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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Housework - who ibu?

370 replies

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 12:44

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

OP posts:
nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 14:24

There's one sentence you've written that suggests this issue is just the tip of the iceberg for you. After repeatedly pointing out that you've supported him for 2 years, you say: there are no circumstances in which I would be willing to financially rely on my DP if I wasn't caring for children (or disability/other unforeseen circumstance). How exactly do you reconcile those 2 things, and maintain respect for your fiancé?

Yeah it's a good point, I think it's fair to pick up on that. I definitely DO respect him - he is amazing and very talented, and mostly wonderful. I think that I didn't expect I would be supporting him for this long, but in itself I don't have a problem with it. I really think I wouldn't have a problem at all if he didn't really, really often bring up messiness when I feel that the whole reason for this messiness is that I am doing a job which is directly facilitating his being able to achieve his goals if that makes sense. So I completely, completely agree with the spirit of the comments saying it is dickish and horrible to bring money into it. But at the same time, I do feel like he doesn't recognise like my hard work is the whole reason he has a flat to work in in the first place. I know putting it like that makes me sound horrible.

OP posts:
Paleninteresting · 24/04/2016 14:27

Then take the money out of it. He has more free time, you are under pressure, why can't he help out more?

FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 14:28

I think your problem is more one of male self entitlement, one from someone who resents to have to do a 'woman' job of tidying up and is digging his heels in to do so.

That's why he is acting so offended and why he doesn't want to discuss it.

He knows he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 24/04/2016 14:30

It really does OPSad

I agree with Hermione, pick your stuff up, he's not asking you to clean just be a bit considerate.

P1nkP0ppy · 24/04/2016 14:32

Leaving dirty crockery hanging around for days is slovenly, it takes a few minutes to wash, dry and put away. Dragging up that you're financially supporting him must really rankle, you must have agreed to this at the onset? He probably feels totally unrestricted I imagine.
I was the main breadwinner plus did virtually all the childcare/housework/ gardening etc, etc for years, yes it did irritate me but that's life.

Suck it up op.

HermioneJeanGranger · 24/04/2016 14:32

Why should the DP clear up her mess, though?

Throwing laundry on, hoovering etc. fine - he'd have to do that anyway, but why should he pick up all her stuff when she's perfectly capable of doing it herself?

When SAHM's post about how their DH leaves a trail of mess in his wake, everyone is adamant that she shouldn't pick up after her partners and that even though the DH works, he's still capable of of putting his stuff away properly.

Not having time to vacuum or whatever is fine, but I don't buy that people don't have five minutes to put things back where they belong.

whois · 24/04/2016 14:32

Cleaners clean they don't tidy up after You

Wrong. There are many people who provide cleaning services that are happy to tidy up, do washing up etc. Obviously this eats into 'cleaning' time but as long as both sides are happy it's totally normal.

FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 14:32

Btw I fully agree that he needs to show he appreciate the efforts you are making and how your work (and the very long hours you are ding) benefits him.

I'm not talking about bringing 'money' but just appreciating that wo the OP's support, he would have struggled to do his PhD etc...

Imo, living together and getting married is about supporting each other. It's also taking the LT view.
If you are asking himk now to clean 'after you', take the cups of tea in the sink and clean them etc... Will you also be happy to do that when you are on ML and he is working (assuming you want a DC)? Or would you want a more 50/50 separation of tasks so that he is pitching in and leaving stuff around when he is working and you're not?

Paleninteresting · 24/04/2016 14:33

I have x DCs, a full time job and I'm doing a PhD. If my partner did not do things when he saw them we would be in a mess, very quickly.
Money is not the issue here, help, love and support is.
A good system in the morning may be better for you though.
He is being a dick.

HermioneJeanGranger · 24/04/2016 14:33

*partners mess, that should say.

Backingvocals · 24/04/2016 14:36

Ok but 2-3 hours at home every day is plenty to enable you to wash up after a meal and still sit down on the sofa. Life will get a lot tougher if you have kids.

