Wife work - AIBU?

[Modestandatinybitsexy]

I don't iron. Except in those very rare occurrences that I have a job interview or a top has been so scrunched at the bottom of a pile that it cannot be saved.

DH has a lot of ironing to do so I offered to do the bedsheets to take the strain off him. He said it was fine.

The conversation then developed into why I didn't offer to help with the shirts. I said because I bought clothes with the aim to avoid ironing and they are his clothes, hence his responsibility. Fair enough, right?

He thought that as we share all other duties that we should share this. He then came out with the cracker that it could be thought that, as it's deemed necessary for his professional job that he wear a shirt then, it is in my best interest and the interest of the household that I do the ironing. This sounded to me that as I earn less than him I should be putting more in at home.

We both work full time, no kids yet, we both cook and clean. We are non traditional in that I am the lazier party but it can be argued I put more in that I would if I lived alone out of respect for him.

We are ttc, the above viewpoint worries me because what will I be expected to do as a stay at home mum?

So AIBU maintaining my stand of never ironing, in offering to help out as a "favour" with our joint ironing, and sometime his clothes; or is it my responsibility to share this chore?

I'd love to know where all these toddlers who are safe to iron around are, and how I swap mine for one.

I wouldn't let DW anywhere near my work shirts with the iron. Happily, she has never shown the least inclination to iron them. I just stick on a podcast and turn my ironing into relaxation time. However, if you know you are the "lazier party", to use your own description of yourself, shouldn't you be upping your game a bit? Assuming he hasn't got OCD.

DontMindMe We have had a variation of these discussions before, normally when I'm worrying about being reliant on him. I believe he's more comfortable with supporting me than I am with the situation. We have joint finances at the moment, all household spend goes from one account and he's always pushing me to use this more for things even now. You do raise some good questions which I think need a proper discussion about. I do worry that if he sees this job as joint or my responsibility then what else is/will become mine. Interestingly his argument was the same.

Toad I see myself as lazier because it takes me a while to get started and I'd like to leave jobs for later. Ultimately we do it on his timescale and I put my fair share of effort in. I compromise more on this for the sake of peace; I do moan a bit though. It's getting on both our nerves at the moment because we have nowhere to put anything in our house. Hopefully this will get better once we've built our new wardrobes, currently only he has space to hang shirts and I have a floordrobe which he sees as mess but is the only way I can function right now.

Can I just point out that while thinking about being a SAHM, you both need to consider/realise that SAHM does not mean that you are his mother. Why do you not want to go back to your job after mat leave?

There are definitely non-iron men's shirts!

The very first time I met my MIL, she sat me down and tried to teach me how to iron her son's things. Mouth before thought, I looked at her and said "did he break both arms while I was out of the room?"

OP, I am on board with your "your clothes, your ironing" POV which is how it is in our house. We share everything else, but I have purposely engineered my wardrobe to not require ironing and I'm not going to take it up for someone else.

Blood he has non-iron shirts and disagrees with the label and irons them anyway. To be fair we're pretty bad at leaving them to crease in the tumble dryer or after they've been collected in from outside. Neither of us like to fold clothes and we currently have nowhere to put clothes apart from a massive pile in the spare room

Jocasta We would both like our children to have a parent at home while they're young. Then I'd be looking to go PT while they're still primary and then FT as they get older. DH has worked hard to enable us to afford this, I have also worked hard but I've been stagnating in admin for a while as I'm reluctant to leave my company and lose maternity benefits.

This is such a cliché but until you have DC it's hard to picture the reality in your life. We both work but kind of opposite shifts so most of the time someone is at home with DC. DH saw nothing wrong the other day coming in after a day shift to see me in the kitchen cooking, he opened the door to let the kids play in the garden and disappeared off to watch TV by himself. No conversation with anyone or interaction or keeping an eye on the DC. The basis is set unfortunately on mat leave that mum = child responsibility and even though when I'm not here he does it - it's still easy enough or entrenched in him to think that he can leave it to me when I am here. We had words and he then played with the DC but if he had the opinion that his wage was important so therefore he is more important I don't think we'd still be together. if I worked full time we'd be equally paid if not me get more he knows the home parent has it harder and doesn't want to swap

There's nothing wrong with wanting your children to have a parent at home with them in their early years OP. It's a perfectly legitimate aspiration, and one that many couples manage to pull off satisfactorily and without anyone getting shat on. But you need to think about the realities and implications of it.

You want to be at home with them, plural, while they're still in primary. Even if we assume only two children, an 18 month age gap, ML with the first starting as late as possible and the youngest being 4 years and 1 month when they start, this is still a long time to not be earning. Getting on for 5 years. There's nothing wrong with that in itself. There might turn out to be a lot wrong with it when you're financially reliant on someone who makes jibes about you not earning as much as him even when you're full time. Added to which that you can't simply assume suitable part time work will be available to you after the better part of half a decade out. You say you're in admin. That covers a lot of things, but unless your admin skills are particularly niche or specialised, they're not likely to be in much demand after such a long time out. It may well be more than five years without earning.

