To be furious with this teacher.

[AlarmBells]

Sorry this is a bit long but I need a rant!

So, but of background, ds who's 8 has had a difficult relationship with school. We've been in a few times to talk about behaviour. (Attitude, talking back, arguing in class)

Every time we've been in I've tried my best to be supportive. I don't agree with punishing children twice for offenses, but I have a stern talk with him when we get home and we talk about what's triggering it, and how me and the teacher can help him.

We were called in again today, another frustrating session. Apparently DS swore and shouted at a boy in class, who (and the teacher admitted it) had been annoying him by sticking his tongue out and making noises at him.

She says he'she's often rude and talks back consistently...he says the other kids in class are always annoying him. I asked what was being done about that and teacher smiled patronisingly, rolled her eyes and said she's had a word with the parents and the children. She then turned to DS and said 'we are talking about YOUR behaviour though' with another smirk.

Anyway, we left, I again promised to talk to DS when home. She saw us to the door. However when she turned back I realised we'd forgotten his book bag, so I caught door as it was closing and nipped back in (DS stayed outside).

I was just outside the class room and heard this exchange.

' Do you have a brick wall I can bag my head against'
'Is it xxxxx again?'
'Oh God, he's just so rude! And his mum thinks he sh*ts gold, that's the problem! He just gets home and whines to mummy he's being picked on and she laps up every word! Funny how he only does that when he gets a bollocking. Little shit'
'What are you going to do?'
'She sounds like she's making screechy sound from psycho, they laugh'.

I quickly and quietly get out, but I'm still fuming. Totally unprofessional, yes? I know they thought I was out the building, but still. I now know a few things:

1. She has talked about my son like this before.
   
2. she refers to children as 'little shits'
   
3. She is completely two faced
   
4. she has no regards for ds's feelings during all this.
   
   What's my next move? Feeling distraught. May email head tonight/ tommorow morning.

[Bugsylugs]

Have to admit I haven't read it all.
I read this differently to many if what op has said is right If he reacts to others constantly trying to annoy him that's where the issue lies. His reactions are to others incorrect behaviour.
Sometimes it is parents being precious sometimes it is that the schools have missed how awful others are to a child until the child reacts and then the child being taunted is to blame.
Like sibs the one who shouts loudest may actually be the one in the wrong.
Get it wrong now and it is years of trying to sort.
Private conversation in a public place well.....

[Bugsylugs]

Staff room is a ' private place ' in a school as far as I am concerned

[echt]

Staff room is a ' private place ' in a school as far as I am concerned

I agree. It ought to be, but it isn't in many schools. Often, your classroom is your safest place.

[GraysAnalogy]

I think you handled it very well (I've read your update)

Hopefully this will be a turning point.

[iluvmykids28]

i'm sorry but that teacher is bang out of order. It must be really upsetting to hear your son being talked about in that way. Yes your son's behaviour needs addressing, but I also know that some children are sly and know exactly what buttons to press to wind another child up.. As for eavesdropping, who wouldn't stop and listen if they heard their name mentioned -we all would. I would talk to the Head. That teacher needs to know that you heard her.

[ilovesooty]

The teacher knows the OP heard her. The OP updated the thread.

For fuck's sake...

[keepingmumfornow]

LOL

[Italiangreyhound]

Caroline if you are potentially wiping the floor with your son you do not have a well behaved son, you have an intimidated son!

[lalista]

Teacher unprofessional comment aside, and without having the full picture, it sounds like your son is either finding school boring or cannot control his behaviour. Is there any chance that he has a minor learning difficulty? Have you considered taking him to a paediatric occupational therapist? They look at fine motor skills, hand eye coordination, the way that the child absorbs information etc and then give you exercises to help the child overcome possible problems. I just happened to take DS to someone after years of problematic behaviour, also linked to difficulty with homework. And we are seeing the light!

[Mosschopz]

You don't believe in punishing twice so he IS perfect at home, so in his eyes this becomes school's issue, they're in the wrong, you're not working together and you're reinforcing this by emphasising that he's great at home.

Not many teachers would give a child three warnings if they were swearing in class. Surely you can't tolerate this more than once?

I've seen this so many times at my school: naughty at primary, parents support child and take what they see as the nurturing approach, child gets worse at secondary as parent hasn't laid the boundaries earlier and child turns into abusive young adult at school AND home.

[TheSolitaryBoojum]

Why would he swear at home? No appreciative audience.
No, staffrooms aren't a safe and private place for teachers to vent, cry or be human any more. The majority now have an open door policy for any adult in the school, from parent helpers to bikeability blokes and PTA.

[Rollinginthevalley]

staffrooms aren't a safe and private place for teachers to vent, cry or be human any more

That is really unfortunate, as teaching can be an emotionally intense occupation, and teachers need a safe space to unburden with colleagues. To do so is NOT "unprofessional" - on the contrary it's actually part of being a professional. In venting, a colleague may be able to offer a strategy, confirm that you're not imagining it, indicate that it's not personal - if other colleagues find a child difficult, you can stop yourself from thinking it could be personal. And so on.

The problem is, that nowadays teachers are only called "professionals" when someone wants to call them 'unprofessional' (such as in the OP). At other times, they seem to be regarded as a compliant workforce of robots. They're not - just that a lot of parents & politicians & policy makers seem to expect an almost servant-like non-personality from teachers.

[Vaara]

Our staff room has all sorts of confidential stuff on the notice board - medication requirements etc. For that reason it's no go to anyone who isn't a paid member of staff.

[TheSolitaryBoojum]

I've had several classrooms with lovely, big teacher's cupboards in them. Put a bolt on the inside and it's a Safe Space.

