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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

JF96 YNWA

421 replies

Bearlyknitted · 26/04/2016 12:32

27 years. Justice at last.

OP posts:
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SlimCheesy · 29/04/2016 12:46

[I mean in addition to every other bloody miscarriage of justice associated with the event].

SlimCheesy · 29/04/2016 12:49

sorry, been mentioned already. Blush

SatsukiKusakabe · 29/04/2016 13:03

Hearing the accounts of the people that were there, or had loved ones there, and then to think of what they have been through since trying to establish justice, I can only think that people who can still apportion blame to the fans must be ignorant of what went on. I can't comprehend the compassion vacuum you'd have to have inside to want to add to the grief and trauma of these people by trying to say they were somehow responsible.

misskelly · 29/04/2016 13:48

The radio 5 podcast is very upsetting, I don't know how you would get over surviving an avent like that. I feel sad that those who did survive never had there story acknowledged because of all the mud slinging and blame going on.

misskelly · 29/04/2016 13:49

*their story.

stugtank · 29/04/2016 14:47

I've been reading obsessively too. I was 10 at the time.

I don't follow football but this isn't about football.

I often wonder about George Orwell's 1984. It seems eerily accurate given the truths that are coming out from that era.

Class war, institutional child abuse, police acting as servants of Thatcher's establishment rather than protectors of the people, history being fabricated to fit suitable narratives etc.

Everything that was evil and awful about the 1980s coalesced in Hillsborough. It chills me to the bone. And when I look at my ds the same age as the youngest victim - it makes me cry.

They were kids for fuck sake. And the police were taking blood samples for alcohol before their bodies were cold.

Everyone should read and know about this. Great lessons can be learnt but sadly I fear they won't.

sashh · 29/04/2016 14:55

I can't comprehend the compassion vacuum you'd have to have inside to want to add to the grief and trauma of these people by trying to say they were somehow responsible.

Unfortunately I can.

I have even heard Liverpool fans being 'blamed' for getting rid of standing terraces.

WindPowerRanger · 29/04/2016 15:05

The Hillsborough negligence is even worse when you consider that the events at Heysel had been investigated, and we knew that (i) a stadium in poor repair and without good safety measures; plus (ii) inadequate numbers of police and lack of police leadership had all played their part in the tragedy.

It was a 'known known' that a crush could happen at Hillsborough, and that if it did people could die in numbers. It remains staggering that even so, the local police didn't care to act to avoid it. What else are police for?

Badbadbunny · 29/04/2016 16:02

Events that attract large crowds can be very scary places, and inexperienced marshalling can make things go from bad to worse...I was once caught in a small scale crush at a music festival once, a very very scary experience.

Very true indeed. Back in the 80's I was a special constable. Back then, we were used extensively at events such as carnivals, festivals, etc. Our general "training" for dealing with traffic control and crowds etc was pitiful! Worse still, we'd get little or no briefing for each event we went to. It was a matter of just turning up and doing what we were told, i.e. stand at junction x to direct traffic or stand at gate y to help make sure people didn't get in without a ticket. We had no briefing as to our role in an emergency. More often that not, there wouldn't be enough radios to go round so we'd be lucky to have 1 radio between 2 or 3 of us.

Once, I turned up to the local agricultural show to find I was the "officer in charge" - yes, there were NO regular police officers there, and just because I was the longest serving special (3 years and a couple of hundred hours of service), I was "in charge" of about a dozen other specials and a handful of traffic wardens. It really was just a case of muddling through and hoping nothing went wrong. Yes, I know a local agricultural show was ultra low risk, but we still had a few hundred cars to manage on local roads and a few thousand people/competitors to deal with.

But the worst was at a local football match. OK, yes, it was a non league team with no history of problems and relatively small fan numbers. Specials had never been required at the local stadium and I'd never been as a spectator, so I had no idea as to layout, exits, etc. The usual "police" attendance was a couple of bobbies in the ground and a traffic car driving around close by to watch for illegal parking etc. One week, the local station was short staffed as all spare officers had gone to Blackpool for a political conference. Specials had been requested to help cover the Tuesday night football match (which turned out to be an early stage cup match) and myself and another special had volunteered to turn out for it. We turned up at the station to sign in and expected some kind of briefing or allocation to work with regulars, but the only "officer" was an acting sergeant who just told us to walk down to the ground and mingle a bit - yes, that was the only briefing we had! When we turned up, it was bedlam, I later found out that the attendance was 5,000 against a normal turnout of 500 and 5,000 was the ground's capacity. So it was full. We radio'd the acting sergeant to tell him, but he just told us to radio back if anything went wrong!! Luckily, nothing did go wrong, but I really shudder to think what could have happened!

BertieBotts · 29/04/2016 17:17

This is interesting. A US documentary on Hillsborough, extremely good. Apparently it wasn't allowed to be viewed in the UK until yesterday.

It does contain a couple of images of deceased people. Not the most distressing images which are out there - they had been careful to crop, blur, or omit but there are visible bodies in a few scenes.

It's 1 hour 45 minutes long but worth watching. I hadn't realised before that the families were disbelieved for so long :(

Bearlyknitted · 29/04/2016 22:08

BertieBotts Thankyou so very much for posting that link. The film is excellent. Probably the best thing I've seen regarding the technical detail of the inquiry. God love Andy Burnham for pushing this through. And God bless Prof. Scraton. I've no idea how he and the Hillsborough Independent Panel found the strength to keep wading through the endless mire in front of them, but they did it.

