Housework - who ibu?

[nobilityobliges]

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

Maybe when he has a job and works long hours outside the home his exacting standards will adjust. I hope so.

As I said upthread I am a complete neat freak but there are some things you have to allow to be a bit more relaxed.
I get up at 5.30 as I have to catch a train at 6.15. (I'm also a solicitor in the City incidentally). Husband leaves at 7.30 but has to get our 2 kids ready for drop off as well as himself. If we faffed around washing up cups, tidying etc we'd have to get up even earlier. Sorry but 5.30 is as early as I'm prepared to go. (BTW I'm one of the dreadful women you hear about who does her make up on the train but at least I don't leave the bag lying around at home, hee hee!)
Whoever gets home first tidies up the morning stuff and puts in a load of washing. We don't count up who used what effing cup or wore which pair of pants! Some weeks one of us can do a lot more depending on work commitments but we don't keep a tally.
As for clothes, I keep my work clothes for the morning in the bathroom so I can get showered and dressed without waking H before I need to. It means the hangers dangle there all day before being replaced with a different set. It's not ideal if you like things tidy but H happily trades that for his extra bit of shut eye. I wonder what your BF think if you started hurrahing intro the bedroom early in the morning for the sake of putting your make up bag back in the dressing table.

I knew no one who signed on in order to complete their PhD because you are still a full-time student and therefore ineligible.

I think that varies from university to university and area to area. Unless things have recently changed, many people officially "write up" part time and therefore can claim income support, housing benefit etc.

If you're writing up part-time, then you can get a part-time job.
I think channel 5 need to make one of their benefit scrounger documentaries about this tidal wave of intellectual types defrauding the state.

Maybe when he has a job and works long hours outside the home his exacting standards will adjust.

I'm absolutely certain that they will. In his favour, so that suddenly its OK for him to leave stuff lying around / the OP should be clearing up after him while he brings in an income!

If you're writing up part-time, then you can get a part-time job.

You are only "officially" writing up part time though. If you actually do write up part time there is less chance of completing on time and it may also take longer to get a well paid professional job.

If you're not available for work, you shouldn't claim benefits. All joking aside.

Being a proper grown-up means that you pick up after yourself. Ask yourself: if I'm not mature enough to do this am I grown up enough to get married? Why should others have to pick up for you? If you love your partner why do you stress him out by being a slob? Leaving make-up etc on the sofa is a bit adolescent to say the least. Accept that being grown up means being responsible for your stuff. How many seconds of your life do you actually use up by making an effort to put things away? Not many. How long will you regret being a slob if the wedding is called off? Think about it. Then grow up.

Mrskim do you think leaving a make up bag on the sofa is worse than OP's dp washing up his dirty pots and leaving hers when she's out at work 15 hours a day?

Mrskim do you think leaving a make up bag on the sofa is worse than OP's dp washing up his dirty pots and leaving hers when she's out at work 15 hours a day?

If a man came on here and admitted to leaving all his shit all over the place for his female DP to pick up after him all day 'because he worked long hours and paid for everything' he would be handed his arse and rightly so. It's about respect and not expecting others to pick up after you.

OP, just put your make up away instead of leaving it all over the place. If you have time to put it on, you have time to put it away somewhere tidy too.

Oh come on. There is leaving stuff all over abs heaving stuff all over.
Both DH and I leave cups of tea in the living room and one of us puts them in the dishwasher at some point. Neither of us see that as 'leaving things all over' and being generally very untidy. Same with a makeup bag.
A man (or a woman) would get a word from me if cups were left there for days and getting mouldy. If you had some much stuff left everywhere that you can't sit down on the sofa, shoes everywhere to trip on etc.
The op is just leaving a cup of tea, and clothes on a chair in her bedroom. Hardly what I would call a real mess.
And that's wo talking about what she DOES do (shopping, washing etc) that the men you are talking about never do.

And the picking up after yourself.
Who said the picking up had to be done straight away?
I can't see anything wrong about leaving a bowl of cereal to wash until the evening.

But I do see something wrong about an attitude that says 'I'm not going to do it because it's not MINE'

You seem to be implying that you're going out to work purely to support him and you resent him for it. I assume this is a job you want to do, and that you benefit from yourself (financially and in terms of satisfaction). You are sounding like a bit of a burning martyr in that respect. If your fiance wasn't around, you'd still be doing the job right? So I'm not sure why you think he should be so grateful for it that he has to be your maid.

