Was my fiance being unreasonable, or me?

[lulowvanbeethoven]

A little while ago, I got a new job. I am a teacher so this did not start until the September. It was a different area of the country to the one we were living in, he wasn't thrilled with moving but was OK with it.

He got a new job, didn't take long, and his job started August so we moved beginning of July.

Anyway here is the unreasonable part - so we found a really nice house for rent, £700 p/m (more than affordable) in a gorgeous location, near the river. I said something like "oh I think it is perfect, don't you?"

He flipped at me saying that he had to pay for estate agents fees, deposit, rent for July August and September and I took him for granted.

Do you think I did?

Sounds awful. I know it's easy to project, but when I was in my early 20s, I was much poorer than my professional be (long gone now) who was a few years older. He was cruel about money, and as I was always trying to keep up, I just spent until it went. It didn't help with my financial responsibility because I felt like I had no control. I think it's healthy to be with someone similar age and circumstances, as you are in the same boat and can learn your financial limits together. Obs, this doesn't always happen and plenty of couples survive/thrive with financial
Disparity. But it doesn't sound like you are and you should think about how things will be in future. It's a really important thing to get this right.

I started reading this thread last night thinking you were unreasonable, but I've concluded any unreasonableness on your behalf is from naivety and/or lack of knowledge, whereas his unreasonable behaviour is from aggression and unpleasantness.

I too would be rethinking this marriage.

I too would be seriously reconsidering whether to stay with him, let alone get married op. If he's being abusive now it certainly doesn't bode well for the future.

Please think carefully whether this is how you want your life to be.

I think it's hard to tell whether you should LTB from a few snapshots (no context etc). But I do think it would be good for your own personal development for you to stand on your own 2 feet for a little while. The fact you have no idea how private renting works, that you have no savings, and that you are relying on your dad and fiance to pick up the slack says to me that you are naive and I worry if you continue with your planned marriage that you will end up with a relationship where your fiance feels he has to be the parent (obvsiously a role he has already fallen into) which isn't very healthy long term.

I know this is really easy for me to say and it's from a totally outside perspective but I think the best thing you could do is break up with your fiancé for now, it doesn't sound like an equal relationship at all and even though you do sound naive about money he seems to relish in controlling you / putting you down.
Would you not like to live by yourself (or with a flat share) for a while before settling down, having some freedom to grow and learn about paying your own bills and becoming an independent women?
I only say this because I've seen the sad consequence of a woman who moved from her parents house into her husbands, he dealt with all of the finances etc and when they divorced in their 50s she didn't have a clue how to do anything, not even set up a direct debit. I'm not saying that will happen to you but it's just food for thought.
Sorry if I've read the situation wrongly.

"he arranged viewing these properties and then got narky with me for saying I loved one of them"

"he could have paid the rent just out of his salary and still had change equivalent to my monthly salary"

He could easily afford the rent. He wasn't angry about the money - he was angry because you were happy and excited about the property and he didn't like it. He wanted to put you in your place.

"with the wedding coming up I sometimes have doubts (I know this is normal)"

It's not necessarily normal to have doubts. I think it's normal to sometimes feel a bit overwhelmed by the enormity of the commitment, maybe worried that one day you might fall out of love with each other... But I don't think it's normal to have doubts about the person you're marrying and wonder if you're doing the right thing. If you feel that way, you should listen to your instinct and not rush into anything. You should certainly allow some time for him to get to know your close family and friends, and see how that goes.

"I feel I am manipulated into being the one in the wrong no matter what I do."
"I feel a bit like I'm sometimes forced in a position where I'm always going to be wrong"

"He shouts, and he has a habit of bringing up other stuff which he sometimes takes out of context a little bit (or I think so) and he sometimes tells me to go somewhere else for a bit."

"He kept saying no, no, don't be silly, as if I'm going to take money off you when you earn hardly anything.
Then shouted at me for not offering money."

"he went very quiet and then suddenly started shouting, I think I was saying something about it and he suddenly slammed his hand near me and shouted 'and who the f*ck will be paying for this then'."

These are all red flags indicating abuse. Emotional, physical and possibly financial abuse.

Please read these:
signs of emotional abuse
Am I in an abusive relationship?
The Abuser Profiles

In the short term, I don't think you should get a joint bank account with him.
In the medium term, I think you should postpone the wedding.
In the long term, I think you should leave him.

Get counselling, call Women's Aid on 0808 2000 247, talk to a close friend or family member who would be supportive. The more you talk to others about this, and not him, the less confused and crazy you will feel.