I would think getting washing up done after every meal is pretty essential. As I said, I'm naturally messy but dirty cups and pots and plates hanging around does make the whole place feel really slovenly. One of the good things about a dishwasher is not just that it does the washing up but it's a place to hide the dirty stuff. Without a dishwasher I'd be doing the washing up multiple times a day just to get rid of the mess.

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 14:36

When SAHM's post about how their DH leaves a trail of mess in his wake, everyone is adamant that she shouldn't pick up after her partners and that even though the DH works, he's still capable of of putting his stuff away properly

But he's not a SAHD! He's been at home perfecting his PhD and then acquiring skills in another area. Both fine things to do - but not for my benefit in the way that a working partner benefits from the labour of a SAHP (since he would have been able to get a job at any point - just not in his chosen field). And I'm not expecting him to pick up after me!

OP posts:
DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 24/04/2016 14:36

Whois- the OP has already said they're short of money so having a cleaner/ tidier who comes in every day is probably not an option.

andintothefire · 24/04/2016 14:37

But at the same time, I do feel like he doesn't recognise like my hard work is the whole reason he has a flat to work in in the first place. I know putting it like that makes me sound horrible.

I don't think it does sound horrible. You aren't married and don't have children together. You are working very long hours in a stressful (and junior) job, and he is living presumably rent free (or almost rent free) in a flat that you pay a high amount of London rent for. I think that in those circumstances it is reasonable to expect some leniency towards you and some understanding of what you need to make your life manageable. I would expect two young professionals to be sharing rent and cleaning costs, not for one person to be paying for everything. I think his working from home also exacerbates the problem - if he were doing the same hours as you he might be more understanding.

At the same time, I agree that you should do the small things to tidy up after yourself. Anything that adds a couple of minutes onto your morning routine is fine. Any more than 5 mins on a regular basis and I completely sympathise with you just wanting to leave things until the weekend!

FlyingScotsman · 24/04/2016 14:38

Hermione re not picking stuff up as you go along or cleaning your cup of tea, I would actually say it depends.
If you are leaving everyday at 7.30am and you don't come back until 10.00pm at night
1- there isn't a lot of time left for you to do any mess ion the house anyway
2- you are likely to be exhausted and rushing all the time (eg plan very little time to get rested/have b'fast in the am which means that yes these 5mins to 'tidying up' after yourself just aren't there.

That brings another question which is time management.
Do you have any time at all to do that in the am for example and go and clean your cup of tea? Could you get up 15mins earlier to not be a rush and be able to do that or do you expect him to do it for you?
How is your energy level at the moment and do you need support because you are extremely busy at or is it an issue that has always been there, even before you were that busy? Ie is it more a case of him supporting you for a bit and then you making sure you ARE much more careful

whois · 24/04/2016 14:38

I think your problem is more one of male self entitlement, one from someone who resents to have to do a 'woman' job of tidying up and is digging his heels in to do so.

This in spades. Seriously if one half of the partnership is out at work paying for the other one to further their self fulfilment... The half that is at home can wash an extra fucking mug up in the morning.

Have you tried talking to him when the mess isn't an instant issue?

I would honestly try the wicker basket in living space and wicker basket in bedroom - where you dump in all your stuff until you have time to put away properly. Then he can't be moaning about the mess.

Washing up - we'll probably I would just do my cup and plate in the morning because that really doesn't take more than 1 min max.

Then you can assess if the problem was 'your messiness' or if actually, the two of you just aren't working out.

whois · 24/04/2016 14:40

Whois- the OP has already said they're short of money so having a cleaner/ tidier who comes in every day is probably not an option

I know. Just that someone trotted out the bullshit line about how cleaners won't tidy - and I wanted to correct that.

AskingForAPal · 24/04/2016 14:40

I can't believe what a hard time you're getting!

Once had a housemate who worked all the hours God sent, and though he was very tidy in his own room, left his breakfast stuff by the sink unwashed every morning. I washed them up for him probably 4 days out of 5, and barely if ever raised a complaint about it! He would do stuff like Hoover, it all came round in the end.