This is why something needs to change. It could be that you thrash this out properly with your DH before conceiving, it could be that you stay PT instead of giving up work entirely, it could be that you develop some sideline to WAH while your children are small. You feel uncomfortable with the prospect of relying on him financially. That gut instinct is kicking in for a reason.

You've already taken a career and salary hit to retain maternity benefits, so are on the downward path of 'it makes sense for you to SAH . I suspect since you took the decision to stagnate he has had a promotion or two and will have 2 or more whilst you are fulfilling the 'joint' decision to SAH for Primary years.
Down the line and you have taken all the salary hit, career hit, done the family drudge work and got entrenched in your role whilst he has flown....
In his shoes I would be reassuring you that id financially support the family for 5 short years whilst my life didn't change at all. Just go into it with your eye open.

I have a staff member on ML at the moment. She has asked if we will pay for her to study in a diploma related to her job. No mention of ironing....

Of COURSE he's more comfortable being the sole breadwinner than you are about the prospect of giving up paid work. The risks are almost all going to be taken by you.

A parent (let's face it almost always a mum) AH for 7 years (an example for two DC) is one option to care for DC: there are many, many more options. That can work well for many families.

Good quality part time jobs tend to go to organisations' existing employees. It might actually be better for your longer term work life balance / childcare to stay part time (if you can get it) in your current job or another similar one.

A healthy, functioning, non-seething-with-resentment SAHM-to-a-WOHD only works when the man is enlightened and non-misogynist. If a man has even the slightest latter tendencies, it's a corrosive thing for someone who identifies as a feminist.

Some women are happy to do it ALL at home, including cleaning up after their man, and that's fair enough. If you're not that person (and your DH has certain expectations), then maternity-leave and SAHMdom probably won't be the fulfilling existence you've built up in your head.

DW is a SAHM. I do the ironing and at least half the cooking and tidying at weekends. And at least half the shouting at the kids to do their bloody homework (a big job).

As others have said, it will not work if he doesn't see himself as th big "I am" for providing for you. Creating life and caring for the kids and home is a massive job.

Oh, and half of all our assets are in DW's name. I'd be financially ruined if we divorced so I have to keep her happy

Very true duckdaemon. OP talks about going PT when the children are at school, so I presume the preference would be something school hours-ish rather than 2 days a week 8-6 or evenings. These jobs are very competitive. People who've not been in employment for 5 years are not best placed to get them, usual caveats about niche/in demand skillsets etc applying of course. If you're likely to want one of them OP, you may need a better plan. If you want to SAH for 5 years, you need to consider the likelihood of not being able to find suitable PT work when you want it. I emphasise that I've nothing against longish term SAHPing, it's a fine arrangement when it works, but it needs more ducks in line than you currently have OP.

• he isn't basing his opinions on anything rational. He is being emotional about the role of the woman in a relationship and gets too angry to talk about it.

• you are rational in not wanting to depend on him.

• his refusal to discuss things that bother him will kill your relationship unless you get him out of it.

• the dismissal of feminist views as such is going to kill any of your actually rational attempts to access what is going on here.

I have one of these. Speaking to a divorce mediator today. the sad thing is that the more he treats me like crap, the less I respect him. Relationships don't survive the loss of respect. I am only gradually realising how little he ever had for me, and feeling very much incapable of respect in return. How petty and shoddy life is, for them; how little they are happy to settle for; no nobility, no love, only arrogance and comfort. pathetic.

Sorry to hear that Howbadisitplease

Another issue OP is what model of parenting your H has in mind for himself. Some men who are sole breadwinner see their DC before work (eg do the nursery or school run) and go in late, or get home before bedtime, and share parenting during the week as well at weekends - like the poster above. Others (lots that I know of in commuterville outside London) work all the hours, travel, and see little of their DC, and do virtually no parenting all week, or domestic work at all. Works for some, but I personally wouldn't want that kind of set up and luckily DH felt similarly - we discussed how it might all work before ttc.

It's shouldn't be a battle ground or strict division of labour. It's not about who goes out up work and who maybe doesn't regardless of kids.
It's about mutual support, kindness, give and take and all hands to the pump of needed.

That's successful partnership

I believe he's more comfortable with supporting me than I am with the situation
No surprise there
It means he has all the economic power

Also OP not sure if you're still here, but check out whether your enhanced maternity pay has to be repaid if you don't return for a certain amount of time. You can't be made to repay SMP, but some contracts have a clause that some/all of what's paid above that has to be given back unless you go back to work. If that's the case, and you're not going back, you might as well consider opportunities elsewhere because the enhanced maternity pay will be no good to you.

