to suck it up and ignore the bad feeling I think. I really wish the HV I had to start with (like 3 and a half years back now..first one with my daughter) hadn't gone on maternity leave then never came back, she was absolutely fantastic.

I would never slag off the whole profession as I have had good experiences as well as bad. This recent thing has been the only 'bad' one I have had really and I could kinda see her POV by the end of it. Completely disagree with her being worried 'about me' though which was said today. I hope we can go back to her actually supporting me now though instead of threatening me.

Sounds like it has all worked out fine.

Re "Slightly worried that it may now be a bit of a power trip thing..oh you did what I said once so you will do it again now kinda thing(completely ignoring the fact that even without the checklist this would have been done..)" I would suggest you stop being paranoid about it as you say"...but that may be just paranoia on my part." I think it is.

The health visitor may be worried about you but she might, ultimately, be worried about the children. If you are ill and can't cope she may be worried about you but it will reflect on the kids and could endanger them.

You know part of me even wonders if she might have thought your dh had moved to his mum's help her or even that you and your dh had split up and you were left with the kids.

Your descriptions of the house are a bit confusing, a bomb hit it verses toys all over the living room. I think focus on getting as well as you can, moving on, don't be worried but do keep up the things you have mentioned that were on the list. Who cares why you did what was on the list. Hopefully, you did it because you could see the sense to it.

Good luck.

Your descriptions of the house are a bit confusing, a bomb hit it verses toys all over the living room.

A bomb exploded in my living room, the bomb was inside a box full to the brim of toys and lego and as such everything from said box is in every corner of the room...may be a better way of me putting it. Not mess as in food, cups and such, but quite literally toys everywhere. Many many many times per day xD Its better when DD is at nursery as son is not so hyper on his own lol

I do feel now I overreacted to everything but it got to me a lot just the thought of someone even considering taking my life away from me. I don't really see them as my kids, they are honestly my life.

Yeah I'm getting a bit weepy now, but thanks for the replies everyone. Even those who were a bit harsh with it...I needed it to see straight

Vik of course none of us would want to lose our children and yes my kids are life too. I think maybe she said things to shake you up a bit but I think it is good you learnt something about yourself and you have just thought about how awful to lose your kids.(Although my understanding is that generally social services don't take away children from parents who are engaging with them, making changes etc.

I also use the phrase bomb has gone off, but I would not use it of a room strewn with toys. My dd's room looks awful most of the time (she is 11) and the floor can be cluttered I can barely get across it! I nag constantly but as it is a bedroom i guess it is not such an issue as a living room where people are 'living' because it is just a bedroom where she sleeps in it etc.

Can I also say that you can't really trust children not to go into a room or space just because you told then not to or because they never have before. My son is almost 6 but we still keep anything that should be out of reach in a cupboard with a child lock.

Vik of course none of us would want to lose our children and yes my kids are life too. I think maybe she said things to shake you up a bit but I think it is good you learnt something about yourself and you have just thought about how awful to lose your kids.(Although my understanding is that generally social services don't take away children from parents who are engaging with them, making changes etc.

I also use the phrase bomb has gone off, but I would not use it of a room strewn with toys. My dd's room looks awful most of the time (she is 11) and the floor can be cluttered I can barely get across it! I nag constantly but as it is a bedroom i guess it is not such an issue as a living room where people are 'living' because it is just a bedroom where she sleeps in it etc.

Can I also say that you can't really trust children not to go into a room or space just because you told then not to or because they never have before. My son is almost 6 but we still keep anything that should be out of reach in a cupboard with a child lock.

Good luck and don't let this worry you in the future, concentrate on getting as healthy as you can and hope your health is better soon. I also hope your MIL will be back to full health and hubby can be back to looking out for all of you. hope your relationship with health visitor will be back again to how it was.

For people saying negative things about health visitors mie were amaizing and really helpful. Helped me get cousnelling when I needed it.

Sorry to hear about this, it's one thing to be lectured to by HVs in their own clinic but another thing entirely in your own home.

I remember mine coming just after my son was born, allegedly to check on his health as he was SFD, but she made a feeble excuse and went to the kitchen to have a good snoop in my fridge and cupboards, then went snooping around looking for his bedroom. Fortunately my MIL is a social worker and had warned me this can happen so I had scoured the place in preparation and hidden away every last bottle of Baileys chocolate liqueur in the house.

My only failing, which neither of us saw coming, was that I'd left a muslin folded widthways on my son's cot sheet so that next time he spat up milk (approx every five minutes back then) we wouldn't need to change the whole thing as I was running out of sheets faster than they could be washed. According to the HV I was dangerously putting him at risk of cot death and she yanked the muslin off before I could even squeak in reply.

