To feel totally ignorant about racism

[IcingandSlicing]

In that topic the other day I've learned that I am totally ignorant about racism. I had no idea that comments about hair for example that could be totally not ill meant could strike such a deep chord among other people
Or is it the comment itself or the way it was made - by the tone of voice etc nonverbal information you get from people - that makes it racist?
Or just some comments people make regarding kids like cheeky monkey for epinstance (there are tees with this) could be seen as racist?
I'm at a lost to be honest.
I've probably offended many people without even knowing about it.
I'd assume that in 2016 people would feel equal no matter how they look and not take offense from random comments.
Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them? (I mean I can say whatever negative thing I want about blond haired people, red haired people, black haired people, people who colour their hair, people who don't colour their hair, people who have thin hair, people who have thick hair, etc, but I feel like with black people it's likely to strike a deeper chord than ever intended and I am ignorant enough not to understand the history behid that makes it worse.)
And sorry about that I really don't mean to offend. Just to understand.

I dont understand what the problem is. You didn't understand that some of the things you say might be offensive. but now you know. So dont say them? Of course you should 'self censure'. We do it all day, every day. Its called being a decent, polite human being.

Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something that would offend them?

It doesn't sound like you know many, to be honest

I think the cheeky monkey example is the one that highlights what OP is saying the best. Many people use it of their children and would say it equally of kids of any race. Singling out a black child to be called a cheeky monkey is clearly racist. Calling a group of kids of various races cheeky monkeys isn't. A HV calling a black child a cheeky monkey is probably not intended to be racist (she probably says it about all kids) but might be interpreted as such by the mother so is a grey area to me.

I'm not black, I'm ginger. Being ginger isn't a race, so it can't be racist, obvs, but I've had plenty of harassment, bigoted comments and inappropriate sexual remarks. I've been pushed into a road, had a cigarette stubbed out on my coat, had many insults hurled my way, and even nearly been passed up for a job because of the colour of my hair! This is bad enough. I can't imagine what it must be like to be treated in the way that rockacrybaby was when she was growing up. The cheeky monkey thing is something I'll bear in mind. I've used it to lots of children in the past (without thought to any racist connotations) and can understand how that may come across to a black child so I will certainly rethink my language. That's white privilege I think? Not even being aware that it's offensive because it's not on your own radar!

I had the most shockingly racist HV. I wish I'd had the balls to report her. Everything she said was without any witnesses (other than my small child) so it would have been her word against mine.

She used the n word in that rhyme while choosing something among other things.

Ignoring the racism aspect of your post, there are of course people who love to take offence at everything. I remember HR sending me an email after I used 'brain storm' and someone complained it was offensive to, no idea but they obviously didn't like it.

I remember my husband's Aussie friend turning up one day saying, "Oh the Pakis are coming. Going to be great". To him, Paki meant, very specifically, people from Pakistan and was no different to 'Brit or 'Scot', for example.

The adage, if you don't have anything nice to say, keep quiet tends to work.

On the whole it isn't difficult to avoid causing offence. If someone takes offence at something like debbriana's example then I do think maybe the offended party should accept that there was no malice and get on with it.

Remember that MN tends to home the perpetually offended or at least, a higher percentage than you'd meet in daily life.

//

rockacrybaby

Some of those questions are stupid, of course. Some of them are surely genuine questions and I'd quite like to know the answers.

Yes I wash my hair - why wouldn't I? (was it braided?)
Yes I can straighten my - why couldn't I ?
Do you bloody wonder what your hair would look like as an afro

^^--- I have no idea because afro hair is different to other types of hair and I've never been told the answers. I've wondered what my hair would look like blonde, afro, short etc.

Do black people feel heat in the sun - yes
^^---- clearly stupid

Can black people tan - yes. Dark people can get darker
^^---- vaguely stupid

You don't sound like a black girl
^^---- ignorant and very stupid / racist

Where are you from? / and your parents?
^^---- an example of you looking to take offence.

I asked my brother if he had to put suncream on his newly adopted Ethiopian son. How would you class that?

You comment about your husband smuggling your boys out of Ethiopia made me smile being so relevant to my nephew.

GhoulWithADragonTattoo OP gets the logic. She just resents it I suspect. Doesn't think BAME people have the right to be on their guard as it's all in the past or very rare or whatever. The thing is we want to fit in. I love who I am but don't want to be black I want to be me. I'm not a colour. I'm a person. I feel like BAME people who grew up here and who love this country are bored senseless of being asked questions which constantly and constantly highlight that they are different. I'm speaking with a London accept stop asking me where I am from. Hair is hair and needs to be washed stop asking me how or if I bloody wash mine!!! This curiousity too much of the time is not innocent and comes from a place of aren't you strange. This is all. It's 2016 I don't give a shit if you live in a remote village in nowhereshire turn on a tv there's plenty of black people waiting there for you on the screen. Bloody Google it.

herecomethepotatoes white people are from all over the place. Do you think white people get asked "so where are you from" as much as BAME people ?

OP I wonder if you can give me an example of a comment about hair?

I ask because I get a lot of comments on my hair and I haven't found them offensive. But they have been more "how do you look after your hair, it looks good" rather than "gosh you are stuck with that hair aren't you" or "wow, your hair is properly frizzy" or something like that.

