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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Housework - who ibu?

370 replies

nobilityobliges · 24/04/2016 12:44

I am 25 and getting married to my boyfriend of five years this summer. He is fantastic, and I love him very much. Pretty much the only problem in our relationship arises out of arguments about housework.

I am a really messy person. On top of this, I am currently working as a trainee solicitor in a big London firm, which means that I often don't get in til 9 or 10pm, sometimes have to work weekends. So I have a limited amount of free time, which I don't want to spend doing housework.

My fiancé, on the other hand, is pretty houseproud, and mess stresses him out. I try to accommodate him, and am a lot tidier than I would otherwise be. I also pay for a cleaner to come weekly. He still does more housework though. However, he has a lot more free time than me - he has been at home finishing his phd for a while, and now he has finished it, he is brushing up his coding skills (a different area from his phd) before beginning a job in that area in a few months time (he already has the job). I think this is a good career move and support him in it. I supported him financially through the last year of his phd, and am still supporting him now (ie I pay rent/council tax/food bills/going out etc). I'm happy to do this, and he is really working hard getting his skills up to speed and is definitely not just lazing around the house while I'm at work.

But my fiancé still just brings up my messiness a lot. For example, there will often be a buildup of my breakfast/dinner stuff in the sink (my bf washes up as he goes). I also often just leave stuff lying round -- eg my make up on the sofa after I apply it in the morning then rush out without putting it away, coffee cups round the living room, clothes in a pile on the chair in our room rather than put away etc etc. Nothing major, but definitely quite a bit of general mess. My fiancé thinks that this stuff is completely unreasonable and that I'm completely selfish for not being tidier.

My view is that (1) it's my flat too, and he has to accept that we'll be meeting in the middle mess-wise, (2) I am working very hard at a job, and it's unreasonable to expect me to also spend ages on housework, when this is something I fundamentally don't give a shit about and (3) I am contributing a lot by paying the rent and bills, so even if he ends up doing more housework than me, it's still a fair split.

The problem is that when I raise the fact that I am paying bills he gets very upset, and tells me that I'm trying to control him financially, and that if it was a man telling a woman this I'd be up in arms etc. I just don't know what's right. I do make an effort, but I'm not going to transform into a really tidy person, and I feel he should cut me some slack. I also acknowledge that he is putting every effort into increasing his future earning potential, but also feel that my current financial contribution shouldn't count for nothing either.

We seem to spend so much of our time arguing about this, and it's bringing me down. Any views or advice would be appreciated! Sorry this is so long....

OP posts:
TheDowagerCuntess · 24/04/2016 22:36

*unpalatable.

velocitykate · 24/04/2016 22:51

At the beginning of the thread, I thought you were being unreasonable. the more I have read, the more I have come round to the idea that he is the unreasonable one. Really wouldn't your life be easier without him (and I am not saying that suggesting you should end the relationship right now - more of a way to get you to think) - you would have more money and could pay for a cleaner twice a week and maybe even a dishwasher. You could leave all your washing up and blitz it whenever you had the time.

I'm betting that if the roles were reversed, he would be expecting you to pick up his dirty breakfast dishes and wash them up, do all the washing, do 24 hour childcare for any children you may have no matter how knackered you are, because he would be supporting you.

This may not be insurmountable, but please don't marry this man until you have reached some sort of reasonable compromise for you both - if that can be acheived

silvermantela · 24/04/2016 22:51

I don't think you are being unreasonable bringing money into it. If you were both working full-time and he just happened to be in a sector that paid considerably less than your job, then yes, you would be dickish to bring it up. But if you have literally funded everything, from the 'big' things like rent and his graduate studies, to smaller things like covering his socialising, then he is being dickish to not acknowledge this.

If you hadn't been together, or if you'd insisted on going 50/50 to cover his own way, presumably he'd have had to get a part time job to cover his bills, which could have meant he'd had to take longer finishing his studies and wouldn't be in a position to start his new job. At the very least his standard of living would have been less - he could have been flat-sharing with 4 other people, and wouldn't have been able to go out/on holidays. He doesn't have to be kissing-your-feet grateful for it, as its something you've both agreed on, but he should at least be adult enough to understand how he has benefited from you over the last few years.

I can 100% understand how annoying it would be if you have been working hard all day to come home to hear him talking about his nice lunch with a mate (that you've basically paid for) and the work he's been able to do on his laptop (paid for by you) in his nice warm flat (paid for by you), after having a bit of a lie in, and then to be told off for leaving a cup on the side!

I think you did yourself a bit of a hardship in your OP, by the way. First you made it sound like there was make-up lying all over the living room, then in later posts you said it was all cleared away in one bag, on a shelf, and only in that room to be considerate. I'm a tidy person and I wouldn't consider that 'mess' at all! Same with cups - three or four half-empty cups scattered over the flat is grim, one sole drained mug on the side of the sink is fine.

