To feel totally ignorant about racism

[IcingandSlicing]

In that topic the other day I've learned that I am totally ignorant about racism. I had no idea that comments about hair for example that could be totally not ill meant could strike such a deep chord among other people
Or is it the comment itself or the way it was made - by the tone of voice etc nonverbal information you get from people - that makes it racist?
Or just some comments people make regarding kids like cheeky monkey for epinstance (there are tees with this) could be seen as racist?
I'm at a lost to be honest.
I've probably offended many people without even knowing about it.
I'd assume that in 2016 people would feel equal no matter how they look and not take offense from random comments.
Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them? (I mean I can say whatever negative thing I want about blond haired people, red haired people, black haired people, people who colour their hair, people who don't colour their hair, people who have thin hair, people who have thick hair, etc, but I feel like with black people it's likely to strike a deeper chord than ever intended and I am ignorant enough not to understand the history behid that makes it worse.)
And sorry about that I really don't mean to offend. Just to understand.

Why do you need to say negative things about anyone? Regardless of their hair colour, or ethnicity for that matter?

There are some more complicated things around race and racism that I appreciate aren't always clear and might be said without meaning to cause offence if you're not aware of the connotations, black hair being one of them. For instance how black women in particular were forced to hide their hair during slavery, or straighten their hair and wear weaves to conform to white, western beauty standards. The cornrow hair style in particular has been a symbol of oppression and later agency within black culture.

But it sounds a bit like you want to just be able to say anything you like to anyone? Yes you should self censure because going around commenting on others appearance, whatever their appearance, is just rude, racist or otherwise.

Listen and learn is absolutely right. For example, when I moved to london at 18, the bathroom in my shower in halls had a leak. My new friend from kent advised me to "put a pikey towel down" until someone came to fix it. I had never ever heard the word pikey before. She explained it to me as meaning a bit cheap and nasty. I used it in that context for years

It was only when I said it in front of my current boss and he was displeased that I learned what it meant. I could have found that out for myself if I had tried!

Whilst other cultures can seem a bit of a minefield from the outside, "be nice to everyone and google" will not fail!

White privilege?

So you want to ignore a large portion of the population in case you offend?

Yes there are things you couldn't possibly understand and never will in terms of racism. Like with anything unless you experience it you won't.

However you can educate yourself.
A lot of people think ignorance isn't an excuse to any racist comment but I ink from this post your trying to do that?

I haven't said anything.
It's a hypothetical situation after I read that thread. I'd imagine some of the offnesive comments could have been made in a totally innocent way. (Which apparently is not the case though.) It's how you take it.
People have said about my kids that they are cheeky monkeys many times but I never ever thought I could be offended of that. So I'd imagine I may say that for black people's kids and feel really bad if they are offended because I wouldn't mean it. Or something else like that - who knows, when you are unaware of context you may end up with foot in mouth situations.
(Not that I have so far but who knows)

Is this just a snide underhand way of implying that black people are oversensitive and take offence too easily?

You do know you re talking bollocks, don't you, OP?

PaperdollCartoon scarednoob Thank you!

Ali I was just wondering that.

OP I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt when I say, at best, you are way over thinking it, Stepaway from the media bullshit about pc gone mad.

Just think before you speak, like plenty of other adults have done over time.

Alisvolatpropiis No offense intended.
Thanks to all helpful comments.

You are confused OP because real racism is evident

Nowadays people are far less worried about real racism especially if it comes from someone other than a white christian.

What counts as racist now is one person virtue signalling to another by "virtual hunting down" of racists.

You may have friends, family, employers, employees, colleagues, lovers and neighbours of all races and treat them all the same - but that is no longer the issue. It is much easier to jump on someone who says something that they have been saying for years like "Have you ever tried wearing contact lenses?" and expose that as racist.

Real racism is evil, monstrous, damaging; it has no place in society. What is often defined as racism is something defined by those whose purposes it suits.

I actually understand where you are coming from OP. A lot of what I've learned about racism comes from this site. The cheeky monkey example, only on here have I heard its offensive to black people. All my life children have been called cheeky monkeys or a right little monkey, and I've repeated it as something you just say to lively kids. So if I was making small talk to a black child, say in a doctors waiting room for instance, I'd just rattle it out same as to any child. And I could also see myself commenting on hair that was striking, but I'd honestly be coming from a good intention of being friendly and just the way I am with all other children. And if I didn't use mumsnet it wouldn't even occur to me that I was being offensive and a perfect stranger would be upset by me.

Ooh look! More bollocks!

