Wife work - AIBU?

[Modestandatinybitsexy]

I don't iron. Except in those very rare occurrences that I have a job interview or a top has been so scrunched at the bottom of a pile that it cannot be saved.

DH has a lot of ironing to do so I offered to do the bedsheets to take the strain off him. He said it was fine.

The conversation then developed into why I didn't offer to help with the shirts. I said because I bought clothes with the aim to avoid ironing and they are his clothes, hence his responsibility. Fair enough, right?

He thought that as we share all other duties that we should share this. He then came out with the cracker that it could be thought that, as it's deemed necessary for his professional job that he wear a shirt then, it is in my best interest and the interest of the household that I do the ironing. This sounded to me that as I earn less than him I should be putting more in at home.

We both work full time, no kids yet, we both cook and clean. We are non traditional in that I am the lazier party but it can be argued I put more in that I would if I lived alone out of respect for him.

We are ttc, the above viewpoint worries me because what will I be expected to do as a stay at home mum?

So AIBU maintaining my stand of never ironing, in offering to help out as a "favour" with our joint ironing, and sometime his clothes; or is it my responsibility to share this chore?

I agree with pretty much everything Duckdeamon says. I didn't really get feminism until I had kids either - and by then it felt too late.

It isn't really just a question of trust - I trust my DH too, but having children is a great way to find out what your values really are in practice and not just in theory. I know that if I had asked, when the kids were tiny, DH would never have admitted to wondering why the house was a tip when he got in from a hard day at work but he never truly understood what looking after a baby and a toddler means in terms of what else you can do, and I always felt that if he was tidying up he was doing it resentfully.

The truth is the life of a SAHP is completely different to that of the parent who works full time, and it takes an awful lot of honest, open, and sometimes irrational discussion to maintain a relationship in that situation. Obviously it doesn't if one person is prepared to lose themselves to parenting and housework as we are supposed to believe 50s housewives did (though I'm not sure that wasn't just advertising) - but the point is these days we don't want to live like that.

I would never iron for dh, and he would never let me iron. He irons for me or I don't iron. I don't know how to iron things likes shirts, it's way too hard.

Given you are both working full time at present, why are you referencing your lower earnings? I hope he isn't suggesting that means you should do more now?

DH is the only one who irons in this house--and only his work shirts. He never asks me unless he's running late, trying to do lots of other stuff and I'm awake without my hands full with children. And then he'll ask nicely to see if I mind and it would be U of me not to help.

As for ironing bedsheets...my DM used to do this as a way to make sure they laid flat in her airing cupboard. I don't bother. After years of ironing for college (military), I've been put off for life and look for clothes that don't need it.

In other words, YNBU. It would be nice to offer but you definitely don't have to. They're his shirts so he can do it.

Wanting to maintain economic independence, "employability" and personal financial security (pension etc) is an entirely rational desire.

The "rational" argument he will very likely put forward if you have a DC (sorry to hear about the troubles with ttc) will be to prioritise his earnings and career, since you are the lower earner and (theoretically anyway, you don't yet know how you might find maternity leave) wish to SaH. That's fine if you have your eyes open about the challenges of returning to work after a long break and as confident as you can be that he will actively support your return in future.

I have seen a LOT of friends and family whose DHs, though otherwise as far as I know decent partners, haven't shown themselves worthy of trust in that regard. They have used their wives' weaker economic positions to justify the status quo that benefits them.

Yonic As he will be the main wage earner and is a "qualified professional" his arguement was that it what was best for me as well as him that he looked good as it is a requirement for him. As I choose not to iron my things it's a personal choice but apparently it's not a choice for him.

Don't even bring up non-iron shirts or an ironing service, apparently they're out of the question.

Ouch. Watch out!

Do you have to wash his hair, clean his teeth and wipe his arse for him as well? not doing those things could be professional suicide for him after all

So you choosing non iron items is a personal choice in his eyes, but though he could do the same, that's somehow a different kind of choice, creating work to which you should contribute?

He's not sounding like the rational one here.

I am quite concerned that he values his leisure time more highly than yours because he earns more in his professional time.

Perhaps the rational thing would be if he is a SAHD until such time as your earning potential equalises?

See, I can make a rational argument for all kinds of things AND I have a lady brain.

Does he consider himself more important than you, would you say? Think of his actions (eg name changing) not his words.

Tell him to go there and do one.
But what the heck are you ironing sheets for? Sack that.

Pah hah hah. I do all the laundry in our household, but I NEVER iron DH's shirts. His responsibility. If he was really busy for whatever reason I might help him out, but he isn't. ever. busy.

Have not rtft, but I don't agree with the OP. Responsibility for work clothes should be a shared labour "expense" and factored into the household tasks to be divided. If your DH wants to wear ironed shirts out of work, that's his own lookout. However, given that he probably does have to wear ironed shirts to work, it's reasonable to share that task or share the expense of getting someone else to do it (though in practice you may feel you have to do make up etc for work so that you have an equivalent necessary-for-work task that evens things out).

And depending where he works, non-iron shirts may not be an option. Where I work, it would be frowned on to wear anything other than quality cotton shirts, and it's in our employee handbook that you should get them professionally laundered and ironed. That's pretty normal in the city.

OP seems perfectly happy for the shirts to be sent to an ironing service, nobility. It's her DH who isn't.

Don't iron sheets (tumble them and then finish them off by drying them flat on a clothes airer).

Send shirts out to be ironed.

I wasn't suggesting otherwise, yonic, just saying that I don't agree with the premise that responsibility for preparing work clothes should not be shared.