EweAreHere · 24/04/2016 22:59

Equal doesn't always mean getting/doing the same thing.

He is being unreasonable.

Honestly, I wouldn't marry him until he can see this. He has considerably more free time than you do at the moment, but wants you to do 'half'? Really? Even though your working is enabling him to have so much extra free time this year?

Can you even imagine what adding children to the mix will be like if he's already feeling hard done by and so entitled? Imagine being on maternity leave ... I imagine his tune will do a 180 as he points out you are at home all day and having all kinds of 'free' time to keep the house clean and tidy, including his dishes, even though you'll actually be taking care of a baby.

You seriously need to get him to snap out of it before you consider tying yourself to him legally. Postpone the wedding if you can't. Losing deposits is a lot cheaper than divorce ... and you've been the earner in the relationship until now...

TheDowagerCuntess · 24/04/2016 23:08

I'm betting that if the roles were reversed, he would be expecting you to pick up his dirty breakfast dishes and wash them up, do all the washing, do 24 hour childcare for any children you may have no matter how knackered you are, because he would be supporting you.

Absolutely.

What do you think about this point, Nobility?

WellIGuessThisIsGrowingUp · 24/04/2016 23:27

Going against the grain here but i don't think yabu. From what you have said, it sounds like you are doing some housework when you have time (and paying for cleaner, oh i am jealous!!). I think you and OH need to come to an agreement about expectations as this won't go away, he will continue to nag and this with continue to irk you.
I am also a bit messy, as is OH but he thinks he is the tidy one. I always think about how tidy he is when i throw away his empty crisp packet from the floor, take his tea mug downstairs which he has left in bathroom, step over his football training stuff from the kids team he runs, empty the rank water from washing up bowl the following morning etc etc, but i digress. He thinks by nagging me, i will tidy more. I ignore nagging (mostly) and ignore his mess, as i don't think it is important in grand scheme of things. We both work hard, he does his share with the kids and running the house. I don't always put stuff away, getting to work on time is more important. I really don't think anyone leaving a makeup bag on sofa or mug on table is a massive issue.

TheDowagerCuntess · 24/04/2016 23:30

You're not going against the grain!

andintothefire · 24/04/2016 23:31

It's interesting that the thread started off think YABU but the last few pages after you explained the full situation have been almost universally supportive.

I am sure you and your fiancé can sort things out. You just need an honest conversation about how you feel, and how things can be split in future in a way that is a reasonable compromise for both of you. It sounds like you have both had a tough time over the last year or so, and it is difficult working out how to live with someone for what I assume is the first time. You have received some good advice for how to compromise, and lots of support for both of you - good luck!

DecaffCoffeeAndRollupsPlease · 25/04/2016 00:04

Does it hurt him to see your makeup bag on the sofa, is it so big that he can't sit down next to it? Haven't rtft but, as much as I have become tidier as I have aged, it would really rankle me to have someone complaining about 'lived in' bits around the house. Fair enough to complain if the house is dirty, or messy, but the few things that one uses day to day, I can't see the point in getting upset about not putting them away in-between what you expect to be frequent uses.

Is he the kind of person who gets more... anal when stressed? If he's at home full-time whilst waiting for his job to start, maybe it would do him good to go out every day to the library to work on his coding? And to have a hobby outside of the house, exercise at the gym or something?

I'm just not long term compatible with nit-picky type people, so I wish you luck with making it work long-term.

Paddletonio · 25/04/2016 00:34

YANBU

I think he sounds very petty and entitled. Of course the fact you have been financially supporting him to enable him to follow his own interests makes a difference. Of course the fact he's at home a lot more and you work long hours makes a difference. I don't really get why the F he feels so put upon.

Don't really see that you are doing anything so bad here at all. You've paid for a cleaner, you do all the laundry at the weekend, all the grocery shopping... Here is barely anything left for him to actually do! I can't believe he's getting in a huff about washing a couple of breakfast things.

Definitely have a discussion about division of potential child related labour!

nocoolnamesleft · 25/04/2016 01:33

So, what does he actually contribute to the household?

Cocklodger.

Dellarobia · 25/04/2016 07:21

I agree you did yourself a disservice in the OP and made yourself sound worse, and him sound better, than you really are.

whois · 25/04/2016 07:26

I agree you did yourself a disservice in the OP and made yourself sound worse, and him sound better, than you really are.

Agreed 100%

whois · 25/04/2016 07:27

And loads of women were projecting their anger at their 'slovenly' DHs who treat them like the hired help!

Flufflepuff · 25/04/2016 07:39

And loads of women were projecting their anger at their 'slovenly' DHs who treat them like the hired help!

I agree with this and actually said it early on from mainly reading the OP and initial responses, so I don't think the OP was that bad! although I also suggested star charts like you use for toddlers so we'll call that an even fail

Glad people are being more understanding now OP. I do think people projected their issues right out there to start with.

