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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To consider ending my relationship over rape jokes?

540 replies

Genie0709 · 22/04/2016 16:31

Really sorry if this is a bit of an essay but I would appreciate any opinions/advice.

For background, my partner and I are 27 and have been together for 2.5 years. We have known each other since we were about 16. He has been the most loving, supportive, faithful person since we got together. It is a wonderful relationship and we bring out the best in each other. Currently we don't live together but we have recently started looking to buy our first house.

Last night, I was watching a programme on our Ipad which is linked to his phone. At the time, he was on the train home from work. He and his friends were having a group conversation over imessage and every incoming message popped up at the top of the Ipad as I was watching iplayer. One text appeared referring to a girl as "the one that got away, hey MrGenie" and I couldn't help myself - I opened the group chat to see who they were talking about (please no lectures, I already feel terrible and have never felt a need to snoop before). I soon realised that my partner had sent to his friends an instagram picture of a girl in a dress with her chest out. My partner had commented that he didn't know what he would do if he saw her like that. Cue the most disgusting discussion between these men joking that she was asking to be raped wearing that, even a judge would agree, etc. Gang rape was also joked about. My partner was actively participating in this chat, talking about a time when he went home with this girl after a night out and had "finished" in the taxi before they even got home because she was so hot. They didn't end up sleeping together, which he said he was "still gutted about".

Needless to say I am devastated. Reading that conversation was like reading the messages of a stranger. I have never seen this vile side of him and I feel like I don't know him at all. To me, it is so out of character but maybe he is just an absolute arsehole when I am not around. I am disgusted by the things he said and disgusted by his friends. I feel disrespected, humiliated, terrified that I do not know my own boyfriend.

I have been at work today so have avoided seeing him, but we have an appointment with a mortgage adviser tonight so I am supposed to pick him up from work in an hour. Currently, I can't even bare the thought of looking at him.

Am I overreacting - is this something you could get over? I know that these texts were sick jokes but even joking about it crosses a line in my opinion. I am distraught at the thought of ending this relationship but he obviously has this revolting immature side of him that only comes out when he's with his laddy mates. I'm not sure how I would trust him when he goes out with these friends in the future, or how I would ever look his friends in the eye again.

OP posts:
chilledwarmth · 24/04/2016 21:15

I wouldn't like her being the but of the jokes, I don't think any dad would.

NameChange30 · 24/04/2016 21:22

I wish people would stop asking a certain PP what he thinks. I think we've heard too much plenty of that already.

RhombusRiley · 24/04/2016 21:26

chilled I think you are totally failing to get that being nice to a partner is not an automatic indicator of respect. Most partners are nice at first, or they wouldn't pull at all would they? Many men basically disrespect women but will "behave" with a partner – until they stop getting what they want, or until the relationship becomes committed and they become more abusive.

That does not mean there aren't genuinely nice and respectful men – there are – but it's a good sign that a man doesn't fall into that category if he joins in with gang rape "banter" and even initiates it. He is showing the side he doesn't show to his (relatively new) partner. Really, it's not hard to understand.

Look at the many threads on here from women whose men who have turned out to be serial cheats, or become violent or emotionally or finacially abusive, after things like marriage and children happened. Of course they were nice at first!

WonderingAspie · 24/04/2016 21:27

I honestly don't know if I'd base my whole relationship on this given you have known him to be a great partner. It does make for horrific reading but I've known too many 'lads' where they all play up to each other but are very different on their own. The playing up persona wasn't really them. That was my initial thought here.

However what they were saying is really bad and I'm not sure I could get past it. I'd probably see how it went a bit further on. If I felt that I wasn't moving past it, then he would be gone.

RhombusRiley · 24/04/2016 21:32

But I mean imagine being with a group of white friends and they all started joking about lynching black people ha ha ha. Or able-bodied friends laughing about hurting and violating disabled people.

I don't think many of us would think "Oh it's OK to go along with this and join in and say all that stuff, after all I don't really think it. Ha ha what fun."

