Have labour missed an opportunity for not voting Andy Burnham as leader

[Slutbucket]

Not a corbyn hater I like him and think he is very principled in his ideology. However you see how Andy Burnham has conducted himself in the last week and challenged the Hillsborough enquiries and I can't help but think what if? He has showed that he is an excellent constituency MP, he's had experience as Secretary of State and I think he wouldn't be as divisive.

nebulae thats appalling Ppl must have been furious

Ghost am loving your posts - each time I come on to make a point, you've just made it and very eloquently

They still are Helena. Nobody wanted the busway in the first place but as usual the powers that be ignored what the people actually wanted. You won't find many people singing his praises in his own constituency.

How on earth has it got to the stage where one octogenarian megalomaniac decides in effect the outcome of UK general elections? How can one man wield do much power, and people accept it?

If we don't gain next week JC will be gone

Next week will be a disaster for Labour. Electing Corbyn was a disaster. Kezia Dugdale is doing her best in Scotland but the Conservatives under Ruth Davidson are set to be the 2nd party. They are the only viable opposition to the SNP.

Corbyn can have as many principles as he likes, they are utterly useless if he is not in power. I love the way those on the left of the party cry that they don't want another blairite leader, when he was the only labour leader of recent times to actually give labour the opportunity to govern. Corbyn will never be PM, so what is the point. It smacks to me of student politics, shouting from the sidelines will not help the poor and vulnerable.

As I keep saying JC was overwhelmingly democratically elected by party membership. There is no appetite for a return to New Labour from the man on the street.

You are confusing Labour party members with the electorate generally. I am a Labour party member and did not vote for Corbyn. He is even more of a disaster than I expected.

There may be little enthusiasm for a return to New Labour amongst a majority of the members of the Labour party. Clearly the parliamentary Labour party have no enthusiasm for Corbyn and the electorate as a whole has almost none.

I want another Blair.

Me too Lass.

Apologies Enthusiasm and Ghost for putting the wrong name.

birds totally agree. If Labour are not electable, and Osborne, Boris, May or similar win in 2020, those suffering the most under this government will be even worse off. I get the impression sometimes that there are Labour voters who'd rather see any of the above in power than a more centrist Labour leader. It does make a difference. Add me to the list of people who'd like another Blair.

We already have another Blair in the form of David Cameron.

I find it depressing that so many people are seduced by the second hand car salesman schtick and the expensive suits.

TendonQueen

Milliband was centrist and completely pillored by the gutter press.

People (including those on the right) claimed David Milliband would have been better but I've never heard a reason why. Now apparently JC is the "wrong man". So we've had Brown (New Labour), Milliband (centrist) and JC (left) all apparently "the wrong men". Or maybe its just a concerted campaign to keep Labour (from "Red Ed" to "Comrade Corbyn") out.

Jeremy Corbyn and his supporters need to grow up and take responsibility for words and actions.

I have been aware of Corbyn for many years and it's not reading the daily mail's take on him that means I will never vote for him. I happen to agree with a lot of what he says on the economic side but he is a part of that group of latter day don Quixote's who are obsessed with foreign policy and sucking up to men with weapons to the detriment of doing tangible work at home bar buying a fair trade coffee.

Ghost am loving your posts - each time I come on to make a point, you've just made it and very eloquently

Thank you, I do may best swimming against the tide of right wing hyperbole.

Those who support Corbyn why do you think he is in the Labour Party?

His views are far more in line with socialist labour so why isn't he is the socialist Labour Party ?

