"wouldn't you be embarrassed to PAY someone else clean up after you?"

[schrodcat]

Seething. SEETHING. I proposed getting a cleaner because I honestly think we're going to end up divorced if he doesn't start pulling his weight. He objected in the strongest possible terms and said "wouldn't you be embarrassed to pay someone else to clean up after you?".

But he is not embarrassed for me to do it, even when I got a weird dermatitis condition on my hand from the rubber gloves and my fingers kept bleeding. I am not kidding. I know that sounds Dickensian.

FFS.

Unless you have a cleaner who moves in and follows your husband around the house with a jcloth, you are not going to live in a clean house. Wit the best will in the world, a cleaner can only do so much. Your h needs to pick up after himself and not live like a complete fucking slob. If he never wipes crumbs off the worktops etc, your house will look like a tip half an hour after the cleaer leaves!

As for getting a secret cleaner. No! What will that do to address the inherently shitty attitude your h has towards you?

To the poster who does nothing, married to a man who does nothing and teaching her kids to do nothing, you had better hope you can always afford the cleaner! To me, it is a matter of basic self respect that I clear up after myself. Nothing against employing someone to do certain housework tasks but I would be embarrassed if a cleaner was scrubbing my skiddy loo or washing the bath after me. There are some things that you should be doing for yourself.

Stop doing anything for him. Don't do his laundry (he will notice when he runs out of underwear, surely?). Don't cook for him. If he asks why, tell him there's only so many hours in the day and you were cleaning.

But as everyone else is saying, this goes deeper than a cleaner/cleaning issue.

is the cleaner issue and his mess really just the tip of a slippery iceberg OP ?

if you really do hate him, and can see that you didnt really know him or his habits well enough before you married him , can you see yourself growing old happily with him ?

"wouldn't you be embarrassed to pay someone else to clean up after you?".

"I wouldn't need to pay someone to clean up after YOU if you acted like a functioning adult"

Aside from his unacceptable attitude, there's nothing wrong with paying a cleaner. My house is never filthy, but I have neither the time, the patience nor the inclination to keep it fully clean - my cleaner on the other hand is paid very well to do it for me.

She earns a good living (she is really good and references have ensured as many hours/houses as she wants), I have a sparkling house, everyone's a winner.

It always bugs me when people have a problem with the hiring of cleaners. Every single public space your husband has ever been in, every pub, restaurant and hotel he has ever frequented, every school and workplace he has ever attended have HIRED A CLEANER TO CLEAN UP AFTER HIM! So WTF is his problem?!

in our house we generally tidy things away as we go, if you take stuff out to make a sandwich you put the stuff away once your done and wipe up. we don't leave stuff lying about in the house and generally put it away, like put towels back on the towel rail in the bathroom once you have dried yourself or if we drop something on the floor whilst making the tea we would sweep up or wipe it up. we don't hoover every day, wash floors every day or wash the shower/toilet down every day though. when it comes to doing the cleaning though its not hard because there isn't really anything lying about.

if its only you, your DH and your DC how much mess can be left lying about? surely you all tidy away after yourself?

My Dh felt the same way about having a cleaner at first (though he didn't phrase it in quite such an unfortunate way). His thing was 'what kind of grown-ups are we if we can't manage this ourselves?'. I felt it was important to accept that we were fairly untidy grown-ups with differing priorities about what a house needed in order to be liveable-in. We got a cleaner. Best thing we ever did.

I don't think it's abnormal to hate your partner a little bit sometimes. It's only ever on MN that I encounter people whose partners do precisely 50% of everything, exactly the right way, with a smile on their face and a song in their heart. Every co-habiting person I know IRL (male, female, straight, gay, etc) has various long-running irritations and resentments about division of labour. If this is incompatible with a loving relationship we're all doomed.

People on here are so quick to suggest you LTB!
It's completely ok to feel hatred/anger towards your DH occasionally. No one can irritate me as much as my DH does at times but that's because I don't care as much about anyone else. As long as you don't hate him all the time I think that's just a normal part of a relationship.
And yes get a cleaner. He'll soon change his mind when he sees what a difference it makes to you.

"wouldn't you be embarrassed to pay someone else to clean up after you?".

Why would I be ? You're not embarrassed to let me clean up after you for nothing.

I think the people saying they never hate their partner aren't saying they are never irritated/annoyed by them but there's a difference between that/hating behaviour and hating the person.

