To worry I've turned into the attachment mum horror

[ASAS]

So, as a seasoned MNer I'm asking you lovely lot to judge me as tbh I know I'll get the truth.

My DS. Darling Son. Without droning on we attachment parent because honestly I just assumed that's what everyone was doing, comfort him when he cries, let him explore, respond to his cues etc etc. I just thought that's how we (all parents) did it. I kind of still do as I genuinely rarely see a shouty mum, we're all quite new age and chilled aren't we?! Anyway, that was background to let you know I don't see my parenting as that unusual.

My son is now 4 and wonderful. Me, however, not so wonderful after the following happened. Please hand me grip if you feel it's needed...

In church this morning a woman in front of me, who I didn't recognise, turned to me and said, "Have some respect. Sit your child on your knee." For context we'd moved pews next to a toddler he loves to play with. My son and the toddler were not making any noise but were walking (within arms reach). I was so ashamed that I picked up my son, and spent the rest of the service on steps outside.

I love church. It might as well be a spa day for how good it is for me, and everyone is always so lovely to my son. Afterwards the toddlers mum came and found me in the playroom and was a bit lost too but it was me not her the woman spoke to.

Yes, he's wild and I'm crunchy. But he's also so lovely that he asked if he could take the box of donuts he earned as a reward to church this morning to share with everyone, unprompted. He's not naughty, just 4. But is that me being a defensive attachment parent with a pfb?

So go on. Have I done this totally wrong?

If he was disturbing other people then you were in the wrong.

What are you church's rules about children walking around during the service?

I think you are being a bit sensitive about the church woman.

I know a few people who are very vocal about being into attachment parenting, to be honest all of their kids are quite hard work in terms of behaviour and have no structure or boundaries.

Teaching kids social skills isn't a bad thing. They need guidance with this sort of stuff. Otherwise they become badly behaved and they get labelled by others.

Er no, by most people's standards allowing your 4 year old to move around quietly (instead of requiring him to sit down and stay still) is not taking being an unreasonably child-centred parent, which I'm guessing is what you mean, the kind of mum who assumes her child's wishes trump the needs of anyone else in earshot, but clearly this lady disagreed.
Would your son have sat quietly on your knee if asked to do so?

At 4 he should really be able to sit down for a while. My ds was horrifically bad at sitting still but I'd have still encouraged it and he'd have done it with wriggling.

However you haven't committed an offence, you've not done anything wrong and none of it is a big deal at all.

You probably are just looking for positive affirmation that the woman's mental and you're totally right but tbh that isn't the real issue. The issue is stop being so sensitive. It doesn't matter. You can't take everything to heart and that's one of the most important things to teach your ds too - a bit of resilience goes a long way .

I think the mistake you're making is that you expect everyone to find your son as cute and lovable as you do. It's an easy mistake to make because you're biased

I didn't think people dressed in their sunday best for church anymore? Don't worry about your crunchy jeans.

No op not eveyone dose attcment parenting it may be very trendy among the middle classes but not eveyone dose it tbh I think it's a lot of bollocks

A child has to learn social norms and sometimes they need to sit down and be quiet weddings , during school assembly , funerals if your talking to another adult and you have told them to wait

I often laugh when people think they don't need to teach children these lessons as when there in school it usually means there a total nightmare

Bottom line to all of this is... would your DS sit down if you told him to?

If not, you have a problem with too much free spirit stuff.

I wouldn't engage with anyone who came out with the nonsensical bollix that is "wild and crunchy". You sound like a spectacularly irritating arsehole.

Î don't know what type of church you go to, be it is definitely a place for children, after all didn't Jesus demonstrate that! I have three kids, 10, 7 and 5 and they've been at church since they were 3 days old. I've breastfed at church, in the service, my kids dance, sing, say Amen loudly, they have also screamed shouted and had full on tantrums.

Now my kids have come out the other side, sometimes I do think it can be annoying when you are trying to concentrate and small kids are being small kids, but that my problem not their's. It's a chance for me to exercise patience and grace.

I've got upset with more people than I can remember at church, but then I have to go back, take a deep breath and show God's love, because if we don't the ripples of ungrace just spread further.

I think she was being unreasonable, but don't take it to heart, use it as an opportunity for growth and make sure your child enjoys church and doesn't see it as a forced sitting still and boring place to be. God loves kids and he loves you too, he thinks you are a great Mum and has given you all the resources you need. Just keep going.

Thinking about it, I am astounded you've never felt the need to tell him to sit down and shush"

How do you ensure he is safe, doesn't bother other people too much, and doesn't always get what he wants if it's not in his best interests?