And it this that sort of talk that people can't see past that car salesman who is supported by he tabloids that the far left like to throw out and all they do is push voters away they are not so stupid

DM is centre of the party, good public speaker, wasn't constantly rebelling against the party he stood for, hasn't shared platforms (to my knowledge) with very questionable people and not constantly fighting me for the underdog and so blinded by the cause to not see able I see at times they are hurting people too

JC as someone else said has not moved on from student politics ffs even his statements are no more detailed than my a level sociology ramblings

Ghost I never said he wasn't. I'd agree that the majority of the press is right wing and that any Labour leader will be criticised, often on spurious grounds (bacon sandwich etc). But what I said was about Corbyn supporters' attitudes to centrist Labour members, which is that it seems they'd rather see the Tories in power than a centrist from Labour. There was a union leader who said as much after the election, that it was worth losing because 'we've got our party back'. Where do you stand on that? Do you think it was better that Ed M lost because now Corbyn is leader? Would you rather see Osborne as PM than Burnham if that were the choice in 2020?

FWIW I wouldn't want David M back now. But I think Ed M would have made a good prime minister - heartbreaking now to look at what he gave instead. It's easy to forget that the Tories have a very narrow majority. It was presented (again, the media playing a role in this) as a rout. It wasn't: it was a narrow victory. Labour did not get it massively wrong (Scotland is the key problem) and a swing to the hard left is not going to win next time. It's more lively to send the electorate the other way and land us with Osborne.

The thing is Scotland is going to continue to be the problem. It is looking extremely likely that Tories will become the second party on Scotland behind SNP with Labour third.

In Wales numbers may slip also.

No point either in saying 'the SNP are further left and they won in Scotland'. Different case. Labour need Middle England votes and ideally Scotland, but the latter's going to be a lot harder than the former and simply moving to the left won't solve either problem.

Exactly Cool. The logic espoused here by Ghost ought to mean Labour in the running in Scotland. But they're not.

I was very impressed by him when I saw him on Question Time this week.

I didn't know much about him before, but I think maybe he would have been a better choice than Jeremy Corbyn.

I also think David Milliband would have been a better choice than Ed.

and a swing to the hard left is not going to win next time. It's more lively to send the electorate the other way and land us with Osborne.

Hard left? You've fallen into the media trap. Corbyn is not "hard left" he is left. Nobody ever says UKIP are hard right. It is a media collaboration to alienate Corbyn and portray his policies as out of touch. There is a groundswell of support for an alternative voice, not just in the UK but the US too (look at Sanders).

What happens if Corbyn is ousted? We get a "centrist", we get a split in the party and we hand the right wing press an open goal.

If a Labour centrist was to win in 2020 what would that mean? A return to Blairism - Torylite. There are many, many Labour voters who became disillusioned with New Labour why whould they want a return? The Con-Lib Dem coalition shows how closely aligned the three parties can be. This leaves millions of people disillusioned with British politics - hence apathy, hence the rise of other parties.

As for Osborne becoming PM if people are daft enough to vote for a man who has been an unmitigated disaster as chancellor, then they deserve everything they get. Absolutely nothing.

If anyone from the last Labour cabinet eg AB, YC had become leader instead of JC, they would have been equally rubbished by most of the media just because. It's hard being a Labour leader because the cards are stacked against you unless you jump into bed with Murdoch, as Blair did. AB would have had North Staffs shouted at him every time he opened his mouth and YC would have been constantly linked to EB. What I do respect AB for is that he did accept a post in the shadow cabinet and has behaved well ( at least in public which is helpful!). He has been impressive over Hillsborough but as some others have said, that doesn't equate with bring a leader, although that might happen. ATM I'm more interested in what will happen after June 23. Either way, there will be a bloodbath with the Tories

Ghost I see you didn't answer my 'Burnham or Osborne' question. And if Osborne gets in, you're really going to say 'stupid voters, they deserved it' not 'we should have been a better opposition'?

There's a split in the party now. The open goal is already, well, open.

There are many, many Labour voters who became disillusioned with New Labour why whould they want a return?

There are many many Labour voters that also don't want JC.

Look what is happening in Scotland and Wales, as has been said.

These are the areas that Labour need to win. It isn't happening.

Yes the poor, disabled, etc deserve all they get. Rather a left wing leader in opposition, then a centrist in you know actual power. People will vote for Osbourne rather than Cornyn but what do the left of the party care, as long as they stick to their principles. It will be the poor who are paying for these principles.