[jamdonut]

(I havent read the whole thread, Im reacting to what I have just read)
Of course it was upsetting to hear...but this is how your son's behaviour makes her feel! And the other teacher knew it too, because she knew who she was on about!
Seriously, people who say this is 'unprofessional' do you NEVER talk about your customers/clients/patients behind their backs? You must be absolute saints! I've never worked anywhere that that doesn't happen! Clearly, some of you think teachers are fair game to talk about!
No it's not nice to think (or hear) that your child is thought of like that...but this is the reality. You need take a long hard look at why he behaves like this.
And why do you not believe in punishing the same misdemeanour twice??? If it's been punished once, it certainly needs punishing if it happens again!

[echt]

jamdonut, reading the thread does help. The OP has posted an update since her original OP, and really doesn't need this need this.

[echt]

See page 17.

[passremarkable]

Alarm bells I'm sorry it was horrible to hear but YABU
I'm wondering if he's well behaved for you at home or if your turning a blind eye to things at home perhaps because you feel a bit lost as to how to cope with it.

i know he I know he must be a pain in class sometimes
You recognise his bad behaviour- you need to make sure he knows that you find it unacceptable & that there will be consequences at home.

he's never violent
This is not the ringing endorsement of an angelic child. By the time his behaviour degenerates into violence it will be much harder for you to change. It would be appropriate for the school to bring in outside enforcement like police for violence. You don't want it to get to this?

You say the teacher screeched at him- this is the story of a rude, sweating 8 year old- not something you've witnessed?

She tells him to leave the classroom after only on warning
That's absolutely correct of her. He should know at home too that if he is disobedient, rude or badly behaved then you give one warning, & if he does it again then there are consequences.

You could warn him now if he's:
-badly behaved at school one more time

• swears
  
• doesn't make bed
  
• doesn't do chores you've asked him
  

there will be e.g.
No TV for a week... ( for intermediate problems)
No pocket money for a month (for serious misdemeanours like swearing in school)
No pudding (for more minor crimes like bed making)

If he fails to respond or does behaviour again then it's 2 weeks & so on.

It's tough love and not easy to deliver but your son will be a better young man for it.

I still think super nanny episodes are an excellent resource for learning how to discipline without losing your cool. It's aimed at younger kids but the principles are the same.

Good luck.

[passremarkable]

Just saw your update page 17.

That sounds like a really good start to mending fences. I hope it works out for you.

[Kisathecat]

All the replies seem to indicate that you are in the wrong. If it's any consolation I don't think it's appropriate that a teacher would talk about a child like that. I would hope that teachers are better than that, but sadly they are not. I would also hope that people would have more compassion for a child of 8 years old who is being picked on, to what extent who knows? He seems to be pretty frustrated by it and is doing his best to stand up for himself. It's probably important that you get him to tell you exactly what is going on, boys do find it hard to really open up about these things. School doesn't suit all kids and you have to decide whether your son is going to thrive in this kind of environment. There are other options in the nature of homeschooling, see if you can find any groups in your area where you can get help and support.

[Miniminimus]

Sorry, I have read first few pages and skipped to last so apologies if repeating.

My DS had low level disruptive behaviour all through primary and secondary. We felt we had firm boundaries at home (2 other DC were fine) but found we spent every parents evening discussing behavior rather than progress. Sometimes he would do things that absolutely flabbergasted us (not violence or swearing but just things that were out of kilter with the situation and we were called in to talk about them). We always supported any sanctions or reward schemes. At the end of each year each class teacher said something was still not quite right but the head refused to do any assessment for SEN as 'he is not violent or the worst we have at school'. He implied that the issues were solely down to parenting. If I had my time again I would have pushed harder for assessment or support right back at primary because 12 years of this are exhausting for all! I echo posters suggesting you firm things up at home but also ask school for a clear action plan. Then ask for escalation if things do not improve within a term. Some schools have people in post to deal with this, some refer to local authority teams/behaviour support, some schools, (like ours and maybe yours) just leave it to each class teacher and it never gets dealt with and school is a wasted opportunity. If school won't help, please try your GP. If anger issues are involved (particularly if you have other children), they can refer to paediatric assessment and support groups for parents.

I hope you get this sorted early on OP. I sure your DS has lots to offer in class once this is tackled as a behaviour issue with the right support in place.

[Littleallovertheshop]

OP you've handled it amazingly. I think you got a pretty hard time on this thread but you've taken it on board.
I think letting the teacher know you heard and not taking it further was both the best thing to do and magnanimous of you - she could have been in a lot of trouble.
Well done, faith in AIBU restored!

[clam]

Why does someone always pop up with a suggestion of special needs or learning difficulties? The OP said right from the start there were none.

Bottom line is, there are loads of kids out there who are quite simply badly behaved. Searching for excuses for them does no one any favours.

[morningtoncrescent62]

Just read the first couple of pages and the update on p17. Well done, OP, for stepping up to the plate - I hope it goes well and that you and the teacher together are able to address your DS's behaviour.

[LarrytheCucumber]

Speaking as the parent of a former 'little ' I found some teachers were quick to blame us for his behaviour, despite all our best efforts to make him conform. I remember one dreadful half term when we put him on a regime of 'I say jump, you say how high'. We did everything we could think of over a period of years. I would not be at all surprised if his teachers had conversations as described in the OP. But in the end we were not there with him in the classroom. The teacher who had the most success with him instigated a reward chart for good behaviour and was fair but firm. She also saw something in him that she liked and capitalised on that.
Yes it is possible the OP could do more to back up the school, but maybe the school need a different approach too.
I am at posters who think their children don't know swearwords. My DS learnt a wonderful vocabulary of swearwords in year 3 from other children in his class.