Housework - who ibu?

[nobilityobliges]

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

The compromise is that he does the washing up, but the dirty dishes are left in the sink, ie not leaving your mug in the living room.
He can hoover but shouldn't have to clear the floor of your clothes first.

I'm naturally a "leaver" but have made a big effort recently to change. It balances out time wise, as you spend less time finding stuff that you have left "somewhere"

As an extremely messy person married to a tidy one I have to say YANBU. This isn't really about housework at all, tidying is different from cleaning.

I have finally learned to put my stuff away most of the time as I go. It has become obvious that I have actually cut the workload.

Take make up out of usual place and use: put it back = 2 jobs
Take make up out of usual place and use: put it in other place: put it back in usual place = 3 jobs.

There is a thread about this elsewhere - well, about 100 of them. A SAHM called 'Jane' reported she'd said to her partner 'Tom', every time you just leave something out without putting it away, I want you to think to yourself 'Fuck you Jane' because that is how she felt about him leaving stuff out. I know that in your and my heads, we are just thinking 'it's my house, I'll put it away when I feel like it' but tbh you are living with someone else now and it is their space too. He is working at home, if he struggles to concentrate in a messy house you are saying 'fuck you Boyfriend' every time you leave something around. You need to sort it out.

The silver lining is that it is much, much easier than you think. You are not a special snowflake who was born messy, you too can learn to be tidy(er).

Does your make up actually "live" on the sofa or do you normally keep it in bedroom or bathroom?

See I hate dirty dishes in sink. I prefer them stacked next to it as I hate emptying bowl of dirty dishes I can start!

Can you fit a dishwasher?

Wow, some people are projecting a little bit harshly here, but that tells you how infuriating it can be to be on the other side of it I guess.

You just sound like you don't have much free time, you don't notice the clutter as much, and you're also used to living alone perhaps - that's not the end of the world, but now things have to change a bit as this is part of living with someone you love, and hopefully he's worth the extra effort.

Maybe work on it a bit and pay for some extra cleaner time too? Keep a little star chart or something and try and stay lighthearted about it. This is the stuff that can wreck otherwise lovely relationships! A dishwasher helped save ours

It isnt housework, it is just your own mess. YABU

I think you are being a tad disrespectful to your do.

He should not have to move your dirty dishes or belongings.

I get that he might do more housework with respect to doing more laundry or doing more washing up, but he is not your maid.

I think this disparity needs to be sorted out otherwise I foresee major issues down the line.

i was a trainee solic many years ago. I get it. You often have so little chance to sleep it's not simply a matter of 'getting up earlier'. I would go for days, walking through the door in the early hours, straight into bed, up 4h later, quick shower and leave. Repeat. I lived alone at the time though so was able to leave the place in a mess if need be. I think the compromise suggestions above are right - you don't leave cups and make up lying around, but he can wash up/ tidy kitchen/ do actual housework if there's stuff that needs doing beyond what cleaner does. You should be able to leave clothes on a chair until you have a chance to hang them. Why don't you have a dishwasher though?!
Plus you're young, if you can't be a slob now and then, when can you?! you won't get a chance if you have kids etc when you're older.
Word to the wise though. Ppl who haven't done a job with that kind of intensity will never get it. If your partner doesn't understand now, he probably never will. Make sure you're ok with that.

I am home all day with teens at school and dh at work. If they don't tidy their stuff I don't clean, regardless of how much spare time I have. It takes just a minute or two to put things away after yourself but a lot more time for one person to clear up everyone elses mess.

My mum used to leave the house around 5.30-5.45 when we were growing up. If it hadnt been for the washing on the line and our lunches sitting ready for us you wouldnt have know she'd even been up. She wasnt in most evenings until after 7 and first thing she did when she got home (to our shame!) was get the oven on then take in the washing and fold it while waiting for her dinner to cook. I'm embarrassed now that she even had to do that.

I think you know deep down you are in the wrong op. It not general housework here .. You are treating him lie an unpaid skivvy

There is an extent to which I think people should be responsible for their own standards (if you think dishtowels have to be ironed, you're ironing the damn things yourself) but tidying up behind yourself isn't compromising, it's just being considerate to whoever you share your space with.

I absolutely agree that everyone has to tidy up after themselves, but does it have to be done immediately. Do people really wash their breakfast bowls before work when time is really tight? Even the cleanest people I know leave it in the sink with some water to be washed when they come back in from work.

As for the makeup on the sofa - the makeup should be kept wherever it's applied and not moved around. If it's applied in the living room, it should be kept next to the sofa.

Clothes on a chair? Again, doesn't everyone do this? You wouldn't put away clothes you're planning to wear again would you?

Putting your own stuff away after use is not housework.

I am also not a naturally tidy person but even I can see that you are being unreasonable with this. Even my six year old gets in trouble for not clearing away his own stuff once he's finished.