Hi icing I did see your comments on my thread about MIL being racist. www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/2626883-To-think-MIL-is-not-racist-but-so-f-cking-ignorant-shouldnt-be-around-DCs?pg=5&order=

It's not a huge thing. I don't think you are ignorant to blatant racism but need to educate yourself about negative sterotypes about BAME people.
Black people have been referred to as monkeys as a slur for years. That's why I knew my teacher was being mean when she called me and only me that growing up.
Yes some people may think my afro is amazing and cool. But for many years the afro was seen as unsightly. Black people were not employed unless they chemically straightened their hair with lye. It burned like a bitch.
I don't mind curiousity and genuine admiration however as someone who was born and raised in the ever diverse UK don't appreciate being treated like a circus act. Many of the questions asked are common sense really.
Yes I wash my hair - why wouldn't I?
Yes I can straighten my - why couldn't I ?
No I don't ever wonder what my hair would look like lying down. Do you bloody wonder what your hair would look like as an afro
Do black people feel heat in the sun - yes
Can black people tan - yes. Dark people can get darker
You don't sound like a black girl - what does a black girl sound like
Where are you from? - North London.
But where are you really from - The Whittington Hospital. North London.
Oh. And your parents? - Hackney.
Are they yours ? (To DH)
DH - no I smuggled them out of Ethiopia last week and Madonna just put in an offer.

Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them?

Honestly, give me the outright racist UKIP-rally shite over this simpering, disingenuous nonsense.

potoftea
Erm no one cares about compliments on hair.
But sometimes they are followed by the question which the person wants to ask.
Loads of people say me and DCs hair is wicked and lots of people say it's cool then casually drop in : so how do you wash it then?
Or when I have braids : how do you attach theem? With a slight look of disgust on their face as opposed to curiousity. They obviously think braids look cool but are in fact dirty to have.
Apparently black people melt in the shower ????

Op, a black person being compared to a monkey in any context is wrong because of the history. The person on the receiving end might not be able to judge whether your being nice, playful or just plain racist.

Last summer when I was having trouble with my daughter's eating, the health visiter came round to my house a couple of times to help. She kept on referring to my daughter as "she is such a cheeky monkey " every time she said this, it made me flinched. Didn't say a word because I knew it was out of ignorance, that is what I assumed. If we were friends I would have told her to stop because it made me uncomfortable. I needed this woman's help and I was not ready to jeopardise it. I put up and shut up.

So you think the solution to racism is to ignore black people all together? It's just common sense most of the time, I think you're massively overthinking things. If someone tells you something offends them then just say I'm sorry, I didn't mean to/didn't think and move on!

rockacrybaby Honestly I've had no idea about those things. How long ago was that? (I know it was bad in the USA maybe around the 60s, maybe 70s?, but had no idea it was like that in the UK too.)
I also feel that I shouldn't comment on anything like a small talk or even if I am really impressed by a physical appearance out of fear that it might be accepted in a negative way.

Sorry I commented into your topic - I realised I was totally unprepared to give opinion, please ignore my comments.

debbriana Thank you!
Yes, this is something I personally had no idea about being so hurtful. Because it was certainly not meant to.
So treating all people equal does not really work.

I think most people manage not to be racist by not being a racist.

It's not hard.

So treating all people equal does not really work.
Well, no it doesn't really, not in the way you mean

Eg I swear like a trooper in front of most people I know except in front of DS or my Nan.
There are certain insults me and friends use to each other, but I would never, ever use them to people not in that v close circle, they would be massively offended.

We all have to moderate our behaviour to a certain degree when dealing with other people, it's part of navigating life isn't it?

Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people
I am not black. I am of mediterranean descent. I get racist comments, as does my dd. Sometimes they're to do with our hair. Apparently mine hasn't gone grey yet because I'm a 'paki', or so I was told by a complete stranger at a market on Saturday. Funnily enough I didn't purchase from her.
Things were bad in the UK. I have scars from where I was beaten up by the National Front in the seventies. I have been spat at on the street, back in the seventies. I was very dark as a child, I was refused jobs, my dd is as dark as I was, she is frequently asked where she comes from, and it's always followed by: 'yes, but where do you really come from'.

IcingandSlicing

So treating all people equal does not really work - this is what you really wanted to say and what the post is really about. This post is really : AIBU to think BAME people want special treatment and are too sensitive?
Stephen Lawrence ring any bells?
Damilola Taylor?
Mark Duggan?
And all the other unnamed poor poor BAME people who never got an inch of press?
Please stop playing dumb and have some respect. Say what you really want to say. I know some people are genuinley ignorant but I smell a rat. This post is concealed as oh I don't know what's offensive But I suspect it's why are they so easily offended what you really mean. Hence why you've ignored several kind and gentle examples of why certain things are slurs and continue to play dumb.
Please educate yourself you will better for it. But I suspect you know more than you let on.
No hard feelings

dawn ....where she comes from, and it's always followed by: 'yes, but where do you really come from'. hmm ...
It's so fucking annoying.