JF96 YNWA

[Bearlyknitted]

27 years. Justice at last.

I feel really happy and really sad for the victims families at the same time. What a horrible scandal. I'm glad there is finally some kind of justice. The families have done amazingly to keep fighting for the truth.

JFT96. I was only 5 at the time but I remember it being on the TV and my Dad saying 'it looked bad' I remember being a little older and watching the harrowing but brilliant Jimmy McGovern documentary for the first time and sobbing throughout. I'm now older still, a fully grown adult with children of my own and still the events of Hillsborough as a football fan myself (and just as a human really) are enough to bring me to tears. I'm not Scouse, I'm not a Liverpool supporter, I know none of the people there that day but I'll never forget and I'm relieved that finally justice can begin to be served for the tragic events that day. Nobody should ever go out to watch a game of football and not return. Nobody.

I have no connection to this tragedy but I have 'followed it' over the years.

I was in floods yesterday.

All credit to the survivors, familes and friends who refused to be silenced, even in the face of huge 'establishment' opposition.

27 years for an obvious, televised, lie to be proven a lie.

I often feel ashamed to live in the UK (re this scandal, and the child sex abuse scandals and others I am sure we are unaware of at present)
and feel nothing but respect for those who have fought so bravely.

The amazing Anne Williams was on This Morning today. What she said really struck me about the effect this has had (aside from the obvious of course) was this 'before that day I always told my children, if you're in trouble or need help, go and see the police. I wouldn't say that to my grandchild'.

Devastating.

If anyone is interested there is a great clip of James O Brien laying into Mackenzie on LBC this morning - you can easily find the clip if you log onto LBC radio. I don't always agree with James O B but in this instance he is spot on.

Sundefender - I think you are being naïve, shall we say. The Sun has always been notorious for its vile hyperbole and nowhere is this more evident than in that awful headline and the articles they published pertaining to Hillsborough. Please don't think that they were innocently hoodwinked - they took a decision to publish that filth because they were a pillar of Thatcherism which fervently hated, among others, miners, left wingers and Liverpudlians. Factor in also, if you will, the hatred of football fans in general - and there it is; a perfect storm of two of the most hated groups in Britain- Liverpudlians and football fans. I bet Mackenzie thought all his Christmases had come at once, the cunt.

Please also remember that the ownerof this shit-wipe, Murdoch, paid people to hack Milly Dowler's phone. Among many, many other moral crimes.

JFT96 YNWA

I was 20 and living abroad. I got in from work and went straight out so wasn't aware until the next day. It was on the news. Quite a short piece and based on the S*n view and police statements etc - don't know where they got info from.

I knew. Without a doubt. I knew - this is not what happened. Liverpool born and bred - we live with the stereotype every day (yes, we are huge victims bla bla bla whatever) but we know our city and we know our people. And what was unfolding was not possible in the universe I live in. And I knew this - absolutely.

I couldn't get in touch with anyone. Phones either engaged or not answered. I was terrified of what terrible news may come over the next 24 hrs. I didn't sleep much.

The next day, the tv news apologised unreservedly about the coverage the previous evening saying that it was unclear what happened but it was not how they had described the day before. A TV CHANNEL 1600 MILES AWAY WAS ABLE TO SOURCE CHECK AND CORRECT WHAT THEY HAD SAID. THEY TOOK RESPONSIBILITY AND APOLOGISED. This is one of the hundreds - literally hundreds - of reasons the S*n is hated so much - their reputation and possible consequences were more important than admitting they'd made a mistake. Even now, they have never published that they lied. It was OK to plaster 'The Truth' in ginourmous font but not to apologise and admit mistakes and lies.

What happened that day was humanely the lowest of the low outside of war atrocities. Instead of helping, the police took a 'defensive' stance (against dying or dead people - but hey!). It was up to the players and the fans to try and save the lives of people - watching them die slowly and horribly, twisted, broken bones, skin torn off their bodies, purple through lack of air, burst blood vessels, half naked, bleeding, moaning, begging for help. And the police stood by. Watching. Fans tore placards from the edge of the stands to use as stretchers. And the police stood by. Watching. Finally, one of them suddenly saw the reality of what was happening and broke ranks. Humanity took over. Thankfully, this gave others courage too.

