To worry I've turned into the attachment mum horror

[ASAS]

So, as a seasoned MNer I'm asking you lovely lot to judge me as tbh I know I'll get the truth.

My DS. Darling Son. Without droning on we attachment parent because honestly I just assumed that's what everyone was doing, comfort him when he cries, let him explore, respond to his cues etc etc. I just thought that's how we (all parents) did it. I kind of still do as I genuinely rarely see a shouty mum, we're all quite new age and chilled aren't we?! Anyway, that was background to let you know I don't see my parenting as that unusual.

My son is now 4 and wonderful. Me, however, not so wonderful after the following happened. Please hand me grip if you feel it's needed...

In church this morning a woman in front of me, who I didn't recognise, turned to me and said, "Have some respect. Sit your child on your knee." For context we'd moved pews next to a toddler he loves to play with. My son and the toddler were not making any noise but were walking (within arms reach). I was so ashamed that I picked up my son, and spent the rest of the service on steps outside.

I love church. It might as well be a spa day for how good it is for me, and everyone is always so lovely to my son. Afterwards the toddlers mum came and found me in the playroom and was a bit lost too but it was me not her the woman spoke to.

Yes, he's wild and I'm crunchy. But he's also so lovely that he asked if he could take the box of donuts he earned as a reward to church this morning to share with everyone, unprompted. He's not naughty, just 4. But is that me being a defensive attachment parent with a pfb?

So go on. Have I done this totally wrong?

Our church hall does children's parties.
They have a bouncy castle and everything.

Bill "DarlingCherie you really need to bone up on the meaning of irony because your reply had shovels of it all over! Thanks for the big giggle."

I don't see anything ironic with Darlings post. To me it reads like it was important to her to ensure her dc felt secure and cared for and that she felt she could achieve this by doing the things she listed. Are you suggesting she is boasting? You sound defensive.

Nobody is threatened by other peoples parenting styles thats ridiculous what people object to is children doing whatever the hell they like without boundry or consideration the op is questioning her own parenting style which we all do at some point

Ah, the church hall; I see. Some people have obviously been to so many kneesups in church halls that they've forgotten the actual church during a service is a very different environment.
Snack trolleys indeed...

I disagree, molly. Some posters have labelled AP 'bollocks'.

In my experience parenting is a massively emotive topic and people are most definitely threatened by different methods.

Sorry if the snack trolley is a crunch too far. We also have breakfast rolls after the service. In fellowship.

Anyway, I will probably try to find the woman next week, apologise and make my peace. I'll offer her a hand woven lentil basket (jokes).

I think the woman was being rude - she could have asked in a nicer, more gentle way. Don't they have Sunday school at your church? My son is 5 and he goes to Sunday school so that we can sit in the service. Very young children are also welcome in the church and they have an area set aside with toys and books to entertain them.

When my sister wore jeans to our Mum's funeral, she wasn't being rude (long, long story but she deliberately antagonises when she can) she was being crunchy. And her, a banker and all.

A crunchy banker? Is that an oxymoron?

People parent in the way that comes naturally to them. There weren't any "labels" or official "styles" until people started trading on new parents insecurities by writing books about them.

It's like the diet industry; it's worth billions, and any crackpot can jump on the bandwagon.

ASAS, what do you think your post has to do with AP? Genuinely?

It was a moderately rowdy child being told to hush by a lady in church. I don't see where attachment parenting even enters the equation.

People parent in the way that comes naturally to them...

Exactly, molly. So why would people label another way of parenting 'bollocks' and 'psuedo science'?

And AP is worth billions? Eh?

What Floggingmolly said. Times a hundred.

Labels are bullshit, every parent and child relationship will be different. You don't need a title to hide behind, back up your choices, or fuel one one upmanship.

Just parent in a way that works for you.

Haven't read to end of thread as got too cross.
Church is a place for everyone. Sensible churches set aside some services as quiet/contemplative and say clearly not suitable for children unless they are happy to be still an quiet. Otherwise children should be made welcome by everyone. "Suffer the little children to come unto me"
Read suffer as you will, but children must be welcomed in church.
If being crunchy makes you feel unwelcome in your church you might consider discussing it with someone you trust, maybe your vicar? If you are being unduly sensitive well don't fret. If your appearance/attitudes are disapproved consider finding a different church.
Another solution to under Sunday School age children is for parents to get together to run a creche during the service taking it in turns to miss part of the service to run the creche with all children joining the adults in church for communion/receiving a blessing.
Other churches set aside a corner in the church with toys and books so parents can supervise their children whilst still being part of the service.

However a church manages it the important point is children MUST be welcome in and part of church.

You don't need a title to hide behind, back up your choices...

And nor do you need to slate anyone else's, Laurie.

"Haven't read to end of thread as got too cross."

Thus missing the bit where OP updates to say that they have a child-centric area, but that in the morning in question they chose not to be in it for religious reasons.

They were instead in Pew1, where there appeared to be no problem. They moved to Pew2 where her DC started to play with a toddler, thus causing the disturbance.