Yes can I just add to the above post that I had no doubts about marrying my now husband - I don't actually think it is normal to have doubts sorry

I agree with Emma. I think that was a brilliant and astute post.

Its hard to know what to say - all these people are telling you that your partner is a manipulative person and that you shouldn't marry him, but the snapshot you've given does not prove this by any means. He's older and more experienced - yes, 6 years is a long time when you're in your early twenties - and he might find you exasperating sometimes because you are not as worldly wise as he is. But the aggro over his paying the costs for your new rental might easily have been put down to a bad day at work or whatever.

Speaking as one who has been married for over 40 years I can say that everyone has days like this and it is all too easy to say something in the heat of the moment.

I come from a very different background to my partner and perhaps take having enough money for granted which could easily have caused problems. If we have a disagreement we calm down and try to see things from the other person's viewpoint.

Do you like him, is he normally a reasonable man? Remember, any fool can run him down on a blog...

Talk to him.

Not read the full thread but you need to grow up. The "oh i didnt mean to do it, oh i didnt know how it works" would grate on anyone who is your partner. It is a ridiculuos attitude to have once past 15.

Sorry missed the slamming and shouting, ignore my post above.

When a thread has reached 10 pages, it's usually a good indicator that RTFT is a good idea!

cherrybath thanks for the assertion that we're fools running him down on a blog.

Your question "is he normally a reasonable man" has already been answered by the OP. Did you read the whole thread?

Like where he shouts at her, slams his hand towards her, and she feels intimidated by him, and like he's regularly trying to put her in the wrong.

That's why the "fools" on the thread on running him down

Any fool can get confused between a chat forum and a blog

I think most of us are aware that we have various strengths and areas we aren't so good or confident in.

Abusive partners often are very clever at finding the areas of weakness and using a spanner to drive the plates apart, making it seem as if the woman is highly unreasonable and even eliciting sympathy for his position.

I don't like the sound of this man, at all.

My two pence worth would be:

You sound pleasant, a bit muddled, but thoughtful. Your problems stem from youth and naivety. People tend to grow out of being young. So I reckon you'll improve with age.

His problems sound likely to get worse with age, not better.

cherry did you read all of the examples op gave? That's quite a few bad days. I have bad days, I don't become aggressive towards my husband and vice versa.

I think that a lot of the writers here have had bad experiences with unpleasant men and are reflecting these experiences. OP is only being asked for negatives so that is all we have had from her. She didn't start by asking whether the clash over the rental costs should end her whole relationship, but whether it was unreasonable. This poor sod woman's partner has been reasonable enough to give up his job, up sticks and move to a different part of the country - hardly the behaviour of a manipulative bastard.

I've thankfully never had a bad experience with a man however I think some of the things op has said ring alarm bells.

Especially regarding having a go at her about getting a bit drunk ... What's that all about

cherry do you know the difference between a chat forum and a blog?

OP, I don't think you should be living with, or planning to marry, anyone right now.

I think you need to grow up and live alone, stand on your own two feet and be an independent adult.

Then you can start thinking about living with someone.

I don't like the sound of him. But it could just be someone at the end of his tether from parenting his girlfriend.

The whole set up sounda weird.

I can't stand these helpless little girls who need a big, strong man to look after them.

I think you need to experience real life. Alone. With only you looking after you.

I think you'll benefit from that and from being single for a while.

And no she didn't start the thread asking that but threads can spiral and she has expressed concern over his behaviour towards her.

I think you need to grow up and live alone, stand on your own two feet and be an independent adult.

I do agree and think this would be a very good idea.

I think that you sound needy and like a dependent child. That's causing him to be so angry and wound up that he then behaves in an unreasonable way with all the shouting. You need to pay him back half of the costs of moving, and ensure that you are pulling your weight financially. You don't have a right to live off anyone else, and he clearly wants an equal partner not a dependent. It just seems totally unreasonable that you lived off his for months and haven't even offered to pay it back. If he was my friend, I'd have advised him to leave you. However, if you pull your weight and act as an adult partner and he's still ranting and raving, then leave him.

I am not needy, or like a dependent child.

We decided together, to move, yes, I instigated it, but he didn't say no. He could have.

Having decided to move, I was naïve about the costs yes, it was just unfortunate my job started after his but could not be helped really.

The other options were to

move out for july and august and only move back in when I could contribute to the rent, why?

borrow the money from my dad.

I'm actually quite independent, and have always worked.