To worry I've turned into the attachment mum horror

[ASAS]

So, as a seasoned MNer I'm asking you lovely lot to judge me as tbh I know I'll get the truth.

My DS. Darling Son. Without droning on we attachment parent because honestly I just assumed that's what everyone was doing, comfort him when he cries, let him explore, respond to his cues etc etc. I just thought that's how we (all parents) did it. I kind of still do as I genuinely rarely see a shouty mum, we're all quite new age and chilled aren't we?! Anyway, that was background to let you know I don't see my parenting as that unusual.

My son is now 4 and wonderful. Me, however, not so wonderful after the following happened. Please hand me grip if you feel it's needed...

In church this morning a woman in front of me, who I didn't recognise, turned to me and said, "Have some respect. Sit your child on your knee." For context we'd moved pews next to a toddler he loves to play with. My son and the toddler were not making any noise but were walking (within arms reach). I was so ashamed that I picked up my son, and spent the rest of the service on steps outside.

I love church. It might as well be a spa day for how good it is for me, and everyone is always so lovely to my son. Afterwards the toddlers mum came and found me in the playroom and was a bit lost too but it was me not her the woman spoke to.

Yes, he's wild and I'm crunchy. But he's also so lovely that he asked if he could take the box of donuts he earned as a reward to church this morning to share with everyone, unprompted. He's not naughty, just 4. But is that me being a defensive attachment parent with a pfb?

So go on. Have I done this totally wrong?

Yes there are, there's a latin mass at my local catholic church, it's hugely popular, People who aren't local travel to it, some people get the most out of mass when they can focus and meditate on nothing but the service

Are there any churches/services out there for people who don't want children wandering about the place, even quietly, during the service?

You know, the old traditional ones? Or have they all closed from disuse?

You get a few. Often chapels in city centres. The overwhelming majority of churches in residential areas are somewhere in between and make big efforts to welcome and include children whilst also making sure the needs of other parishioners are met too. So a lot of things people have already mentioned, play areas at the back, crèches, areas where parents can take cranky children but still participate in the services, family oriented interactive services when Sunday School isn't on. Generally it works well, partly I think because people who are Christians do tend to show consideration for others around them.

I think the problem arises when you get that one family attending who think that the main service is an appropriate place for screaming, playing, running around, reading aloud, banging and generally behaving like they're in a playgroup. Then other parents either think it's okay or can't really stop their kids when everyone else's is doing it and it all deteriorates.

Sadly I have known a Church where this happened and a lot of elderly parishioners stopped going because they simply stopped being able to get anything out of the services because they couldn't hear. When you're elderly and your hearing isn't great it's not easy. These were people who'd been attending up to 70 years or even longer.

So it's great to add new people to a church community, but not at the expense of long standing communities. Unless your attitude is 'Well you'll be dead soon so you don't count'. Which I suspect for some people is a pretty fair reflection of their attitude.

If I was inclined to go to mass (I'm not), I would chose family mass, where the kids only sit for part, then they participate in part, and for the rest they're off colouring in in Sunday school.

I wouldn't take them to a pius full mass.

This is the same church that also does the latin mass, I would never bring kids there. The church DOES welcome kids, which is why it does family friendly masses so that you can go there with kids.. the other masses are for other needs.

Running up and down and climbing into the pulpit, babyrooty?? And your justification for allowing your dd to do that was that others were doing it too
Some people are truly beyond reasoning with...

I agree hetero. It's quite often used as a stick to beat other mothers with. I noticed a poster above said something like 'Oh well I'm going to miss DC when he goes to nursery after all the AP I've done'. Yes, like other parents just fling their child into nurseries without a backwards glance, don't miss them at all and run off cackling into the sunset with a bottle of prosecco.

Tbh the op has come across somebody who thinks children should sit down in church that is all thats happened the woman didnt think a 4 year old was delightful it happens so much angst and drama and a hooge thread has gone into over thinking this

fling their child into nurseries without a backwards glance, don't miss them at all and run off cackling into the sunset with a bottle of prosecco

Or 'Friday,' as I call it.

FirstWeTakeManhatten you're a woman after my own heart!!