If he wasn't running around screaming I don't see that woman's problem. Our church (Catholic) has a room with windows into the church where parents with young children can take them if they are likely to be a bit lively. There are books and toys and the parents can still take part in the service. It's not reasonable to expect a young child to sit still for over an hour for a service that he or she doesn't understand. And if they have a little walk and explore their surroundings, what's the problem.

He could have been running around screaming. Some people (including op, I'll bet) would just describe that as him expressing himself. That it was in the middle of a church service would be completely by the by.

Why are some people so worried about the label attachment parenting?

To my knowledge, attachment parenting merely means providing babies with a fundamental trust in the World around them. This is fostered by responding to babies' needs rather than imposing scheduled feeding, cry it out sleep training methods etc. The original book of AP was Jean Liedloff' continuum concept. Some of it is probably BS in terms of research method (anthropology etc) but similar methods of looking after young babies are promoted by UNICEF Baby Friendly approaches. Let's remember that there also was a parenting style popular from the post war period to about the 80s when responding to babies needs was discouraged, strict feeding schedules were a la mode and plenty of babies ended up in full-time childcare from 3 months onwards. I take AP over that any time.

There are probably preachy AP types but hating the label and ridiculing the whole concept smacks of being insecure about ones own parenting or is simply intolerant. All sort of other areas in life have labels, concept and categories.

For some people building secure foundations for their children is very important, for some maybe because they themselves lacked in this areas as young children; other families emphasise sports so they see themselves a 'sporty family'; i have heard some parents say they are a 'strict family' or a 'ambitious family' we use labels in our language all the time, why are some people so touchy about the label AP? It's just describes an approach not a challenge to- or put down of other peoples parenting.

"My advice to the OP is parent however you see fit and don't listen to people who deride AP; or any method of parenting"

Parent however you see fit even at the detriment of others?
Is this an AP thing? nobody can encroach on your choices but it's okay for you to encroach on and disturb other people?

It really depends on the church. In our village there's a family service - my DD aged three used to run up and down and she would climb up to the pulpit. Sounds a nightmare, but others were doing it, the Vicar was very relaxed.

I'm not churchy at all and our occasional visits were because of his lovely chilled attitude. There was, however, a communion service where the elderly ladies of the village would have voiced their displeasure at such behaviour.

I'm sorry this woman was rude. If they want families to attend services there a certain amount of tolerance needed.

I was the same as you re parenting. Not now, I have two children and they are older. I just shout all the time

^Parent however you see fit even at the detriment of others?
Is this an AP thing? nobody can encroach on your choices but it's okay for you to encroach on and disturb other people?^

I don't follow your train of thought.

As far as I'm aware, AP doesn't encourage 'encroaching on and disturbing other people'.

Anyway, this isn't an AP issue; it's a church etiquette issue. And I know nothing of - and care little for - church etiquette.

I am sure kids were rowdy in church long before the attachment parenting starting getting bandied about.

I agree that church should be a place to sit and be quiet, because people who goes there expect this, I did used to go church every Sunday, until was difficult to keep a 4 and 3 years old quiet for more than 20 minutes! People used to come to me and say don't worry they will be fine if u keep coming! I miss church, but don't want to be sit down at back with the kids at play area! Kids ask me yesterday if they could go to church! I don't think u wrong, u just had a wrong person wrong comment! U shouldn't overreact( I did mention to my priest, and next Sunday he was talking about people judging other or looking what others are doing and not they own, I just look to the lady that runs the play area and agree)

As far as I'm aware, AP doesn't encourage 'encroaching on and disturbing other people

And that was my point!

There are lots of different kinds of churches, some are for people who go for the quiet pius meditation, some are all singing all dancing,…
the OP went to a church were people were trying to be quetly contemplative and allowed her child to behave differently to the rest of the congregation under the excuse of AP

That's not AP, that's just being obnoxious

Are there any churches/services out there for people who don't want children wandering about the place, even quietly, during the service?

You know, the old traditional ones? Or have they all closed from disuse?

(Disclaimer: I practise what is generally described as AP. My older dc were bf for 4.5 and 3 years respectively, little one is at 7 months and counting. Nos. 2 and 3 in particular were/are pretty much exclusively carried in slings as opposed to a pram, we co-slept/-sleep with all three, you get the picture)
I am guessing that many people's objections to self-described attachment parents stem from the way the philosophy (as evident in the name), and hence many of its proponents, tend to suggest that it is the only way to the formation of said secure attachments. Interestingly, somone above conflated non-APness with babies 'ending up' in childcare at 3 months, which is not a matter many parents have a lot of choice about (ask any US mother who needs her income, for example) - these sorts of attitudes have the potntial to be very hurtful. Parents (mothers) who describe themselves as 'attachment' parents often, I think, gain a sense of 'doing things right' from the label, which, rightly or wrongly, can come across as smugness and superiority to mothers doing things in what they perceive as a less 'attached' way.