I'm covered in goosebumps after watching that, I can't recommend it more highly.

Justice. For the 96.

OP posts:
anonacfr · 29/04/2016 22:15

What a powerful documentary. I stopped watching after poor Doreen Jones described how she was allowed to cuddle her dead son because he was a property of the coroner... there are no words.

BertieBotts · 30/04/2016 11:00

Seeing Andy Burnham become emotional at the memorial was an incredible moment. The whole thing is just unforgettable.

SatsukiKusakabe · 30/04/2016 11:12

Thanks for the link to that documentary, bertie dh and I watched it last night. I'd seen the bbc Panorama etc but this was more detailed on the recent findings and the Police (lack of) strategy and the events leading up to it. Was in tears several times. Incredible in many ways.

LittleMissBossyBoots · 30/04/2016 16:29

Thanks from me too. We watched it earlier. Very interesting.

Narp · 30/04/2016 21:28

DH and I just watched it. Very moving

Moments of disbelief - the questioning of the relatives after they've identified the bodies

AdoraBell · 30/04/2016 21:30

Another thank you Bertie I'd watched a Panorama but this showed just how bad the officer in charge was. The press conference Shock -match between Liverpool and er Nottinghamshire, er- and another office had to tell him who Liverpool were playing. Showes the level of preperration. And then he just didn't do the job he was sent to do.

BertieBotts · 30/04/2016 23:12

I know. I mean, I read in the Guardian article that he'd only been put on the job a few weeks before and that he was inexperienced and thought perhaps he'd just frozen and not really known what to do, but the level of unpreparedness is just shocking. When he knew he was responsible for the safety of so many people, that it was such a big event and he just didn't bother? And he's got away with it for all this time.

I have to say that when I hear about things like this - big cover ups where the truth comes out years later, it brings up two feelings. One the anger that there's so much corruption within organisations which are supposed to exist to keep people safe, and two a kind of satisfaction that the truth comes out in the end and you can't keep something so wrong hidden forever. I think there will be a lot more to come out over the next few decades and it's so frustratingly slow at the moment. People do complain now about red tape and paperwork but perhaps it's better that bodies such as this are held accountable? Hard to tell :(

lbsjob87 · 30/04/2016 23:19

Hillsborough happened on my 13th birthday. I just turned 40. And only now do those families get some kind of closure.
Incredible.

Follyfoot · 30/04/2016 23:40

The time it has taken for the families to get - some sort of - justice is a disgrace. Hopefully prosecutions, and convictions, will follow.

I think the moment that shocked me more than any other when archive footage was shown, was seeing the line of police and police dogs stretched right across the pitch whilst people were dying behind those perimeter fences. Those police should have been helping at the Leppings Lane end, not bloody standing there. Then again, given that the police called for dog handlers before they called for ambulances, I suppose I shouldnt be shocked.

One person who is never named for his tireless work supporting the Hillsborough families is the journalist David Conn. He hasn't been given the credit he deserves.

HelenaDove · 30/04/2016 23:53

People like David Conn give me hope for the future of journalism. PROPER investigative journalism ppl like John Pilger used to do.

I quite like John Harris who works for the Guardian too.

Narp · 01/05/2016 05:51

I wonder about David Duckenfield

To come up with a lie within minutes if realising his mistake. To have felt the terrible effects of that. And then to have lived with that and not admitted openly and apologised, for decades. What sort of mental processes go into constructing and then perpetuating that lie?

I can't fathom that a person can have no conscience about that - unless he's a psychopath. Or do they start to believe their lie?

I don't think it's too strong to say that he tortured those survivors and the victim's families, and the police officers whose statements were doctored. How can anyone live with that?

TheDowagerCuntess · 01/05/2016 06:48

Gosh, I'm from the other side of the world, and not a football fan in the slightest, and I knew what the thread was about, before opening it.

I don't understand how, or why, the lies were perpetuated for so long. The footage clearly shows nothing more, or less, than people pouring into the grounds.

There is no bad behaviour. No drunken behaviour. No (raucous) shouting, nothing. How were they able to say that there were people urinating on dead bodies, or that it was in anyway the fault of the fans? It is quite clear that those things didn't happen.

Why has it taken so long for justice to be served, and what possible reason could the Sun have had to fabricate such cruel lies?

I hate the Sun anyway, but when I learnt of their involvement in this tragedy (I don't remember it from the time - I was about 14 or 15, and it was too far away), my opinion was sealed. The sooner they go under, the better.

Narp · 01/05/2016 07:04

TheDowager

They were pushing at an open door in the public's mind in believing terrible things of football fans. Hooliganism was a problem at the time.

The Sun - well I think the Sun was a mouthpiece of Margaret Thatcher's government. Liverpool was staunchly left wing. I think a whole mythology was built up about working-class Northerners vs the police during the miner's strike earlier in the 1980s

And I think later in the film you see that patronising attitude from Southern judges

Roseanddagger · 01/05/2016 07:48

So proud to see my clubs fans sing YNWA yesterday in a tribute to the 96.

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