Housework - who ibu?

[nobilityobliges]

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

But do you expect to split the housework 50/50, marynary, even though you're at home and your partner works?

Even Mary doesn't admit to washing up her in own dishes and leaving her partner's though.

She doesn't even want the partner to do the dishes! she just wants him not to get pissed off that they are not done on his timeframe.

Love that we are still going back and forth on this and the OP and her dp are probably getting on happily and loved up again!

But do you expect to split the housework 50/50, marynary, even though you're at home and your partner works?

Yes.

When I was a sahm, my 'job' was childcare. If I could fit housework in around that all well and good, but actually, I worked a helluva lot harder than dh and I couldn't go home and just put my feet up in the evening, nor did I get a break for lunch. I was also trying to study. I still wouldn't have done my dishes and left dh's.

Here is the longer term solution. Make getting a dishwasher a priority. If you are in a rented flat with no space for one, plan to move to a flat which has one. If you own the flat, get a slimline one and remove a cupboard to fit it in. There is no way a dishwasher is unaffordable on a city trainee salary and many small modern flats have them. I rent out a small 1 bed new build flat in London within 20 mins commuting distance of the City and it has a dishwasher. Seriously, washing dishes is guaranteed to make anybody miserable.

Didn't you say you had a cleaner though? Surely she does them at least once a week?

Just asked My dh for his opinion since a) he's the neat freak and I'm the messy one and b) partly because of my job and partly because I have a horse I am at home less. His answer was that he would expect me to tidy up after myself but that he would do the bulk of the housework including the dishes and, however cross, would never just wash his own dishes. Equally I can't leave dishes after a meal -it doesn't take a minute to wash a place setting ;it takes much longer to wash the same one setting for several meals. Leaving yours on the side sounds like the sort of petty thing that students do, not partners. We have a general rule that if one of us cooks the other washes up, but that's balanced with compassion so if I've had a long day dh will often cook just for me and then do the dishes too. It does sound as though neither of you are yet at the position of recognising that it's the total contribution to the household which should be equal rather than individual elements. I think you are probably closer, but need to pick up more after yourself and also need to recognise that it's pretty grim having to do dishes before you start cooking. You also need to recognise the things he does do like cooking for you every day. I presume he also does things like waiting in for deliveries and tradesmen and so on. Who does all the house admin? My dh does far more hoovering than I do; I do all the admin. We both aim to be considerate and to recognise the other's contribution and to aim for a roughly equal amount of free time.

Marynary I agree with you IF you are at home looking after the dcs. Otherwise, I would expect a big bulk of the work to be done by whoever is staying at home.

What strikes me though is that most posters are reacting as if he was working or studying. This guy is NOT.
He has finished his PhD and is just 'brushing up' his skills in coding. He is NOT working towards a qualification. He could well be 'palying all day' ie doing stuff he enjoys because he enjoys them rather working on bits he doesn't enjoy or finds hard work. For what we know, he could also be 'brushing up his coding skills' for half an hour a day max.

I'm also wondering how much 'admin' stuff he is doing or if he is ever waiting for delieveries (In our house, we both work but somehow we also manage to have all the deliveries done wo being there...). For example, it's the OP who is doing the washing (inc his) when it would be a very easy task for him to do being at home all day. It's also her who is doing the shopping etc...
Then only thing he seems to do in the house is doing his washing up and tidying up after himself.

I did ask my DH about the situation (he is the tidy one, I'm not. I'm finishing work later than him so he is in charge of all the evening meals, picking up from after school club etc...)
His answer was straight away COCKLODGER followed by why didn't he get a small job until he starts his new job seeing that they are struggling with money?

Marynary I agree with you IF you are at home looking after the dcs. Otherwise, I would expect a big bulk of the work to be done by whoever is staying at home.

I'm not looking after DCs either. I work at home.
There is no reason why people "at home" should be doing the bulk of the housework as suggested by another poster. It is dependent on what they are doing. DP may be doing a lot of work at home. OP seems to think so and I don't really think that anyone on this thread knows otherwise. It is pure speculation from people who have no idea with what is involved with a PhD, publications or his new job.

Ok do you're busy as a trainee solicitor? Wait until you're qualified .... I'm regularly do jury trials, work late and work weekend's. You need to respect your DP. If you know it pisses him off at least make an effort to do basic tidying and putting away. Saying you support him financially is just cheap and rude IMHO. You are going to marry this man, treat him like your life partner not the live in cleaner.

But Mary then you are WORIKING.
As I said, that's not the case of the OP's boyfriend. He isn't studying (he has finished his PhD), he isn't gaining a qualification. He is 'brushing up' skills. Does he really need 8h00 of work everyday for him to do the job he has been recruited for? I hope not tbh!

Your messiness does sound annoying. But if you are paying the bills then I think you win!

FlyingScotsman Yes, I am working. However, I was replying to a poster that stated "zero women have come on to say they stay at home but leave their partner's breakfast dishes for him to do after work." They didn't qualify the statement by saying "at home and doing nothing else" which lead me to believe that it doesn't occur to some people that those of us who are at home have better things to do than pick up after someone else.
As for OP's DP, you have no idea what "brushing up" on his skills involves and how much time it takes. It might be essential for him to do that before starting the job if he is to stayed employed once he starts. He might be working very hard on it. Certainly OP seems to think he is and she would probably know better than you and other posters on this thread.

brassy magic circle trainees do work very late hours and weekends, and in a way it is harder being a trainee than qualified as you have absolutely no autonomy or control over your time and often supervisors with competing demands on your time who will not budge. As you are only very low down in the food chain you have no idea what might hit your desk next and are just expected to suck it up and may have no idea whether you will be even coming home that evening. Qualified lawyers may have as long or longer hours but they have more control. Therefor it's unfair to suggest the OP is exaggerating her busyness.

brassywind, don't get all competitive about whether you or the OP works harder, ffs.

Have only read the first page tbh and don't even know if you re still reading Op but frankly, I think your DP is being a massive Douche. You are rushing around like a tit working stupid hrs supporting you both while he is basically studying at home a fraction of the hours, and he can't even be kind enough to help you out by tidying away some stuff you leave either in a rush or cos you're too pooped, particularly as it's only him that even notices or cares.... Regardless of all the posters saying it's lazy, if the tables were turned I personally would Absolutely Not mind in the slightest clearing up a bit after my OH, in fact I definitely Would be grateful and Would do as much as poss to help out.

Think he resents you on done level, and should totally cut you some massive slack here.

Tell him you'll cut your hours down to enable you to have more free time in which to draw breath "tidy up after yourself" but sadly that means you won't be able to afford to pay all the bills now so he'll have to give up his coding hobby training and get a fucking job.

I'll say it again - DOUCHE.

HTH

I've been in your situation on the work front, being tired all the time, and living in a tiny flat.

What worked for me was optimising organisation.

Your make up sounds like bug bear. It sounds inefficient to take it out of your wardrobe and into the living room. Can you apply it somewhere else?

Or how about a space-saving 'dressing table' by combining this floating drawer floating drawer (have enough room for your make up?) + a mirror?

Thinking about it, the best advice on this thread was the advice to get a dishwasher. Even one of those little worktop ones.

Jarstastic - from what the OP has said, 'normally' she'd just put her make up on in the bedroom and put it straight back where she took it from. She's going into the living room to put her make up so she doesn't have to wake her DP (assume so she doesn't have to put the light on). It does seem like the OP is trying ot be considerate of the fact that he doesn't have to up as early as she does. I would stop worrying about waking him early and get ready in the bedroom, he might find the make up bag being in the living room preferable.