I'm still here, still reading and taking all advice I can! and thank you for all your views depressing though they are :)

I wouldn't be in a relationship if he were anywhere close to some of your examples. And I certainly wouldn't have married him if I didn't think our relationship is built to last.

HowBad I definitely agree there are some areas he needs to address. Most of what he says about feminism is in jest. It just doesn't seem funny when we're in the middle of an argument. I understand this can be a mechanism for abuse but in this case it more depends on the mood I am in.

While I do have some reservations about his values and I'm still pissed about his reaction to my married name and the way he approached this argument I do believe he has my best interests at heart like I do for him.

Duck & Boner It's not like a haven't thought about the negative impact on my career, and you're right in that his is taking off while I feel stuck. I'm just not in the job I want to be in and I have no idea how to even find the job I want. If I want a family I currently don't have the time to invest in myself. I know it'll be hard but I do think DH will give me the support I need to explore my options when I intend to rejoin the workforce. Ideally this will mean retraining and he's happy for me to do this.

Knowing him, I also can't ever see DH being less than 100% invested in family time. He would like to be flexible when we have a young family and he's made effort to secure this in his job already.

This did start as a stupid argument because he didn't want to iron after a weekend of housework. There are plenty of options available to him to avoid this task but his choice was to choose the fact that I don't and never will do the ironing. It has been firmly pointed out to him how wrong this opinion is and if it's ever raised again he'll be getting an ear bashing

Sorry this has been so long! And my updates/replies just seem to get longer. I can't say how supported I've felt and this has provided an excellent excuse for a relationship and personal MOT.

Really glad you've felt supported, Modest. There's a power in knowing there are loads of people out there backing you up, isn't there?

best of luck with it all :)

Am sorry to be so negative (again), but it's likely to be even harder than it is now to invest time and attention in your career (and interests) after you have DC. Before DC I had lots of ideas for taking a different career path, but haven't found it possible, eg because of financial responsibilities and the sheer amount of hard work and energy that parenting and domestic work entails, and how little time it seems there is for other things! I have, however, managed to make some interesting sideways moves in my original field.

Retraining can be costly in both childcare costs and fees, especially if you're thinking of something like a full time course, eg teaching, or even a degree, and training providers are often not family friendly. I know a fair few women with DC who have achieved it, mainly by doing courses for several years (with bursaries) for NHS occupations, and they say it's hard, especially for those without lots of childcare / family help.

An accountant friend recommends it, so much so that her DH is retraining in it part time whilst working in a different job!

"Most of what he says about feminism is in jest. It just doesn't seem funny when we're in the middle of an argument. I understand this can be a mechanism for abuse but in this case it more depends on the mood I am in. "

It isn't about your mood. It isn't about whether you happen to feel offended or not. It is about the fact that he has a group of attitudes and opinions lumped into the "stupid feminism" category in his head and these are the attitudes and opinions you need him to engage with if he is not to be a patriarchal dinosaur. He can mock them, you may or may not find that ok or funny, but regardless of whether you're laughing indulgently or not you are still stuck with someone who has a cast iron way of ignoring what you are saying, therefore ignoring what you need and what you need him to do.

seriously the flapping red flags in this thread are making me feel sick.

It is not an insane crazy individual thing that he has personally made up that "supporting his job through his shirts is part of your job" that can just be laughed off. This is part of a basic and once universal attitude that my mother was brought up with, (maybe yours, probably his), and he BELIEVES that a family is an economic unit with a MAN who earns at the HEAD, and a woman who MEETS HIS PHYSICAL NEEDS AT HOME.

You have to meet this head on and make up your own EXPLICIT definition of a family, share it with him, and find out NOW whether you can take him with you or not. Because this is going to be hell on earth otherwise.

So OP you never said if you kept your name after you got married or if you ended up doing what he wanted .

Duck & Boner It's not like a haven't thought about the negative impact on my career, and you're right in that his is taking off while I feel stuck. I'm just not in the job I want to be in and I have no idea how to even find the job I want. If I want a family I currently don't have the time to invest in myself.

That's not necessarily true OP. There are lots of study options out there, some of them are even free! You could look at the Futurelearn courses with Open Uni and see if anything suits you, then go from there. Free to do, you pay if you want the certificate/exam. And this model is becoming increasingly common. It's worth checking out.

Even if you don't feel like a job or career change (and do check your contract to see if your enhanced maternity pay has to be paid back if you don't return, don't feel obliged to tell us the answer but be sure to find out) there are things you can look at.

In my experience men who make jokes about feminism/women/wives are the ones who believe their 'jokes' when their backs are up against the wall, ie when they have a child/children themselves. That's when their real attitudes come out; when they are expected to do a bit more despite not getting quite as much sleep or downtime as they are used to.