To refuse to speak to health visitor..

[Vickyyyy]

I know this is a controversial subject to begin with but I am prepared to be flamed if it happens

I suffer health issues. I am in a massive amount of pain a lot of the time, for hours and hours at a time. I am on strong pain meds to help but even the likes of oxycodone don't take it away completely. I had an operation a few months back to try and fix this pain and unfortunately the operation went wrong leaving me in more pain than ever before. I do struggle and am prepared to admit this. I can push myself to do things through the pain..doing so make me a LOT more ill later in the day though. My partner is pretty much my fulltime carer right now. The pain is at its worst on a nighttime, especially if I have pushed myself through the day, and it is as of yet undiagnosed, though my physio appointments start next month which should hopefully shine a bit of light on what the actual issue is...Anyway...

Last week, the health visitor appeared out of nowhere, as she always does, no phonecall to say she is coming or anything...and usually around 9/10am when sometimes I am still sorting kids breakfast, bath, dressed routine. Seemingly no reason for visit except for weighing (nearly) 2 year old. Fine. 10 mins and she goes. Everything seems fine. Asks where Dh is, I explain that his mother has taken ill and he is helping her in her home for a few hours.

The next day another unarranged visit. Kids have just went off it, sitting room looks like a bomb has hit it as every toy is on the floor. Yes, maybe I should have better control of my kids and make them sit quietly, but I will NEVER be that mum. I prefer them to have fun, they don't behave like this out of the house, and really, what harm does it do if they go wild for an hour or so? Anyway, health visitor comes in and immediately starts ranting about 'home conditions' that she noticed on her visit the day before. When pressed, it seems the issue was a knife on the kitchen bench, medication on the bench and another bench that had a tea stain on it. And some rubbish outside. I agree there should not have been a knife (was used for cutting up fruit..I don't like 2 year old having whole pears and such so I cut them) or medication (had taken it an hour or so prior to visit, was not my strong medication but I guess thats not the point) out on the bench...but the kids don't go in the kitchen alone so I don't see it as a massive issue or anything. The rubbish..I am awaiting the council collection of, its things like our old cot and cooker (replaced recently) and packaging that the new ones came in. Despite paying 20 quid for collection, apparently the first available date for pickup is 27th may...

So, this health visitor proceeds to spend half an hour telling me pretty much how useless I am. I have gone over what she said and no I am not overreacting. 'You are not the only person with 2 young kids' 'other people manage to watch toddlers and clean at the same time, why can't you' and such. This is after she already knows my health issues make a lot of things a huge problem for me at the moment. Told me Dh should not be spending so much time with his (ill) mother if I need help at home and its 'clear' I am not coping with the kids when hes not here. This horrific visit ended on the note of her saying if I don't follow her checklist exactly, she may have to call child protection! For the sake of a bit of mess..really? I will always favour letting the kids have fun over obsessive cleaning. I will always favour actually playing with the kids over doing a few dishes right now that could be left until the kdis are asleep...is this..unusual? I always thought this would be how most saw things.

So I was slightly hysterical at this point but trying to keep it together so as not to scare the kids. I told DH when he returned home and he said that he would deal with it next time she comes. But I don't want to see her at all anymore. I have seen a very cruel side of her. I am not proposing cutting off contact with the kids, as hubby is willing to deal with further 'appointments' (and he says there will be appointments, not unannounced visits as it has been for months). I just don't want to be there when she is. I am worried I may get a 'black mark' and be marked as a problem or something due to me unwillingness to be made to feel like dirt on the bottom of someones shoe. I don't know what I expect out of this thread tbh..its just good to get it all out. I don't understand whats gone wrong, she has been lovely at all other visits (though hubby was there for others, last week he spent a lot of time with him mother who is ill). I don't know if she was just having a bad day, if she really does think I am a shit mum, if she is bullying me for fun or something..if shes trying to motivate me top get better, which would be lovely if it was that easy...or what

(Checklist is things like clean kitchen completely. Get rid of rubbish outside and that, easy to follow and already done but thats not the point.)

Yes - it's unbelievable how much mess kids can make in no time at all!

@MrsBobDylan

No issues previously. She was visiting to keep an eye on DDs speech. Thinking about it though after my operation she does seem to have been visiting more often than she did before, so possibly shes wanting to keep an eye on my condition too, though its never been mentioned besides her always asking how I have been managing medical wise everytime she sees me

Cross post - she doesn't need to visit that frequently for speech delay. She just needs to refer your DD to the appropriate services.