Then those in charge - realising they'd fucked up to the highest degree, BEFORE THE DEAD HAD EVEN BEEN COUNTED. WHILST THE HORROR WAS STILL UNFOLDING, WHILST THE 30 - 40 CHILDREN'S BODIES WERE BEING LINED UP ALONG WITH THE 40 - 50 OTHER POOR SOULS - THOSE IN CHARGE BEGAN FABRICATING THEIR COVER UP

Liverpool and those who stood by her fighting for JFT96 acted with dignity, grace, honour, perseverence throughout the 27 years. Never gave up. This was about more than Hillsborough.

This is one of the most important legal battles in recent history. Not only for the 96 but for the whole nation. JFT96 made it clear to police, government, media that NO ONE IS OUTSIDE OF THE LAW. EVERYONE IS ACCOUNTABLE.

Most importantly, JFT96 showed us all that if we stand together, we can and will win.

Modern society has spent the last 20-40 years being brainwashed to hate. Hate lazy, scum scousers, hate lazy drunken 'x', hate immigrants stealing our jobs, hate refugees taking our medicine, hate murdering muslims, hate abnormal gays, hate women who ask for it, hate black boys in hoodies, hate differences. And sadly, without even realising it, most of society buys into this in one way or another. And all it does is make us weak. If we hate one another, we won't stand together. If we don't stand together, we can't make a stand (it's obvious!), if we can't make a stand, we have no power, if we have no power - we can't fight for justice, we can't send our message, we can't protect our rights.

It's the oldest but still most effective method of control. Divide and conquer.

JFT96 showed that with determination - we will not be divided and justice will win through. This is only the beginning. The verdict is what was needed to start the next chapter: Accountability, responsibility, legal process, guilt punished in the same way it is for everyone else in our society.

One of the saddest and most frustrating things to come out of the verdict is how many people have no idea what JFT96 YNWA means. This has been on the news on and off for 27 years. 40 children died. 96 people never went home from a football match. This is probably the most important judicial process to have taken place in the last 100 years at least. what planet are people living on? Not a confrontation in any way before anyone jumps on that. Just a sad fact. After 27 years of retelling the horrors again and again and asking that those we trust with our governance and policing again and again to admit they lied and still people are unaware. Very sad

the fact that a poster with the name s-ndefender has posted on this thread says everything I need to know about that person. And that's before even reading the naive, awkward, uninformed, 'clunky' comments.

At best, it's simply complete lack of respect, understanding, compassion and, well, basic humanity and naive beyond comprehension. At worst, it's a purposeful passive aggressive goading and vie for attention. I' hope it's the former. Whatever it is, it's not clever and it's transparent.

FYI SD: your opinion on this is completely inconsequential. If you respond, know that it will have zero impact. I felt compelled to say something and regret engaging even before I click 'post message' but as I said, compelled

Absolutely horrified at the tweets from the Vice President of Carlisle football club. He claims he's been hacked but I sincerely doubt it.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/liverpool-news/sick-hillsborough-messages-sent-twitter-11247435

But no one I know, who lived through the miners strike and the eighties ever believed the police lies. The police absolutely treated ordinary people like scum back then

Not much has changed.

Scumdefender
Have a look at the other papers from the same day.

hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/PRE000000420001.pdf
hillsborough.independent.gov.uk/repository/docs/SWF000002450001.pdf

Whilst some headlines were not sensitive, things like 'Killer crush' and others stating "reports of..." only the sun used the headline 'The Truth'. Every news outlet was given the same story but most chose to concentrate on the tragedy, on the dead and injured, of families.

In the weeks after TV news showed people leaving scarves and flowers, linking arms, attending church ceremonies and funerals.

This is a good article. The cover up and denial was so orchestrated.

www.liverpoolecho.co.uk/news/two-doctors-who-criticised-hillsborough-11249313

I'm from Liverpool and was 11 years old when this happened.
I am seriously haunted by the song "eternal flame" by the bangles, think it ewe number one that weekend.
I have to switch it off if I hear it.

I knew the youngest victim, he was 10 :(
I never thought that justice would come, what it means to this city is priceless, the families who've endured lies after lies over their loved ones and the strength and determination shown is so admirable.
We will never forget that day.

Does anyone else feel guilty and more than a bit dirty about how easy the lies were to believe? I remember seeing the footage from the match live (aged 11) and it was so so easy to believe that fans without tickets had broken in caused their own problems and deaths.

It really makes me wonder who I am believing media/police lies about today.

mammamic - that is an important post.

This is chiefly important for the 96
(and those who died after due to suicide) and those whose lives were forever altered, as survivors and families and friends and coworkers and communities.

but it is also important for British Society as a whole.