I do get cross when people ask "where are you from". Because I was born here, in London and it's the only "culture" I know. But I realise that this happens because some people take "where are you from" very differently than I do.

rock "I'm speaking with a London accent - stop asking me where I am from."

exactly.

herecomes this is bloody offensive yes....
"Where are you from? / and your parents?
^^---- an example of you looking to take offence.

Why assume that because some one is a different colour that they must be from somewhere else?
That by it's v definition is racist.

A BAME person's ancestors could have been here for hundreds of years, how does being a different colour define where you are from?

Do you ask white people with english accents where they are from?
No?
Even though loads of them could be immigrants, or children of immigrants?

gingergenie I've seen people with red hair be bullied my entire life. It's an acceptable form of prejudice I found.
I don't mind cheeky monkey. I minded it in the context of being the only child in the class being called it and only when other teachers were around for a good giggle.

Not that I find it acceptable.....society seemed to have found it as acceptable.

BadDoGooder Thanks. I don't think it's rocket science at all. Oh dear.

rocka it's not bloody hard is it?
In the midst of a seemingly reasonable post, an example of shining prejudice!

I nearly also pointed out that telling BAME people when they are allowed to be offended, and minimising when they say they are, is also pretty racist ooops, might have done that now!

also "where are your parents from" is one of those questions that I just find unnecessarily nosey and weird. Why do they want to know? And when I was young, I found men who were asking were asking so they could say "I just love women from whatever country".

so because you are ignorant you think you should avoid 'black people' in case you are racist and they are sensitive.

why not educate yourself? the internet is right here. there is no excuse for your ignorance.

Yes rocka - totally got your drift! And re:the cheeky monkey comment - exactly that - it was directed at you. I still (and I'm 46) get stopped by random strangers to ask if my hair is dyed or not (it's not, because I haven't gone grey yet - one of the perks of gingerism!). As you say, a bit of thought and a dose of Google goes a long way!!!

Colleague with afro hair frequently gets "ooh I love your hair, can I touch it?"

"Please don't" she says through gritted teeth

It's an example of something that is intended to be a compliment but she says makes her feel "different" and "exotic" and not really taken seriously (who the fuck asks to touch the hair of someone they only know vaguely in a professional context??)

Thanks HapShawl
If she was white with a new gorg hair cut would anyone say can I touch it ?
No.

HapShawl
Please consider this ;
Your hair is beautiful is a compliment. Fair enough. Thanks so much.
It's usually the shit that follows which isn't complimentary;
Can I touch it?
Is it hard to manage ?
Can you get nits?
Do you use our shampoo?
It's not really greasy is it ?
Can it lay down flat ?
How long is it ?
Can you wash all of it though ?
OMG YOU USE HERBAL ESSENCES TOO????????????

"Aibu to think that I'd better keep away from black people in case I'd say something"

Yes. Just educate yourself!

Why black people specifically? Do you feel the need to avoid Jewish people, or Asian people also?

I get really annoyed when people say 'it's 2016!' like racism isn't a problem any more, or that hundreds of years of oppression aren't still having an impact today.

"Little monkey" is offensive because it's been used as a racial slur for years. Monkey chants still happen at football matches- this isn't a problem that we have consigned to the dim and distant past.

I've seen a lot of my black friends being treated as 'public property': people asking to touch their hair, etc. I was in a pub for someone's birthday celebration a couple of years ago and a white man came up to us- knew none of us- and asked to take a selfie with one of my black friends. His reason for this was that he'd just got back from holiday, had a tan, and wanted to show how dark his skin was in comparison to my friend's. He genuinely didn't get why our reaction was hostile. 'Cos it's just a bit of banter, isn't it?!

As others have said, check your privilege. If someone in a minority group is offended by something you say or do, listen to them.

I've seen a lot of my black friends being treated as 'public property': people asking to touch their hair, etc

Thanks Rae

Sad thing is many would say he was just being silly. It's not nice. At all.

I mean people may try to offend you but what if you don't take the offense? You're not giving them the pleasure of offending. Is that possible?

Yeah that sounds like a good solution. People who are habitually subjected to racist abuse should just not take offence. Problem solved. Does this work for physical abuse also? If someone hits you in the face just refuse to get a black eye. Sexual assault? If someone gropes you without your consent just refuse to be upset and/or humiliated. Brilliant. Looks like all our troubles are over.

I think a lot of people have read your post differently from me, but I read it to mean that you were confused about saying things which you believed were compliments but may be seen as insulting/racist by some people.

Unfortunately it isn't the case that people feel equal in 2016 and that is mainly because in reality not all people are equal. Racism is still very much alive and the racist history behind comments about hair for example is largely ignored.

Here is a video explaining a little bit about black hair in relatively simple terms since that is one of the examples you used in your OP.

farmers we all read the same post but OP has already made comments on mine and some revealing ones on this one too. No one cares about being complimented and she knows this. We won't see the OP again. She didn't get what she was looking for which was omg I agree with you BAME people always take offence to everything they are so sensitive
I'm not being a troll by the way she made some very strange comments and assertions which weren't in line with her claim to be genuinley confused.