I banned one of my HVs from the house as she was horribly rude. It was incredibly satisfying

Christ, if she's in such a flap about those small things she'd have a conniption walking into my house right now. It's such a state I'd be body blocking her from getting over the threshold!

Don't let it phase you, OP. I would:

1. Call the doctors or wherever it is she is based and request a different HV for the future, and explain your reasons why. I would also strongly consider making a complaint against the woman. HV's are there for support, not to make you feel dreadful. She's full of her own piss and importance and knowing your medical problems only makes her behaviour worse, imho.

1. Make it very clear that random visits need to stop as they disrupt your day and they won't be getting in without an appointment in the future.

1. Make sure DH is with you next time.

Snooping? More likely she's had a concern for a while. Not just hanging around in a bush outside waiting for an otherwise perfect family to make a slip up.

OP, were you dressed yourself? As in, clean clothes, ready to start the day? How about the DC? Is the house messy and clean, or dirt underneath the mess? Health visitors are busy, if she's making repeat visits she's concerned and if your full time carer is away and the house is in an unsafe, dirty state and the kids are running riot and not dressed at 10AM, that might be why. She came back the day after to see if it was just a bad morning or a pattern.obviously she thinks it's a pattern.

It may stick in your craw because she has told you to,but you should tidy your house. Knives and medication in reach of Kurds and serious mess are all warning signs for social services for a reason.

If you have concerns about your DD you can see your GP and take her out of the equation altogether.

Sorry things are so tough for you at the moment.

Kurds? Meant kids!

Kids were dressed as was I. Only once have kids not been dressed when she came and that was because they slept unusually late and she arrived earlier than she normally does so they were just eating breakfast when she turned up

(they eat breakfast in their jammies unless there is some reason they need changed immediately, then teeth cleaned and such and dressed...just incase I do this oddly too)

Also place is spotless now, except a few toys on sitting room floor which will be away before bed. But back out again by 8am no doubt Everything she had put on this list thing was done by that night, was done within a few hours of hubby getting back from his mothers..as it would have been even without the list. Cot and such outside is still outside though..as council wont pick it up yet but I have a ref number off them so she can check if she likes.

First of all, do not not allow her to come across your threshold any more. She has no right. Do not be frightened of her. You have nothing to worry about. Take your concerns regarding DDs speech to your GP. Don't engage with her any further. If you aren't strong enough to tell her not to visit, tell her to make an appointment and make sure you have someone with you that can take notes and witness her dreadful behaviour.

You poor thing !!!!!! Why is she coming to your house ?!!? You don't need to engage with her at your house ! Call the team to report her & ask for a different HV. This is not her role. Again I am sorry you have had to go through this. My dishes live in or near the sink or in the dish washer. I am a single SAHM to a very demanding toddler who screams whenever i put washing up gloves on. Your HV can suck it. Better happy children than a tidy house...isn't that a proverb??? Or pick two : "Happy kids, tidy house or sanity" haha maybe I've got that saying wrong..but Jesus...what a tool/bully she sounds like.

....and keep your doors locked so she can't walk in.

Omg. What an awful HV you have. I would consider raising a complaint, the HV are there to provide guidance and ensure your child is developing properly and offer advice on issues you are encountering. Not critic your cleaning etc.

Mine would never make unexpected visits, especially they next day after visiting, nor do they comment on the bits and bobs that need tidying or the toys that are all over the floor. Children make mess. Part and parcel of being a parent.

Also she has mentioned before how my little boy is 'unusually' happy. Which apparently means hes nearly always laughing when she sees him and he is so affectionate even when he first met her he was straight over giving her a hug. Daughter is shy and won't even speak to her still which I think concerns her but daughter is not one to even wave back at someone she doesn't know, let alone talk to them.

I may be getting really defensive, but I really don't see how its got to this stage given everything has been fine and it was a one off thats been twisted into something really awful

I've witnessed a family being visited by the police, where there where 3 DC, no food, or heating, animal faeces everywhere, urine stained mattresses and cannabis smoking parents. Social Services stated that this didn't meet their " threshold for intervention" so a few dishes in a sink and toys everywhere etc will hardly raise an eyebrow.

