To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
3. She is completely two faced
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.

What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

My DC school did help with behaviour at home.

My dd was refusing to go to bed and sleep till pass 10-11pm which meant she was tired in school.

I went and spoke to her teacher. The teacher then did a story time about how important it is to go to sleep as its just as important as eating the right foods ect.

Oh FFS. What is it about AIBU? Does it require posters to undergo a radical personality change to post here?

Every time I read in this forum it is so bloody self-righteous and smug and yet I see the same posters in other forums behaving in a decent manner.

It's like the school playground in here.

If this had been posted in a different part of the Talk forum there's not be so much knee-jerk judgement and bickering.

If you come back, OP, I hope you get it sorted OWOTO, but you've made a good start.

Just remember, you can only control your actions and not those of the school staff - if your gut instinct tells you a few months down the line that you've done everything that you can and they STILL carry on with the same repetitive 'discipline' techniques you can safely assume they are the definition of insanity and consider moving schools (or home educating).

I'd also consider asking to have this thread moved to the SEN board - you may get some really useful advice there

I'm a little disheartened by how many people (including teachers) think the answer is more discipline and blaming the parent rather than identifying the cause, addressing those issues, teaching better behaviours and positive reinforcement of the behaviours you want to encourage.

Ditto

Please change your son's school. Talk to the headteacher of whichever school you apply to and admit you have lost control of your son's behaviour and feel he needs a fresh start. And ask for professional help with behaviour and discipline. Your son has 'overexcitabiliy' and you need help to help him. You've got yourself locked into a downward spiral where everybody is unhappy. Especially your wayward son.

I'm another who can't get over the posters who cba to read the thread and are still so keen to bellow out their pov that they haven't had the basic manners to see if the thread has moved on and the OP position modified.

I think that as a mother, if another parent was called in over the behavior of their child I would be upset if my child was discussed. I don't feel that discussing the behavior of another child had anything to do with the intention of the teacher, and that was her point in bringing your attentions back to your own child. Also, continually dealing with disruption in class puts everyone back, that teacher studied for years to do her job and she must get very frustrated when parents don't apriciate her efforts or support her at home. That being said a teacher isn't super human and some children are very sneaky in causing another to get in trouble, especially if your child is more openly responsive when provoked. Overall good luck with it x

read the thread before jumping in

I can imagine it must have been quite shocking and hurtful for you to hear yourself and your son being spoken about in that way. Whilst I am not excusing what was said, it was said in a private conversation, by someone who was frustrated with having to speak with you again about your sons bad behaviour.

I work in a school, in one of the classes I work in there is a child who sounds very similar to your DS. This child is constantly disruptive, rude, baits other children during lessons amongst other things. This behaviour isnt fair as it disrupts the lesson, as you find yourself dealing with this child and the disruption in his wake. Therefore the other children in the class suffer, their learning suffers, and by the end of the lesson they have probably done half of the work they should have, and perhaps havent understood thoroughly. All because your energy is being directed towards a child who constantly demands attention via their negative behaviour.

This childs parents have also been brought in to speak with the head about the bad behaviour, but nothing changes. This child never accepts responsibility for their behaviour, but is very quick to complain if another child upsets him. From the other side of the fence it does feel as if there is something lacking in the parenting which makes the child feel entitled to constantly behave badly, without a thought about the effect his actions have on the other children and also himself.

I also have a child about this age. If I was spoken to by the head about bad behaviour, I would be mortified, and would be making it crystal clear to my child if there were further instances then there would be consequences.

I am a teacher and am amazed at the supportive responses for teachers on here. It's always horrible to have to tell parents their child has been in trouble. As a parent I feel their embarrassment and try to be as discreet as possible. The vast majority of parents support the school and, when they do, the child's behaviour usually improves too as home and school work together. I do think the child's teacher needs to choose a more private place to vent her feelings though. We should, after all,be discreet and professional. If my child behaved badly at school, he sees my displeasure and knows I will not tolerate it, whether or not he (or I) like the teacher personally. If you let your child get away with this then they will always have a bad attitude to their teachers... And ultimately, their boss!

