Have labour missed an opportunity for not voting Andy Burnham as leader

[Slutbucket]

Not a corbyn hater I like him and think he is very principled in his ideology. However you see how Andy Burnham has conducted himself in the last week and challenged the Hillsborough enquiries and I can't help but think what if? He has showed that he is an excellent constituency MP, he's had experience as Secretary of State and I think he wouldn't be as divisive.

Why should I believe Burnham could beat Osborne? Without Murdoch on his (AB's) side the history books suggest otherwise.

If we had a free and fair press Osborne's economic failures would have been exposed.

Scotland got sick of Westminster politicians (they're all the same). Of course it was Labour who lost out to the SNP rout, the Tories are fossils in Scotland.

I can't get excited about Burnham, Cooper et al as I don't want more empty Blairite plaudits such as "we're all middle class now". I know JC will never have the support of the media but he is putting arguments on the table (about tax avoidance, poverty etc) and challenging Tory policy that Blairites would instead, probably agree with.

It's not a debating society, it is people's lives.

If "power" simply means Savile Row suits and empty plaudits then we have truly entered the age of anti intellectualism in British politics.

It's not a debating society, it is people's lives.

Yes and over the last 30 years the gap between rich and poor has been getting wider because neo liberal politicians espousing free market values have been getting elected. Vote Osborne or Blairite in 2020 for more of the same?

Tories are fossils in Scotland.

Yet again, no they aren't! They are about to become the second party behind the SNP.

Something that a few months ago wouldn't be even thought of.

Oh and I agree with posters. You can say and do what you want when in opposition. You have no way of implementing anything unless you are in government. It is that which some don't seem to get.

And if to get into power to change people's lives you need to wear a Saville row suit, and bow to the queen, then have some sense and do it. Because all of that is meaningless unless you can actually govern. I stopped caring about all that nonsense in my twenties. What I now care about is the gap between the rich and the poor. (We are on the same side, ghost). That gap was starting to alter under Blair, and small changes like Sure Start centres, minimum wage etc were chipping away at it, maybe not as fast or as daring as it should have been .. The last few years have smashed that to pieces. If Corbyn wins us an election, then I will be dancing in the streets, but that isn't going to happen, and that means the vulnerable suffer.

Yes Coolfor, Ruth Davidson is doing very well.

birdsdestiny

I agree with your sentiment. However if you look at Milliband he seemed to have one foot in the Blairite camp and another in the old Labour camp. He was very good on the housing crisis, for example but it didn't go far enough for me, possibly because he was worried about being branded "hard left". Add to that the tabloid smears.

It cannot be denied that alot of Labour voters got fed up with the New Labour moniker. Alot of voters in general became disillusioned with the 3 main parties complaining that they were all the same. As a result Labour got Corbyn and the press give him more stick than Milliband because he is actual opposing the neo liberal status quo. IIRC when Milliband was elected leader the press largely left him to his own devices until they ramped up the negativity before the GE.

Labour "moderates" are panicking because of media and New Labour negativity perceiving JC as unelectable. The panic leads to the rather lazy view that we should just revert to New Labour in order to stand a chance of being elected. That does not address voter disillusionment I mentioned above, nor does it even suggest Labour have a chance anyway with what amounts to a lame sell out in the hope it might appease the press.

I used to deal with Burnham in a professional capacity. He was relaxed, clever and delightful. His colleagues respected and really liked him. Nobody had a bad word to say about him, which was more than could be said for many other ministers' teams.

He was genuinely humble, despite being about six years old and extremely important.

Labour "moderates" are panicking

No they really aren't.

They are however getting very fed up with stuff like these past few days.

Frustrating doesn't even begin to cut it.

No one was forcing KL to go from interview to interview like a train wreck.

No. I admit inhaling read the thread here but I don't trust him a bit. His work for Hillsborough was, indeed, fantastic, but only after he was completely humiliated. It shouldn't have taken a crowd of jeering heartbroken Liverpudlians to make him smell the coffee and I've always felt that it was very self-serving....although a very difficult opinion to hold because the outcome of justice perhaps justifies the means. But no. I think Corbyn seems like a very decent man but would be eaten alive as PM. Alan Johnson.