I'm divorced but have several happily married friends and family and they would never say they hated their partners but have said 'it drives me nuts when they do x y z'

Op am I right in thinking he wears one work outfit all week? For what I assume is a manual job? Yuk!

PLUS you have a dc and something nobody's mentioned yet is the role model they're getting both in terms of adult responsibility and misogyny!

Tell him to shape up or ship out!

Lister - why DOES he still have a wife?

"His starting point about cleaning, you see, is that my standards are too high and I am making a rod for my own back."

My ex was like this. I ended up doing just about everything. When the relationship broke down (and the weight of the work was a factor) it was like I was released from servitude!

My DH has a VERY full on, VERY full-time job and would get up even if he had flu to help me with the housework if I asked (of course, I wouldn't). It CAN be so, so much more equal and it's wonderful when it is, because you don't carry the burden of having to think about and organise absolutely everything on your own.

Please do have a think about whether you might not be better off without this person in your life. I wasted well over a decade with someone like this, and I really, really regret that now.

Well then what's the point of me having a wife
Such a risky thing for a man to say....it should prompt said wife to ask 'what's the point of me having a husband'

If you have to get a secret cleaner, you need a divorce.

OP I can't get over your DH's attitude. You really have to get some help or he has to go or he does his fair share. No way should you be cleaning up after another adult, unless you are happy with the division of labour. I did do all the cleaning and washing, but DH did the food shopping, cooking and most of the clearing plus other things. It was fair but very busy. We did regularly talk about who did what, and this helped keep things harmonious.

We now have help five days a week and it has changed our lives. The house is calm and we both have plenty of time to relax in the evenings. If you can afford it and can find someone you trust go for it.

Listerscat . Are you still with this pathetic twat?

Having read through this post, there are things I am wondering which I guess I'll just come out and ask. First, you say that your husband is a freeloader, that he doesn't do anything, but you did state he goes to work. Another poster also said their SO did nothing after their DC was born, except get up, go to the gym, go to work, come home, eat food, bath, and bed.

I'm just wondering, so, let's say you have two people: mum & dad. You've just had a child, and although either could go back to work/stay home, let's say that dad goes back to work and mum stays home.

So if the schedules look like this:

1. both wake up in the morning
2. dad goes to work, mum sorts out baby
3. dad is at work, mum is looking after baby, looking after house
4. dad comes home, both mum & dad look after baby
5. both go to bed

Would you not say that in this situation, the dad going to work is equal to the mum making the home and looking after the baby?

Now, I'm not saying that dad doesn't have to do any parenting, he should do equal parenting AT LEAST while home. I'm not saying he shouldn't wash up after himself, maybe put a wash on in the evening, or help out cleaning at weekend. But on a weekday, when he's been out from 7.30 til 18.00 working, wouldn't it be unfair if he comes home and is asked to then help clean 50:50, and to find out that mum has not done cleaning during the day, but maybe has just sat on the sofa with baby?

I know that in real life, things aren't very often this clear cut, and that probably dad comes home and leaves dirty pots, expects everything to be done and for him not to lift a finger. That's not what I'm saying.

What I'm asking is -- should mum be replacing "work" with something equal to what dad is doing, in terms of effort?

Disclaimer: SO & I don't have this problem because we have a common understanding. If I'm working from home, then I'm working, to pay bills, so she won't ask me to stop working and help clean. Sometimes I do that anyway because I'm cool like that, but there is an understanding. Clean up after yourself, have pride in your home, and make sure everyone understands and ACCEPTS what responsibilities they have.

OP: rather than jumping right to a divorce, have you tried communicating with your husband? Don't go at it from a defensive point of view. You don't want him to put up his walls. You want full duplex communication, and your goal isn't to get him to do a load of jobs!! Your goal should be for you both to be happy.

You: can we talk? I'm not happy and I need your help to be happy again
SO: sure, what's up? are you ok?
You: yeah but I'm just so fed up. I need help with the house and I'm feeling overwhelmed. I know you're tired from work and don't want to help out, and that's why I suggested a cleaner. I can't manage it all on my own.
SO: I'm sorry that you're feeling overwhelmed. I didn't realise that when you suggested a cleaner.
You: if we can get a cleaner to at least help me, I'll be a billion times happier. It would mean a lot to me. Can we afford it?
SO: we can make it work. Sorry that you're feeling overwhelmed.
You: that's ok, thanks for understanding. I'll speak to AT LEAST THREE cleaning companies to get the best quote for the job.
SO: great, that sounds like a financially sound way to approach this.