The Govt / The Police / the 'authorities' don't always behave competently or correctly. They then tend to lie and collude and cover up. The bigger the balls-up the bigger the lie the bigger the cover up. This is being seen time and again.

Of course there are decent competent people in the 'establishment' /Police.
But when it goes wrong, the reputations and very lives of ordinary people are of no account compared to the importance of covering up the reputations of those in power.

I know it's been mentioned before but here is a link to the Jimmy McGovern docudrama. One of the most powerful pieces of tv I have ever watched and even as a young teen I 'got' what the families were fighting for. JFT96 YWNA

m.youtube.com/watch?v=QEbZwn5VSiQ

IceBeing this is exactly the point. We are fed these lies every day and it is purely to divert our anger from the offensively rich boys's clubs running our society (or the world if we look at the extreme) so that we stay 'controlled'.

After various huge 'stories' i stopped reading any newspapers regularly. I want to make up my own mind - not accept verbatim what Murdoch and his ilk are feeding me.

I watch/read about events from lots of difference sources and then try to work out what are the facts. It's the only way to really get anywhere near the actual truth.

and it's not just media/police - the conservative government played a huge part in this for the full 27 years. Have a look what Cameron said yesterday, then look at what he said 2 yrs ago

The determination and courage that these families have shown, especially when all odds were against their quest for justice, has - at last - been rewarded with the correct verdict.

I admire greatly their determination to achieve justice for the people who were lost at Hillsborough.

The police absolutely treated ordinary people like scum back then.

Well yes, but they were pawns as well as actors, if you see what I mean. Orgreave and other horrible confrontations (Wapping also springs to mind) were policed by a lot of officers drafted in from around the country who did not have riot or even crowd control training necessarily. They were frightened, bewildered, and completely used in confrontations that would not have occurred if the politicians on all sides had the will to broker the political solutions that were required.

One of those officers was the father of a school friend of mine. He told me years later about how his father was always away being bussed to protests, was stressed almost to breaking point, afraid, angry with the miners and angry at being exploited by the powers that be. It put enormous strain on his parents' marriage. This was a middle-aged copper from a semi-rural posting who had no idea what he was getting into.

The experience stopped my friend from joining the police, as he had always wanted to do.

WindPowerRanger

This wasn't a protest. It was a football match. The police weren't bussed in. They were local SY police.

I'm not getting the connection between the thread and your comment. I agree with what you say, however cannot see the significance of the comment

Wheelofapps spot on.

we all make mistakes - it's called being human. It's the taking responsibility and showing remorse that is more important.

Thank you

Oh for God's sake, mammamic, I know Hillsborough was not a protest and the police there that day were not bussed in. Bog right off with that condescending statement.

You made a general comment that at that time, police treated ordinary people like scum (and I agree with that, as it happens, and with the rest of your post). Other people, including wheelofapps also made good general points.

I responded to say, effectively, that the police at the time were pawns as well as actors.

Ultimately, the blame lies with politicians who cynically used the police and just as cynically assisted the police to cover up what really happened to the 96 for sinister political reasons.

It seemed pretty clear to me WindPowerRanger. In the 80s the government identified enemies and then would bring the police into conflict with the enemies with people being harmed in the resultant battles. To keep the police on side, the government would provide cover so that the police would not be held to account for their actions.

At Hillsborough, the police ended up in conflict with the Liverpool supporters, although not in a physical confrontation. The police did what they always did, they attacked knowing that they'd be backed up because they always were and also the government would place itself on the side against "football hooligans".

During this terrible time lots of people were hurt, including individual policemen and women.

Exactly, nauticant, thank you.

The police would do well to remember the shit they took on behalf of government, as well as the fact that that government showed little long-term loyalty to them, because it seems to me (sadly) that the sort of poisonous politics and social division we suffered in the 1980s are poised to return.

I'm not holding my breath though. Nowadays the flash points are different-Yarl's Wood Detention Centre? student fees protests? G8?-but the 'othering' and denigration of specific groups is rampant and the police show few signs of increased political canniness.

I live in Sheffield, and I was a bit at our local paper's headline, which was a black front page with 'Sheffield in the Dock'. No-one decent in this city thinks that way. There is an enormous amount of sympathy here with the families of the 96, and the feeling is very much that SY police are to blame, not just for this but also for the horrors of Orgreave and (more recently) the child sexual exploitation scandal. I doubt there is another organisation in the country, in fact, that is imbricated in so much corruption, so many lies, and such disgraceful behaviour as SY police. They are a disgrace.

mmammnic the latest group experiencing the hate is social housing tenants.

People never learn