When DH was alive, if one of us was putting a load in, we'd ask the other if they needed anything washing. He was a bit clueless about mixing darks and lights, so he'd ask me what I needed washed.

He wouldn't have dreamt to ask that I iron his shirts. Where would it end? Ironing socks and pants?

I often look longingly at my beautiful 500tc bedding, and think "God, that would look so much nicer if it was ironed", but can't be arsed. Pure cotton wrinkles up the next day anyway. Careful hanging of washing ensures no ironing.

I love it when people think marrying someone military = all things tidy and knife edge creases. Me and DH, both military, only iron when its really required (normally uniform) and the ironing board is permanently out to do the odd job, we never iron a basket of stuff. As for sheets; nope!

If you are thinking about SAHM, then think carefully about the division of responsibility before suddenly you're expected to everything related to the house.

• I forgot to say, I don't think YABU. At all.

Outsource it.

I'm a bit torn.

I have been a SAHM for about four of the last eight years, and working pt for the rest of that period. In my experience it isn't sensible to do ironing during the day because the baby will wake up and/or a toddler will try to yank on the cord or whatever. I'd only feel remotely confident ironing during the day now that I have an afternoon a week where the youngest child under my feet is 5.

So for those eight years I've only ironed in the evenings. I quite like ironing as it keeps your hands busy while you watch TV. I had a job that involved ironing some years ago and it was just as pleasant then 40 school shirts take about as long as a film, FYI. There is a visible difference between an ironed garment and one that isn't ironed, and although that doesn't matter 90% of the time it is still a thing.

Stupidly I absorbed my childhood teaching that the cleanliness or otherwise of a house is the woman's responsibility - interestingly DB doesn't have this inbuilt so fuck knows why I do - so even when DH and I were both working full time and my day was longer because of my commute, I have always done 99% of the housework. He can go a fortnight without emptying the dishwasher, and has put precisely one load in the washing machine in probably a decade. He will empty the tumble if he happens to be next to it when it has finished, but doesn't fold or sort. He does 99% of the paperwork/bills etc but I don't think it's an equivalent burden.

What's troubling about the OP isn't the ironing or lack of, but the assumption that MrModest's appearance is Modest's responsibility in any way, and his angry stonewalling when she deviates in any way from the stereotypical wife he has pictured in his head. It's amazing how demanding a baby can be - it's perfectly possible for a baby's mother to reach 3 pm without eating, drinking or showering, and it's also possible for a small baby to cluster feed from 5 pm for six hours without a break. In those circumstances it's soul-destroying to face normal housework in the very short periods when the baby might sleep and you can actually close your aching eyes for half an hour.

That's not a given, of course, but it's a possibility, and I'd hesitate to actively ttc with someone I could expect to react unhelpfully in that kind of situation, ie a suboptimal one.

It doesn't mean OP should immediately ltb or stop ttc, but rather that she needs to get a handle on MrModest's underlying attitudes before it's too late.

"I can count on his views to be rational rather than emotional though...On the other hand I am more emotional. I hate the idea of being dependent on him for everything."

Ok, I'm starting to see that you both have some slightly entrenched sexist views (sorry :() because you sound PERFECTLY rational, and he sounds - if anything - irrational in that he won't consider various options "just cos".

If he's a lawyer, I hope he's a better arguer at work than he is at home.

I wonder how he would react to this: The Politics of Housework?

To me his attitude is the equivalent of you deciding to use washable sanitary towels, and then asking him to wash them for you because you wouldn't be able to go out to work if you were dripping blood. But every week...

I haven't read the whole thread so may have missed a previous explanation, but why on earth would you iron bedsheets? That's just completely lost on me.

Re the work shirts tell him to buy the easy care one's from M&S, wash, tumble dry, hang straight up while still warm. Not perfect but by the time he's driven to work in it noone would be able to tell the difference. I've been doing it with my husband's work shirts for years. (I'm a SAHM who's kids aren't home a lot of the time so I have no issue washing DH's shirts, he works long hours).

your dh has already shown you that he pays lip service to 'feminism' until it affects his ego and 'values'.

no, people don't always have the perfect relationship before having kids - however, to not even discuss something as important as this like reasonable adults whilst your ttc !!!!

you do realise that many relationships break down due to other halves not pulling their weight, or using their earning power as a means of abuse and control? you say you trust your dh, but your dh is already showing you how he views your role in the relationship given that he is the main wage earner. he's already telling you his needs and wants are a priority and this will become even more obvious if you become a sahm.

if you don't want to lose your independence,power etc, then DON'T leave these 'little details' for later. YOU decide how you're going to retain your independence and dignity once you're a sahm and relying on his money. Now is the time to start discussing things like finances , access to accounts, bills, how will you split the money between you after everything else has been paid - will you be getting exactly half of 'spends' or will he get more 'as he earns it'?
Considering you will be taking a career hit - is he going to pay into your pension whilst you're a sahm?
How will you divide childcare/housework so that you both get leisure time and one-to-one time with dc? or will he 'deserve' it more because tiredness etc will affect his performance at work and so it's your fault if family relations/finances/lifestyle are negatively affected
will he be happy to support you going work p/t or f/t if it means he will have to do things like take kids to school, take days off work if dc are ill/appointments etc? or will that be solely your responsibility along with paying for childcare?

seriously, if you want to practice what you believe then you need to get your head out of the sand. being emotional doesn't stop you from being practical and tough.

leaving discussions like this until later is how we get trapped in a web of our own making.

Sage advice from DontMindMe. Write down her questions, add more as they occur to you. Sit down with dh and go through them all. If he won't do that basic life planning, then think very hard about what you're going to do.