Btw. I am a single parent and work FT so stuff about not having as much time won't wash with me. It takes no time to clear away your makeup. It's like brushing your teeth. It's what adults do and it's a common courtesy. He's not asking you to mop the floor before you go to work.

Hey - thanks for the replies. I am acknowledging the points about me being U, and taking on board points about attitude etc.

BUT just to emphasise, I am not talking about him taking on more "general housework" (as some people have been mentioning this issue or saying that it is fair enough that he does more of that). We have a cleaner who comes in weekly hoovering/cleaning the bathroom etc. So neither of us are doing that stuff. All we both have to do is the general day to day keeping stuff ticking over - washing up, tidying up, cooking, food shopping.

He does the cooking in the evenings (he usually eats earlier and leaves me something to heat up later) and as I say is better at tidying/washing up. On the other hand I do the general washing (towels/sheets/both our clothes) at the weekend (though he also does small runs of his own clothes during the week), and do the food shopping on my way home from work. So it is not that he is doing a ton more than me in general -- it is purely the issue of what I think it an acceptable level of mess in the circumstances.

Also - about the mess. I don't leave clothes/towels on the floor (as someone said upthread). The make up left on sofa is in a make up bag not just spread out. I really don't think I am crazy messy (but take the point that it's easy enough to fix the v small things like putting the make up bag back in the bedroom closet).

And yes to the point about being sleep deprived. Work goes in waves, and when I get home earlier (ie leaving work at seven getting home for eight) I am much better. The messiness comes at its worst when I'm sleep-deprived - and I guess I do feel that he should acknowledge that I am working that hard for both our benefit (at least financially) and cut me some slack. Idk, maybe I am entitled. I just feel upset when I creep out while he's still asleep then get back 15 hours later, exhausted, to hear about his nice lunch with his friend and the fun coding problems he has been doing, then get told off about having left a mug on the coffee table.

YABU and lazy. It's not housework you're talking about, it's general stuff. Of course you put away a cup after you've drunk from it, tidy things away as you go along. He's your partner, not your slave! Just because you currently earn more doesn't make you someone to be bowed down to. I feel sorry for your DH to be!

You are treating him lie an unpaid skivvy

To emphasise - he does not do my washing up/tidying up - nor do I expect him to. The problem comes from the fact that I do not do it as frequently as he likes so he has to be in an unpleasant environment. I do acknowledge that that is about respect for him and it definitely sounds like the consensus is that I should be doing more. But I do want to emphasise that he does not clean up after me!

Ahh come on, how much extra time would it have taken to lift the cup from the table to the sink? Thats not a time or tiredness issue. Thats just not being bothered and leaving it either to sit all day or for him to lift. If you know he is the tidy sort then you know he will have to lift it.

I'mmessy but I make small efforts. I do make up on the sofa but clear it back into a make up bag and into the drawer. Takes seconds to do that at least. Sort you clothes out as you take them off, dirty-in the washing basket, clean the pit away, again takes minutes. I come in at night put my shoes, bag and coat away and its done. At least rinse your dishes and put into the sink to wash it the dishwasher. Tiny things that take seconds help and show you are making an effort.

This is an argument about standards and time. Not money.

You owe him an apology about how you brought money in to the fight.

You need to agree a standard of basic tidyness and try to swipe your stuff back into boxes/drawers/something off of surfaces. But he's not entitled to demand that everything be perfect at all times either; that's not unreasonable based on how you live at the moment.

And you need to agree that he has more time at home, so obviously he will be a bit more responsible for general house chores ... but you can point out that you're trying to pitch in there with the cleaner you've hired due to your lack of actual time at home.

Don't have children together until you've resolved these issues.

Ok then I'm a bit confused. If he's not tidying away your stuff what is he complaining about?

Well hell, I'll be slaughtered here too but I'm sympathetic and it wouldn't kill him to be either more supportive OR put your stuff aside and leave it for you later without nagging ... Teamwork and swings and roundabouts and all. When one of you is super-tidy and the other super-unfussed, it's that or you end up breaking up.

Imagine if the roles were reversed. He was the higher earner and out of the house more, you were contributing less financially and home more. Would you be happy to pick up his detritus or be at home working around his mess and dirty dishes all day? Would you like to be reminded that because you were a kept woman you should do less?

It pays to train yourself to be tidy. Both for more effective work-life juggling and if/when you have kids.

Tough that you "don't want to" spend your free time tidying and cleaning, if you make a mess you need to clean it up.

The thing is, he does have to clean up after you whether he wants to or not!

If you go out and leave all your crap on the sofa/surfaces, he has to move it out of the way and tidy it up before he can sit down or make his own meal. You might not see it as an issue, but that's because you're not the one doing it.

He might not be working, but he IS studying and therefore isn't going to be happy to spend his free time clearing away your shit before he can sit down or make himself dinner or a cup of tea.

As someone else has said, being tidy is part of maturing.
Looking to the future, you may well be having children and that is when you will need to be tidy and organised. Get into good habits now or you will sink without trace when the little ones arrive.