Yanbu to forget about it - this doesn't sound bad to me. I agree he's old enough to try and sit still but at 4 there are still going to be times when it doesn't happen.

I think it varies from church to church even within the same denomination and from vicar to vicar. I moved to a different church mid way through last year and this one is a lot more child friendly.
I've never had any issues with the parishioners at this one and in fact I think they find some of the behaviour amusing.

Also gotta agree on the children being the next generation of parishioners. Although I don't think children should run riot ( I don't believe your son was) I also think expecting them to be a mini adult is really stupid.

Catsvworld

Yes indeed

Remember when DD 2 was small and at church, she started emptying her pockets of slips of paper and small pens and laying them out on the pew, chatting to herself. I hushed her and starting gathering them up and she said in a very loud voice " No mum, they're mine! Uncle Vince and me got them at the bookies"!!!

Also, OP

you seem focussed on whether people think he's lovely. He's 4 - it's way to early to think about people thinking he's not lovely. They may, however start to think you are not lovely if you don't think a bit more widely that his immediate desires to do something.

Everyone parents differently. There's no law saying you have to give a child boundaries, or which boundaries you have to set if you choose to set some and not others.

The consequence is that the less you encourage your child to follow social rules, the more they (and you) will stand out and the more you leave yourself open to criticism of your chosen style of parenting.

Perhaps your reaction indicates that on some level you aren't comfortable with the overall outcome of your chosen parenting style or perhaps it just indicates your own level of insecurity and maybe you need to work on that a bit.

For all those saying "this isn't attachment parenting" - I don't think there is one set definition of it but it sounds like the OP is just followin her child's cues which does sound like attachment parenting to me. AP can look very different depending on which bits you embrace or reject and to what extent they are implemented.

Mm, I disagree with those saying the problem is OP being too sensitive.

I'm not saying this is exactly a big deal - IMO it doesnt even qualify as a storm in a teacup - but I can see why it's upset her, on at least three counts: implied criticism/dislike of her child, implied criticism of her parenting, an encounter which happened in church. Each of those separately tends to magnify my feelings about things (good or bad).

She lost when she made a child unwelcome in a church. Can guarantee your Vicar will agree. Try to forget it but I know that's hard to do!

THere are some environments where children have to sit down, restaurants immediately spring to my mind, but regarding a church, I'm visualising pews and people sat listening to the service, so I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a child to do the same. Although your child maybe lovely, they will be required to sit on the carpet at school and on the floor in assembly, so I'd start encouraging this if I were you.

You've parented how you feel is best and what suits you and your DS. Don't feel ashamed of that.

Some people wouldn't have minded in church this lady did. She didn't ask you to leave that was your choice.

However, what I would say is your DS is 4, starting school in September - he does need some ability to sit and shush as he'll be expected to do it. Perhaps church is a good time to begin to teach him this? Just start with small amounts of time and build up.

Why would you move pews to be closer to the toddler? I don't agree that child must be on your knee but every parent knows two children together have the potential to be much more disruptive than one child alone. Regardless of your parenting philosophy, it's your responsibility to set up situations in a way that minimizes the effect on other people. Also, 4-year-olds don't have much impulse control and you're making it much harder for your child to behave in a church-appropriate way if you put him right next to his mate. Can they not play together after the service?

The follow up description you have given of your 'he's wild and I'm crunchy' comment make me think that you're trying to be different to equally impress & annoy people around you. You're a riot because you wear jeans to church? I know loads of peolpe who wear jeans to church.

I have spent a lot of time reading up on different parenting techniques, and although I don't label myself, I do find that I fall in to the attachment/unconditional label more than others. This is unintentional, there just happens to be a label, which makes me think that it's a very common way of parenting, rather than being solely for the crunchy types

So much for Jesus said let the children come to me.

Are there designated family services at your church? If yes, YABU. If not YANBU.

I don't understand wild, crunchy, or attachment parenting. The older lady probably thought you were being massively disrespectful by wearing jeans to Church and is probably from the children should be seen and not heard generation.

What is the vicar's stance?

Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these."

We are reminded of this at the beginning of every service. Singing, wandering around, standing at the front, 'helping' the Vicar are all embraced.

The woman in church was rude but I'm afraid you do sound like one of those parents who think their children can do no wrong and are adored by all, so should be allowed to run riot. I find it worrying that you do not ever tell him to sit down or be quiet. These are essential skills for a child to learn

On a separate note, if your jeans are 'crunchy', you might want to consider washing them more often .