No. Most right-headed people would be horrified and upset, we would have to express our dismay, or make our excuses and leave. Most men should be horrified and upset when it's women they're joking about, but many simply are not, because misogyny is deeply ingrained and normal for many men – certainly not shocking enough for them to think "bloody hell this is awful, I can't do this".

Some men refuse to do this or have mates like that. And that is the only kind of man I'd want to be with.

Boysdontcry · 24/04/2016 21:33

**(I assume you are white and therefore cannot really imagine this. Do not imagine "reverse racism", as that will not give you the accurate feeling. Imagine actual racism, the likes of which that leads to slavery and genocide.)
So White people cannot be affected by racism vestavirgin? Tell that to the young white girls that were raped in Rotheram by the Pakistani men. Or do they not count?

RhombusRiley · 24/04/2016 21:38

Boysdontcry, I agree with you. I do understand that the weight of historical ingrained racism affects different people's experience of racism, BUT I don't understand this idea that you cannot experience racism if you're white. I have and it felt horrible and frightening. Ok so it only gave me a tiny glimpse into what some people go through, but that doesn't mean it didn't exist.

(I also think boys and men can suffer from sexism. Just because they are the historical oppressor does not mean they can't be treated in a sexist way.)

Gabilan · 24/04/2016 22:10

I do feel for you OP. I found out the extent to which my parents buy into rape culture when talking to them about Ched Evans. In their case it's ignorance rather than malice but I can't forgive their ignorance. They're in their 70s and not that healthy so I've moved on, but hate the fact that I now think less of them.

If a partner expressed such views, I'd leave. It bothers me most that your P instigated this. Going along with it is weak at best, instigating is something else. If he said he would change, I'd always worry that he was just better at hiding this side of him.

chilledwarmth · 24/04/2016 22:28

Hey WonderingAspie you've basically summarized how I feel about this. I believe you have a saying that the "the proof of the pudding is in the eating". We can judge this man based on how he actually treats the woman he is in a relationship with. The OP said he is lovely, he is caring, he brings out the best in her. That suggests he is a good man at heart, he does care about his girlfriend, he doesn't see her as an object. He makes some stupid sick jokes about rape privately to his friends, is is distasteful and offensive, but there's nothing to suggest he truly believes that rape is ok. In fact all the evidence points to the contrary. It's the OP's life and her choices, none of us can say that the right decision is stay with him, or leave him. But what we can say without a doubt is that because of how great a guy she thinks he is, she should take time to think about whether ending the relationship is right or not. A break up should never be rushed into.

HelenaDove · 24/04/2016 23:11

"I honestly don't know if I'd base my whole relationship on this given you have known him to be a great partner."

But the problem is that women get blamed either way.

Because when something does happen later on women then get asked "Well surely there must have been warning signs you didnt pick up on"

You often see a crossover on the on the dating and the financial abuse threads.

Im dating a man who is a bit tight/careless with money

The answers are usually "Its not your business You are only dating him you dont live together etc.

Then on threads about financial abuse its the same thing again "surely there must have been warning signs" Drives me mad. MN is largely supportive but there are a couple who always post like this. So desperate to blame it on women that it reaches the point of gaslighting.

GarlicShake · 24/04/2016 23:24

A break up should never be rushed into.

It never is, you wally.

Least of all because of consensus on a Web forum! How thick do you think we are?

  • Don't answer that.
Lweji · 24/04/2016 23:25

Yes, the proof is in the eating, but that means the OP should stay with him and see how he behaves once they get married (or live together) and have children.
By then she could well be properly screwed.
So far she has two aspects of his personality that look at odds with each other. That means that he is not particularly trustworthy if he can present such different aspects to different people. I'd question which was the real him and wouldn't risk it.

HelenaDove · 24/04/2016 23:30

Exactly Lweji People are basically saying that she should treat the relationship like a roulette wheel and take a gamble that everything will be ok.

As for me im not into gambling. Never have been.