SO: What's for tea?

It's not embarrassing when you're physically unable to do it. It's not a luxury for everyone.

But on a weekday, when he's been out from 7.30 til 18.00 working, wouldn't it be unfair if he comes home and is asked to then help clean 50:50, and to find out that mum has not done cleaning during the day, but maybe has just sat on the sofa with baby?

KeyboardDad do you actually have a baby? If so, have you spent much time with him/her? Looking after a baby usually involves a lot more than just "sitting on the sofa". Also babies wake up in the night - if the mother has been up more than the father in the night then she can't be expected to achieve as much in the day, surely? There are exceptions - there are a few "dream babies" that sleep perfectly at night, feed and nap easily and are happy to play on their playmat for hours. In those circumstances yes, the mother could get a lot of housework done. Unfortunately those babies are very rare.

No one is saying that those who are physically unable to do housework should feel bad about hiring a cleaner. The OPs h is physically capable of wiping up if he drops crumbs all over the work top though. Most people can manage the basic stuff which makes the environment nicer for the other people they live with.

Nothing wrong with hiring a cleaner, paying them well and treating them like a human being. EVERYTHING wrong and bloody disrespectful with hiring a cleaner and expecting them to clean skiddy loos and other similar things. No one should have to do this, cleaners are human beings too. Use a toilet brush ffs. A decent person/couple will make sure that the house is in a fit state for the cleaner coming in. If anyone seriously leaves a skiddy loo for the cleaner, I hope the cleaner has enough other clients to be able to tell the filthy, scummy client to eff off.

I am back to work this week after mat leave and I am going to get a secret cleaner. DH wouldn't approve but he also won't do anything!

Keyboard, you're talking such guff.

Having a baby doesn't just involve sitting on the sofa with them.

should mum be replacing "work" with something equal to what dad is doing, in terms of effort?

Do you not think that looking after children and babies counts as work, then? Or effort, or whatever you want to call meaningful and valuable activity?

but maybe has just sat on the sofa with baby?

I don't have children but even I found this hysterical in its naivete.

Even I know that what can appear (to a selfish person) to be sitting on a sofa with the baby all day can be because mmmm off the top of my head

Parent was up with unhappy non sleeping baby all night and is shattered
Parent has been trying to feed baby all day
Baby is cluster feeding
Parent and or baby is poorly

Even I know that there are some babies and toddlers that can not be left; that need a high level of interaction and surely as a good parent the well being of the child is more important that who cleans the bathroom.............

minipie: actually, we have our first due in about 10 weeks, and I plan to put in a fair share of effort. Night feeds? Sure. Help with cleaning, sure! In fact I've even switched jobs so that I'll work completely remotely, that way I'll always be home with my new family, able to work around the little one, and make sure my SO never feels overwhelmed and alone.

But that's not the point.

The question I asked is how you and others feel about the "work" and how much effort that really counts for, if you catch my meaning. If I came home from work and was then expected to do some housework, having had nothing at all done during the day, then I'd have a problem. The problem isn't doing the housework (maintenance is key), it's the expectation. It's the treating of work like it doesn't take up effort. I spend 10 hours a day, working so f---ing hard, for the future of my family. I'm 64,000% committed to providing, so I expect the same commitment from my SO. Everyone has a job, they're just sometimes different.

Do you feel like watching the little one all day is itself a job where nothing else can be done? My mum had six of us, and maintained a house, without a fella around to look after her. Just saying!

Ok, well now we're getting somewhere, aren't we? I may be "talking guff" but I've got you talking, haven't I? My questions are meant to draw out your thoughts so that we can discuss them, instead of just pitch forking.

• Parent was up with unhappy non sleeping baby all night and is shattered
• Parent has been trying to feed baby all day
• Baby is cluster feeding
• Parent and or baby is poorly

These are all valid reasons for not having done the housework, for example. But let's say that baby slept ok, baby fed fine, baby was happy to be lay on his play mat, or have a little nap, but mum didn't do the washing up or put a wash on, then surely that would be unfair?

Do you not think that looking after children and babies counts as work, then?

Definitely. I think that parenting is one of, if not the, most important things in life. But I also think that you can do other things in between. Baby has a nap, you can put a wash on before catching 30 yourself. Baby is happy lay on his play mat, well you can quickly do the washing up. If baby is fine and you think that you can just sit there with him all day and not do chores in between, then you're not using your time efficiently.