Yes, like other parents just fling their child into nurseries without a backwards glance, don't miss them at all and run off cackling into the sunset with a bottle of prosecco

Isn't that just your interpretation of what the poster has(n't) said, Bill? I am sure (s)he didn't mean it that way and I think you've created a bit of a strawman there.

But, it kind of goes without saying that the longer you have spent doing something, (generally) the longer it will be to adjust to something else. Not a criticism of any particular style of parenting. Just a fact, really.

But we had all spent the previous three years with our children; prior to them going to nursery.
Why it was considered an extra shame for the child to start having been attachment parented (which is just a label incorporating some vastly differing "styles", it would appear) does suggest it was superior to the parenting all he class mates had received.
Even though they may well have been parented very similarly, just not according to the attachment parenting gospel idiots guide.
People have been doing this shit since time began; there's nothing new under the sun.

I have a suspicion that most sorts of parenting will lead to babies developing appropriate attachments (although obviously some parenting is so shit that children are left with lifelong problems attaching and forming relationships). Maybe doing AP is less about the outcomes for children and more about how the parents feel about themselves?

I just thought "attachment" parenting was what was called "parenting" (assuming you needed to verb it) for decades, if not centuries.

Doing what's utterly normal is fine. Labelling it has always struck me as a bit odd.

Using the label as an excuse for undue permissiveness, especially when having an impact on others, strikes me as both unwise and inconsiderate.

You are a great mother and like to take what others say to you seriously. People are different - some need a great deal of quiet and stillness in church. I do not think Jesus would have complained - he was keen on bring ing the children to him. Perhaps she was having a bad day. I would talk to the lady if I saw her again to see what was really bothering her specifically. the best way to move forward.
Your son is a joy - enjoy him. And let him be with his friend in church. Mine used to take cars to play with in the pews!

Not sure this woman has read the bit in the Bible where Jesus says"let the children come unto me"!!
Having said that, kids learning to fit in to a scenario where people may want to be quiet and focus is important but YANBU - you just need to adjust the balance a bit. And, as a regular Churchgoer, I would say the woman criticising was being a bit unnecessary and not very Christ-like.
Btw, everyone wears jeans to my Church, we are just so trendy, doncha know? 😏

Thing with Parenting styles is there is always conflicting views and also parents often feel stressed that its not working

'Attachment' parenting has just become a catch-all term for the current fashion for 'baby-led' everything. It has no actual basis in attachment studies, which is a real and well validated branch of scientific research into infant and child development.

But because a pop science parenting fad has borrowed the term 'attachment', it sounds sciency and this gives some of the parents who adopt it a sense of doing something that's evidence based.

Its paediatrician based tbf the modern version but there was umming and ahhing amongst the paediatric comunity about it and some of the evidence on attachment is based on those poor romanian orphans bung all that together and imo you get confusion and on occasion on hysteria about cortisol levels a bit of common sense and balance makes a parent not books and labels

We are all attached to our children my dds are attachted to me they slept in a cot and had a bottle you only get distachment (not sure thats a word) when childrens needs are not met that doesnt mea n if you are not wearing your child that you are neglecting them

Dr Sears was/is a big proponent of it, interesting reading.

I think I took 'attachment parenting' too far. I've got two lovely 20 something boys
but I can't get rid of the buggers.

I've yet to see a credible study that demonstrates that AP methods make the blindest bit of difference to infant attachment. I suspect I'll be waiting a long time, because actual attachment science tells us that attachment styles are most strongly predicted by the main caregiver's own attachment style and not by specific techniques he or she uses.

The opinion of one doctor is just that, an opinion - regardless of how many books he's sold.

I agree, I just said it was interesting reading. Similarly, aren't a lot of the discussions based around the effect of heightened/sustained cortisol levels that can result from crying or not having needs met?

My 23 yrold will not move out too attached be warned people . Yy Dr sears books are interesting i read a few

I dunno, when I hear the term attachment parenting I always think of poor Peaches Geldof.

Did it all by the AP book, and then her year old baby spends 17 hours playing next to her dead body.

Horrible.