We had a bit of a fraught relationship from then on - I remember one particularly epic battle over the nutritional benefits of baby rice - but at least it was fought on the neutral ground of our GPs surgery basement...

Op glad you are feeling calmer and seeing hv perspective a bit more though I agree she could have been more diplomatic.

Getting the backs up of someone who is potentially neglecting/abiding their kids would be counter-productive and she would be remiss in her job if she continued that way. I've had that discussion with some hv in a professional capacity.

To the pp's who said it's ott to worry about the knife and meds - do a couple weeks in a&e in school holidays and say that! As another pp said accidental poisoning is a MAJOR cause of death in young children in this country.

To the pp who said they were LUCKY that the hv in their affluent area seemed unconcerned, if I were to work in that area regarding cp and safeguarding issues I'd be pulling them up! The idea that wealthy/professional families don't neglect/abuse children is outdated and ridiculous

There is a very difficult line to find inbetween being to direct and so bloody airy fairy your clients have no damn clue what you are saying to them.

Ive lost count of the amount of clients over the years who have needed more direct explanations for some incredibly serious conversations containing very important information performed by a safeguarding professional in airy fairy language doing so sets people up for failure means they have no idea what you are requesting they do and is not open and transparent.

It's far better for someone to go on the side of direct than it is going the other way. At least that way the service user stands a fair chance of fixing the problem.sometimes they just go a bit to far on the direct side.

And fwiw ive had many a professional conversation with HV's,teachers and fellow colleagues where ive had to ask them wtf they are jibber jabbering about because nobody else in the room has a clue.

Agreed some waffle on! It is difficult to get the balance right. To that end I also think the op is wrong in expecting a 'friendship' with the hv, she's not a friend she's there as a professional

Aldalas2. Legally their role is to support families in relation to child development until the child is 5, at which point their responsibilities transfer to the school nursing system if children remain in the state system.

HVs are statutorily advised to offer the service. No family is legally obliged to accept it.

HVs are only entitled to enter a home with a court order which they would have to obtain via social services and would need evidence to obtain it.

The service I received with ds1 was so unacceptably poor I agreed, as part if a formal complaint, that I would never engage again with the hv service. When further children were born I remember remember confirming again via the GP that I would nit be engaging. My GP was aware of the reasons why I would not engage again. GP's are shy of parents disengaging because they think they will be innundated with questions about baby care.

After my first child I had six community midwives and three students trail through my house in ten days offering contradictory advice, coming hours after they advised, preventing sleep for me and mire importantly providing such incompetent clinical advice that I became ill. When I had subsequent children I wrote to the local director of midwives and noted that I would accept visits from no more than two midwives, even if that meant fewer visits, and that I would not accept students into the house again.

The first time I was overwhelmed with people who frankly were rude and discourteous on occasion, not particularly competent and who didn't seem to understand that first time mothers can be vulnerable. They were fixated on the fact that our home was clean, tidy, and expensive. Like the reverse, none of their business - it's a shame they weren't a little more fixated on the underlying infection I was developing or in providing continuity of care.

Second and third time round it was much better.

The HV's who have posted and who are upset by people's opinions, can you tell us please why the service isn't delivered more transparently and honestly with clear communication about your assessments and the level of service a family can expect. Why I a mother ever instructed to attend a clinic for example? My HV told me she expected me to attend a clinic to have the baby weighed in two weeks time. I have never understood why she didn't offer this as an option available if I wanted it. If I am instructed I have to do something then it is only reasonable to explain why and to provide an appointment is it not? She had no right to give this instruction just as she had no right to arrive on my doorstep at 9am when I had a newborn in the absence of an appointment to do so.

I think it's a shame the service still lacks so much clarity. Why. Can one of the HVs explain that please? Why is there nit an introductory letter setting out your rights and responsibilities at the start. My HV could nit satisfactorily explain the reason fir her unannounced visit and waffled on telling me it was her role to make sure my baby was immunised and developed speech, etc.

However we get away with doing exactly what we like because we are seen as low risk.

You're not seen as low risk - from what you've posted you are low risk. You have plenty of money, buy in help when you need it, your partner can take time off work to care for children. Unless there is substance misuse or domestic abuse I can't see why you'd think you would be perceived as anything but low risk.

The only thing you might come onto the radar for would be poor school attendance, but only if it dipped below your school threshold for involvement from education welfare.

I don't for a second believe these medical professionals are entitled to enter your property without your permission or handle you or your children.

The OP said these were scheduled appointments so no-one is entering her home without her permission.

There are of course limits to what HVs can do without your consent, but I think a HV might understandably be concerned if someone presented as hostile as you for no reason, when they are trying to offer help. Declining politely is always advisable. They are not trying to abduct your baby.

I am not hostile thanks

Really? Then why this?:

This time I am banning them all.
They can do one.