• I haven't

This is an interesting debate Re:who can be just enough of a bastard not to frighten the horses but still care enough to try and look after the poor and disadvantaged. IMHO it highlights the ludicrous nature of the FPTP electoral system.

I think Corbyn seems like a very decent man but would be eaten alive as PM
What does that actually mean? Savaged by the Daily Heil? Ridiculed by braying hoorays from the Sir Bufton-Tufton wing of the Tory party - plus ca change - all PMs have to put up with that - why do you think Corbyn would be any more "eaten" as you strangely put it?

No, but he would like them to think they have. He will never be leader. Next leader will be Dan Jarvis.

Only thing I am panicking about is having a Tory party in power for another 9 years

having KL and Diane Abbott as close allies will never go down well with the public both very much disliked not that JC has taken any notice of that

having KL and Diane Abbott as close allies will never go down well with the public both very much disliked not that JC has taken any notice of that
Have you done a detailed opinion poll - or is this just one of your "everyone knows/man in the pub" assertions?

Next leader will be Dan Jarvis.

I think that is a good bet.

Another one to look out for in the future is Wes Streeting.

I actually think it was to Burnham's credit that he listened to the crowd that day, took on board why they were so scornful, and joined the cause. It would have been so tempting at the time to just ignore it or say there was really nothing he could do.

Ghost you keep ducking the question of preferring a Tory PM over a New Labour one. Like birds, I disagree that there is no difference, and like her I maintain that things were better for the poorest under New Labour. If you think that's a trivial difference, then the people in that group would disagree. They have really suffered.

neb you must be near me somewhere, the guided busway was a joke and AB didn't give a toss.

I'm not a Leigh constituent, I'm just outside the boundary. I'm sure he's a perfectly nice man but he's not leader of the LP for me. Corbyn isn't either.

Yes Coolfor, Ruth Davidson is doing very well.

Or perhaps more accurately, Ruth Davidson is doing quite well and Kezia Dugdale is doing fucking dreadfully. Kezia Dugdale looks like she's on work experience and has been asked to mind the phone whilst everyone is out for lunch and a large and unexpected crisis has just happened.

TendonQueen

Under Blair house prices spiraled out of control. Social houses could have been built. Private renting could have been reformed. Privatisation - the hallmark of Thatcherism continued. Yes, there was Surestart, yes there was the Good Friday Agreement but after 18 years of Tory rule New Labour turned out to be a false dawn. The underlining theme of New Labour was right wing mantra of the "aspiration nation" and the general false prophecies of the free market.

It is utterly depressing to be told that I must acquiesce to Blairism (centre right politics) in order to avoid er, a centre right Tory government in 2020.

I think Andy Burnham has been fantastic on the Hillsborough issue. But then I also think Theresa May has shown great integrity over the issue. She has gone out of her way to release as many documents as possible including many previously redacted stuff. She has opted for complete transparency on the issue and her statement to the House this week could have simply been concise and factual but instead was full of praise for the families and criticism for SYP.
I don't agree with her politics but I have new found admiration for her over this. Likewise AB's passion and eloquence over Hillsborough does not a PM make.

I'd vote for Alan J in a heartbeat. So would DH and he's a current Tory voter but very easily swayed by integrity. He said the other night he sees it clearly in AJ but not at all in JC. I think it's all the apologising for his own beliefs such as the whole national anthem debacle. You don't agree with in in principle; fine. But don't bloody listen to the BS and come out grovelling a few days later and now start singing the bastard! You make yourself look like look like a spoon!

God yes, Ghost, couldn't agree more.

What are Labour going to do about Scotland, though? They can't win without us and they've managed to utterly self-sabotage themselves here. So how will the UK ever have a winning Labour government? I like Jeremy Corbyn, btw.

Plus Laura Kuenssberg totally dismantled Jeremy Corbyn. How could he assume the office without understanding anything about the role including any Privy Council obligations?

minimover
LK is a joke as the BBC's political editor - she makes Nick Robinson look like a raving leftie. And the PC has absolutely no place in a mature democracy. As for TM, yes her speech was great but remember she's been trying to take the police on since she became HS and Hillsborough is her golden chance. It was Thatcher that bought the police and made them feel they could act with impunity as they did and TM may well put that finally right - will she go anything about Orgreave though?