I feel bad for the OP to have overheard this, but definitely the child's behaviour needs to be addressed. Actually I agree with her that children shouldn't be punished again at home if they have already been punished at school. But once the school start calling in the parents I think that is slightly different, clearly the behaviour needs to be changed and it can only work if school and home pull together. But while OP needs to do more sanctioning, she is surely right to try and talk to him and understand what's going on. If the other children are constantly winding him up this sounds bad as well, bullying really. But a disruptive child can create a really unpleasant atmosphere for everyone else in the class. I hope that in this situation teacher and Mum can get over their current relationship and work together constructively. If not, at least it is close to the end of the year, and perhaps a fresh start with a new teacher in September will help.

I don't think an 8 year old should b swearing but does he act like this at home or just in school? I think the behaviour of the teachers both to your face & what u weren't supposed to hear should not be allowed and I don't think it is ... If you r teaming up with the school on diciplining and it's not improving then u both try something else whilst finding out what's the cause, u don't roll eyes and call children names ... They r supposed to be role models. I would tell the head teacher & say if something doesn't improve you are seeking help from ofsted or relevant professional agencies. .... And then move schools if it stays the same who knows it may do him good.

Must have been very satisfying to remind her anyone could have been listening, congratulations on getting somewhere with your son.

Wow, please can someone forward this to our esteemed Prime Minister, Nicky Morgan and Nick Gibb so they can understand what teachers have to put up with! The lack of respect from both pupils and parents is astonishing, demoralising and depressing. Thank you to all those who posted supportive comments about teachers .

Sorry OP you overheard that but venting is completely normal and talking about kids and frustrating situations does not transfer to classroom. We are professionals and can put our feelings aside in front of the children. After all, they are just children and we wouldn't do the job if we didn't love them - there's not much else to recommend it!

I am curious as to what you would have said if a teacher came in saying they were overheard calling a kid a little shit

Sadly, the behaviour of the child was well known enough for the other teacher to know exactly who his teacher was talking about.

Probably not by other teachers though, given the context of two colleagues alone in the classroom until a roving parent came back in unexpectedly.
Blowing off steam with someone who can be trusted to understand the stress and not repeat anything is a common occurrence. The teacher was unfortunate that she hadn't locked her door and was speaking clearly rather than in a whisper. But then, she thought she was secure.
I remember when staff rooms stopped being teacher-only zones, and a lot of teachers got caught out by support staff and volunteers.

YABU I'd be absolutely furious with my son would wipe the floor with him and I'd thank this teacher for doing all she could to try to help him. But this attitude is probably why I have a very well behaved son and you don't. ...

Have you RTFT caroline, or did you just have a desperate need to post something smug and spiteful?

My DC swears at school. You know where he learned it? From the little sh*t in class who goes round shouting the words at the other kids. The teacher had to talk to all the other parents for a reason - to explain that there's nothing they can do about the child who swears and hits the other kids. He's still doing it, so I guess the parents didn't stop him. The teacher has quit.

Well said TheSolitary

I cannot believe the tone of this thread. The fact is that this should be a disciplinary issue (for the teachers, not the son). They may well have the right to voice their views in private, but they were in their place of work, speaking during the undertaking of their professional duties. I am shocked that anybody thinks it acceptable that for a teacher to refer to a student in these terms. If this were another workplace and AlarmBells had overheard a conversation where a line manager referred to a colleague in these terms, there would be no doubt that this would be bullying and harassment. There is no excusing it. Teachers should not be exempted from the professional standards that others are held to.

AlarmBells - take 'em to the cleaners. Teachers with such little regard for professional standards should not be teaching in our schools. And, you were not evesdropping, which would imply intent. You overheard something by accident. The indiscretion is all theirs.

The fact is that this should be a disciplinary issue (for the teachers, not the son). They may well have the right to voice their views in private, but they were in their place of work, speaking during the undertaking of their professional duties.

I think you'll find that this means there is nowhere a teacher could ever vent.

The very first thread that brought me to MN was link on TES to a discussion where MNers were sounding off at the very idea of a teacher saying what they they thought in the staffroom. Not even a RL event, just the idea of it was unacceptable.