I would stop the visits, I did after a hv was rude to me when DD was 4 months old. Ds1 and 2 have never seen a hv ever. I have no time for them, if my children need anything we see the gp.
Ds2 has speech therapy and it was organised through a self referral and he doesn't get checked up on by anyone other than the speech therapist

@ ToadsforJustice

Thats actually disgusting. If thats not enough for intervention then what is? I do know deep down that if she did actually go through with her random threat there wouldn't be any issues with SS. Its just upsetting to even have it brought up for the sake of (what I view as..) little things. Yes I do accept that the medication and such wasn't safe. But its a one off. If I was leaving bottles of oxycodone lying round everyday I would understand it. But once, on the kitchen bench, a kitchen the kids don't go into...I just think its OTT

I think I'm going to let OH deal with the next visit, he can let her know how much she upset me and see if he can get to the root of what her actual problem is, then go from there. If shes awful with him too then we will be changing HV to someone more..helpful.

Thanks for the replies.

Health visitors should do bthe thing more for speech then make a referral. They are not trained in this area so she has no reason to revisit. I would ask for no further visits and report to head of department. Also they are a regulated profession so feel free to mention that u won't hesitate to contact the NMC if you feel intimidated again x

Refuse drop in visits and only have arranged ones at a time that suits you.....not straight after brekkie, likes she is currently doing.
She sounds awful although I think that by refusing visits altogether, might make her go against you even more.

She should perhaps instead of criticising you, be signposting you to Home Start to offer some help with the kids whilst you have some you time etc. You're in chronic pain and she treats you like that....id be fuming.

Officially, you don't have to even see a health visitor but guessing she might make a point of making things tricky for you if you refuse.
You can always ask to see a different one.

Good luck. You sound like a lovely mum who just has a lot on her plate with illness and the worry that comes with that.

f I was leaving bottles of oxycodone lying round everyday I would understand it. But once, on the kitchen bench, a kitchen the kids don't go into...I just think its OTT

I'm sorry you were so upset at a time when you feel vulnerable OP, but leaving drugs around is incredibly dangerous. It is very naive to rely on kids not going into a room. Your HV had a duty to act.

And, though I have met many HVs, good and bad, I have never met one who got upset about a tea stain. I'm thinking that there was a bit more too it than that.

Totally understand why you felt defensive but am at all the posters rushing to slag your HV off with only one side of the story. No wonder no one wants to work in child protection. If you only act when you know a child has been harmed, it is too late. You have to act on concerns - even if they turn out to be unjustified - to prevent harm.

It sounds like your HV is about to call Social Services on you, if you refuse to have HV then that will probably mean a referral to social services.

This next bit is in no way an accusation, more a possible explanation as to what the HV is trying to express.

Lack of boundaries in a child, lack of wariness and unusual willingness to have physical contact with strangers CAN in some occasions (obviously not all) be a flag for abuse. As can being overly withdrawn.

I am really really not suggesting that your dc are at risk, just more that it's quite easy to join the dots very wrongly, if there are enough dots hanging about.

I do think you need to be a bit careful here. Get your DH involved, as well of, not instead of, you, make sure he is calm and polite and both of you try to get to the bottom of what is going on. because she has obviously seen some kind of pattern, and you withdrawing contact feeds into that pattern. If you talk to her, address her concerns and keep a good working relationship, the pattern falls apart.

To me it sounds as if she has concerns for your children's welfare. Whether these are valid or not is another matter. Her communication style has got your back up, but sometimes you do have to raise things that the other person might not like to hear. She might refer you to SS but if your house is as you describe then as others have said you won't meet the threshold. What's her background? I wonder how much of your condition she actually understands in real terms, what exactly you can and can't do.

Because she has very little or no power of her own, she can only threaten vulnerable women with Social Services. She sounds like a bully on a power trip. She cannot force you to tidy up or clean with a threat of "child protection". Safeguarding is everyone's responsibly and threatening a referral is not the way to help anyone.

I do understand that leaving drugs around is dangerous. I understand why she felt the need to mention it. I don't understand why it had to be like that though, especially with it being a one off.

Slightly OT but my strong meds are always kept in the upper cupboard in the kitchen. She is not to know this, it was cyclizine that was on the bench. I take it to stop myself feeling sick after my painkillers. I did try to explain this at the time but I didn't get much chance to talk tbh. I know it makes little difference WHAT drugs they were in actuality, but I think there is a slightly difference between antisickness meds and morphine.

I don't know why the tea on the bench was brought up tbh, as I know thats not an issue but that was what she said to me :S