EverySongbirdSays · 24/04/2016 23:33

Based on what the OP said about how her boyfriend treats her, yes I'd be happy for someone like that to marry my daughter

I know I'm breaking the established posts by feeding the troll BUT

YOU WOULD BE HAPPY FOR YOUR DAUGHTER TO HAVE A HUSBAND WHO JOKES TO HIS MATES ABOUT WOMEN HE SHOULD HAVE RAPED WHEN HE HAD THE CHANCE.

??????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's quite clear to me that you chilledwarmth are of that ilk and have in your time joked about or fantasised about raping women and you don't like a thread which labels men of that ilk scum because you read that and know it includes YOU. Otherwise you would have a normal view on this.

Off you fuck - seriously

EveryoneElsie · 24/04/2016 23:34

Everone who thinks you should turn a blind eye to this should go read thesortingtwat 's post.

Not all men are such complete cunts. Tolerate the ones that are and they'll have no reason to fucking change.

NameChange30 · 24/04/2016 23:35

I think the options here are:

  1. End the relationship
  1. Give the relationship more time, but proceed with caution (and very effective contraception!) Call off the joint house purchase, try living together in a less permanent set up before making such a big financial commitment. See if he drops these mates of his own accord. See if there are any more red flags.

If it was my decision I wouldn't want to waste my time on #2, I'd cut my losses and move on so I could find someone who didn't hang out with twats in the first place.

KindDogsTail · 25/04/2016 01:06

I am very sorry Genie
This is a terrible dilemma for you.

At best he was being weak and trying to fit in. One problem to consider is that being weak and trying to fit in at any cost is a worrying trait. Everyone does that sometimes but to what extent? Have you seen other signs of that?

At a more unpleasant end of the scale he also enjoys depraved jokes with not very nice friends and actually started the whole thing in this case. It seems odd for a man of his age. Immature at the least. Do you want that?
Is he immature in other ways?

Could it be that he is sweet to you, but secretly very aggressive when he can get away with it?

So if you don't want to end your relationship now, in my opinion you should be cautious while you think about it all.

This an interesting piece about why rape jokes are wrong written for men like the OP's boyfriend and his friends
www.liberateyourself.co.uk/survivors/you-are-not-alone-personal-experiences/to-all-those-men-who-dont-think-the-rape-jokes-are-a-problem/

I am so sorry for the others who have posted here about having been raped. Flowers

HelenaDove · 25/04/2016 01:09

"At best he was being weak and trying to fit in."

He STARTED the conversation.

Jesus Christ how many more fucking times...........

Baconyum · 25/04/2016 01:13

Kinddogs excellent I especially like

"And if that doesn’t make you feel sick to your stomach, if that doesn’t make you want to throw up, if that doesn’t disturb you or bother you or make you feel like maybe you should at least consider not participating in that kind of humor anymore, not abiding it in your presence, not greeting it with silence…
Well, maybe you aren’t as opposed to rapists as you claim. "

There are some posters on this thread would do well to read this!

HelenaDove · 25/04/2016 01:23

Sorry KindDog I posted before i read your whole post Thanks

KindDogsTail · 25/04/2016 01:23

Helena,

Yes he did start it. This could be to fit in with what he perceives is the character of this group because he wants to be liked by them. (Obviously not a good sign anyway.)

At best is at one end, implying at worst at the other.

It is for the OP though to go on to decide given everything she knows about him and will be on the lookout for now.

KindDogsTail · 25/04/2016 01:25

That's OK Helena. Thanks Smile

Gabilan · 25/04/2016 08:30

To those saying "but he's lovely with the OP" the fact is he's scum when he's with his mates. That too is the real him. He acts in a particular way with his partner because it suits him and he gets what he wants from her - an easy relationship.

He acts in a completely different way with his mates for the same reason - to get what he wants. And from them he wants approbration. He's a chameleon. Now we all have slightly differing aspects according to who we're with. But the extent of that switch is worrying itself and all of it's for the same reason - to get what he wants.

KindDogsTail · 25/04/2016 08:34

Baconyum, I am glad you think that article is good.

AnyFucker · 25/04/2016 08:35

I believe Dr Shipman was a lovely husband

And Sonia Sutcliffe would attest to the fact that the Yorkshire Ripper wasn't a woman hating murderer all the time...