I can see both sides.

• I don't think it's unreasonable that you're supporting him financially. It's fairly common IMO for one partner to support the other while they are studying- he's not just sitting on his arse but gaining a valuable qualification.

• You both need to pull your socks up. I do sympathise with the busyness (I used to be a City solicitor) and lack of time but you DO have time to eg wash up your coffee cup. Just try to force yourself to do it every time for a week or so and it will become second nature, like flushing the loo or whatever. Meanwhile, he needs to grow up a bit and act more like a team. I wonder whether a bit of resentment has built up that's contributing to him leaving your cups unwashed etc. A bit more give on both sides.

• Resist the urge to make this into a bigger thing than it is. You leave dirty cups around- that's annoying. He gets a bit overly arsey about it- that's also annoying. But none of this means that either one of you is taking the piss or that you're incompatible. You're just learning to rub along together.

• The bit where I do think you're unreasonable is in bringing up the fact you're paying for things in response to is grumbles about messiness. It's a bit unnecessary (I'm sure he's well aware that you are supporting him) and not really relevant, as he's not asking you to spend hours scrubbing the floor, just to do the absolute basics.

I also work much longer hours than my DH, and I'm the messier one. So I can relate, including to these things getting worse when work heats up and you are short of sleep.

Trail of mess: I also think this is lazy and disrespectful to your DP. However, rather than just saying 'stop doing it' I think you should try to organise your stuff so it is easier to keep tidy-new storage, a dressing table, whatever it takes. Ditto the clothes:- they will stay more manageable if you do a 10 minute whizz round before bed, but also think about how to organise them so keeping tidy is easier to do.

Only doing your own washing up is a rather sad, petty system though. I honestly cannot imagine going to the sink and only washing up stuff I had used. I would do everything that needed doing, and later on would probably find that my DH had done a similar little favour for me. Your DP has more time, so generally he should do it. When you do have time, you should muck in, do yours and his and any other little chores that need doing.

He is a dick for expecting a 50-50 split while you and he have such different calls on your time. Fairness and parity do not come from pernickety rotas or people keeping score. He is begrudging and that isn't a good sign. Why can't you both make different contributions to the household right now, while your situations are so different? Does he actually this this is all women's work?

You've got to talk it through. When you do, leave money out of it. I would try and uncover all your and his unspoken assumptions and hidden resentments though. Often what causes problems is not what you do say but what you both leave unsaid.

OP, just put your make up away instead of leaving it all over the place. If you have time to put it on, you have time to put it away somewhere tidy too.

Do you think, that it might help to read the thread??? FFS. It's not left all over the place. It's in a make up bag. In the living room. It isn't placed back in the bedroom so as not to disturb mr petty cup man who needs hue uninterrupted sleep.

When you do, leave money out of it.
I don't see how you can leave money out of it. They aren't married. They don't have kids. He is making no contribution to the household either with money or time. Oh sure, he's working hard at his studies so he can get s good paying job that will benefit them both in he future... Or so he says. But right not be isn't contributing at all to the smooth running of the household. You either pay in time or money, he isn't ponying up either.

I can't believe someone is telling the OP to grow up when she is financially supporting another adult who is choosing to wash his own cup and leave hers on the counter.

At first I was thinking the OP should just pick up after herself.

But her makeup is in a bag, not a big deal really is it! Unless it's the size of a suitcase. And clothes over a chair in the bedroom I can't see the issue with this really. So just a mug to put by a sink...

Then she mentioned he washes up his own mugs/plates etc but not hers!! So even if she put it by the sink she would get moaned at that's just bloody ridiculous.

You contribute to a "home" time, money mix of the two whist supporting the other person. Or that's how it should be IMO.

sorry but yabu. putting your things away is not exactly housework, its not like hes asking you to scrub the toilets everyday after work.
also, you think he should be tidying up after you because hes at home? you sound like a pampered princess imo.
how will you cope when you have kids? most mums are up before anybody else and sit down after everybody else, usually way after 9-10 pm.

Pine, she doesn't get home from work until 9-10 pm! Some pampered princess!

You pampered princess, with your 14 hour working days

I can't believe some of the posts here.

I note literally zero women have come on to say they stay at home but leave their partner's breakfast dishes for him to do after work.

I note literally zero women have come on to say they stay at home but leave their partner's breakfast dishes for him to do after work.

I am a woman who stays at home and certainly don't always do the breakfast dishes.