Tbh I think some people here are massively exaggerating and/or projecting. Because imagine if a woman came on here saying: "AIBU to really resent washing up my partner's mug? He works 12-14 hours a day and comes home totally knackered. I'm not working as I'm teaching myself a new skill, and am at home all day. (Not sure if it's relevant but he pays all the bills atm.) But most days he rushes out of the house and leaves his coffee cup unwashed, meaning I have to either leave it or wash it myself. AIBU to hassle him about this every day as I think it's really unfair? Otherwise we split the housework."

notinagreatplace · 24/04/2016 14:40

think your problem is more one of male self entitlement, one from someone who resents to have to do a 'woman' job of tidying up and is digging his heels in to do so.

I kind of agree with this. I don't think it's at all reasonable for you to be splitting chores 50:50 when he doesn't have a job at the moment and is just learning how to code, etc. In fact, if you count the cleaning as all yours as you're paying for it, you're covering more than he is. At the very least, he should be doing all of the laundry as he's at home so it just makes more sense rather than taking up time you could be spending together at the weekend.

I would have some serious conversations with him about how he sees this sort of thing working in the future - I somehow suspect that underlying this is a lot of male entitlement, I rather doubt he'll be willing to do 50:50 if you have kids.

Backingvocals · 24/04/2016 14:41

Right I still think you need to get your act together re your stuff but your later post makes it clear there's another issue as well.

Is he struggling with the fact that you are on a career track? Sounds like he's doing well but it's not bearing fruit yet and he wants to make sure he's not slipping into kept woman territory. He actually is, I think, and he doesn't like how that feels so he's pushing back hard to keep you on your toes.

Rezolution123 · 24/04/2016 14:41

I cannot do better than FlyingScotsman. There is resentment in your posts OP. Also there are petty housekeeping issues which are only going to fester and grow bigger if they are not sorted now. Five years down the line I can see you breaking up if you cannot resolve these issues.
Sorry to sound negative but you have asked for honest comments, in all fairness.

DameDiazepamTheDramaQueen · 24/04/2016 14:42

Who is- yes that was me trotting out bullshit lines Hmm

HermioneJeanGranger · 24/04/2016 14:43

I'm not expecting him to pick up after me!

But when you leave all your mess in the small kitchen, he doesn't have much choice! How is he supposed to cook a meal or whatever if all your dirty dishes (and you admit it's several days worth) are on the side. He has to move your stuff to sit down.

Sorry OP, but it takes five minutes to put your clothes away, wash up your mug before you leave and put your stuff back in the cupboard.

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 14:43

Yes I could technically get up 15 mins earlier. But I do find it difficult to get up anyway (as I am someone who really likes getting 8hrs sleep, but find that I'm not getting that atm - either because I am getting in really late, or just because I'm finding it hard to fall asleep because of stress). I also don't love my work at the moment (I don't think any magic circle trainee does frankly) so I'm not exactly leaping out of bed. So normally it is a case of hitting snooze one too many times then rushing round to get everything sorted and running out of the house. And I know that some people on this thread would say that this is my basic problem and if I loved my partner enough I'd get up earlier etc. And part of me agrees with that. But part of me thinks, well frankly i am already having to get up stupidly early to do this job, while he gets to sleep in til 9 or whatever. If there is stuff left on the sofa/coffee table and I haven't rinsed my cereal bowl, sitting there looking at that is still less or at least equal hardship than having to drag myself out of bed on not enough sleep and work hard at a job I'm not appreciated in, and that should be acknowledged.

OP posts:
BoatyMcBoat · 24/04/2016 14:45

I do think that if you spend more time at home, and your dp is leaving dirty cups and crocks around, as well as clothes (chair in bedroom or sitting room?) then it is going to get your goat.

It really is just the work of a moment to take your cup out and rinse it, put your clothes in a washing basket and pick up crap as you go along. If you make the effort, you'll find it so easy to do that in no time you won't notice doing it.