I also agree that you should delay the wedding until you've sorted this stuff out. For one thing that's so soon that this entire dialogue might haunt it a bit, and for another, having kids etc will be way worse than this.

Gwenhwyfar · 25/04/2016 08:01

" i don't want to sit and stare at them [mugs left around the house] all day"

I would say that's your issue if he would otherwise tidy them up when he got home from work.

AskingForAPal · 25/04/2016 08:03

So glad this thread has turned around.

I'm sure the reason the OP came across comparatively badly was because he's banged on about her "crimes" so much they've inflated in her mind.

ShatterResistant · 25/04/2016 08:22

I agree with honeylulu way up thread.

money shouldn't be a stick to beat with but only if this is a proper partnership with equal contributions of different sorts. But this isn't.

You're supporting him financially, but it really doesn't sound like he's supporting you practically. Workloads and responsibility shift over the course of a relationship, and everyone has to be so flexible. You've had a gift in a way: to know that your partner doesn't seem to realise this BEFORE you get married. Many people have to wait till after marriage/kids to find out!

So am also adding to the chorus of "think about this before you bring children into the mix." That makes the "equality" discussion way more fraught.

paddypants13 · 25/04/2016 08:43

Just reading the later comments.

If all he's moaning about is a make up bag on a shelf in the living room and one rinsed cup on the kitchen side then yanbu.

The clothes would annoy me I have to admit.

You really need to have a long talk with him and if he won't sit down to a talk, I think you should really postpone the wedding.

Good luck, I don't envy you. x

kimball · 25/04/2016 08:48

YANBU OP. I think I would feel the same way. I think once he starts his new job the 'mess' will get to him less as he will spend less time in the flat. You might be able to get the cleaner in more often and your (understandable) feeling of resentment should diminish as the pressure of being the lone earner can be all consuming.

arethereanyleftatall · 25/04/2016 08:49

I really hope the op comes back and reads the later posts.

Pixienott0005 · 25/04/2016 09:39

I get where you're coming from. Studying and owning a home whilst working is really tough. Been there done that. But I am a bit like your partner, I can't stand a build up of crap lying around, it only makes it worse when you need to clean it up as there's more!

Make a rota for housework sounds utterly pathetic, but I think you need some regiment in it if things are getting messy and arguments are going on!

averythinline · 25/04/2016 09:54

I think he sounds like a real misery.....not being able to move a mug or whatever ever when he's sat at home having layins and practising coding problem s is pretty crap when ur working those hours....it's s miserly clock watching attitude... Is he careful with money as well??
Seriously I couldn't live with such a clockwatcher...
if you had kids and he was a sahd that's different as he would be full-time working as well..

LionsLedge · 25/04/2016 10:01

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Welshwabbit · 25/04/2016 10:18

OP, I have read through (pretty much) the whole thread and although you have already had lots of replies thought it might be helpful to chuck my thoughts in too. I know where you are coming from about the hours - I'm a barrister and lived with my (now) husband during my pupillage year. I honestly can't remember what we did then as he was working as a management consultant so we were both working bonkers hours. In the years since, though, if one of us has been working more intensively, the other tends to pick up the slack - but that's a general point, and you have been talking more specifically.

I think that if you're the one who's more at home, it is annoying if your OH leaves cups lying around and clothes on the floor. But from what you've said that's not what's happening (actually, after so many posts, I'm not really clear what's happening!). Certainly if, before we had kids, I had to leave early then OH would have done the washing up, including my stuff, and vice versa. I think it's petty to leave someone's cereal bowl out just because it's "their" washing up whilst you do "yours". I think your OH is being unreasonable about that. But it is the work of seconds to move your stuff off the sofa or take your cup and plate out to the kitchen and put it in the sink, so if you're not doing that, I'd make an effort to do it.

The other thing I would say is that these things become so much more important when you have kids. Whereas before I had children I'd have been quite happy to leave cups etc around the living room, I now can't stand it! My husband and I have to clear up before we sit down to watch telly; it's just become ingrained. And at the end of the evening everything goes into the dishwasher (I know you don't have one) even if it's late and we're tired. Otherwise the mess starts getting on top of us. I look back and I think - why on earth didn't I do this before I had kids. It takes a few seconds. And my husband used to be tidier than me (I think after 2x maternity leave I'm now tidier than him!) and I know it used to annoy him.

Finally, I also think that if he's the one at home more, he should be taking on the bulk of the household chores. As I said above, that's what my OH and I have done over the years. It evens out in the end. I know how soul-sapping and stressful those training years can be and if you have someone at home who can help you out and who is supposed to love you, then I don't think it's unreasonable to expect them to do so.

Sorry about the essay. I think maybe a frank talk far, far away from your flat (maybe in a nice pub somewhere?) would be a good plan. Good luck with it all.