It's a wedding invite one...

[gininteacupsandleavesonthelawn]

In an effort to avoid a few posts in here about me later in the year- I need some guidance on how to ensure maximum reasonableness.

So, wedding next year, were about to book venue. Number 1 choice is somewhere we love, it's a bit luxury and a very special place for us. We're having a medium sized wedding c.70 guests. There's nowhere else that compares for us. Now the problem, they have a rule that all guests must be residents in the hotel- everyone must stay. It's expensive. Most guests don't live locally, so realistically would need a hotel room anyway. We don't have the budget to pay for the rooms for everyone. Some of our guest wouldn't bat an eyelid at the cost, some wouldn't be able to afford it. We could probably pay 50% of total room bill in our budget. So subsidise all rooms until they cost £50-75 per person ish? How would we even begin to word it on an invite?

How do we avoid being unreasonable? Should we give up and look elsewhere?

Thanks

www.macdonaldhotels.co.uk/our-hotels/macdonald-cardrona-hotel-golf-spa/weddings/wedding-packages/

I've only read the first few and last 3 pages of this, but I've been to a wedding at Gleneagles. It was 8 years ago when I lived up in Edinburgh and the b&g were friends of my then-boyfriend. Anyway, I think there were about 80 guests, and the bride's (minted) parents paid for the whole shebang. We were told that if we wanted to attend the wedding we had to stay, but the rooms were all paid for. We weren't asked for any contribution.

We could easily have afforded to pay for a room there ourselves, but we would have been a bit miffed at being effectively railroaded into paying a fairly steep admittance fee to the wedding. We would have seen it as basically us having to pay for their expensive venue. It's a nice place but personally Gleneagles and that type of place don't really float my boat, and it isn't somewhere I'd choose to go and stay at. As it was there were some guests who still didn't want to/couldn't stay there even with the "free" room. None of the guests I spoke to had time to go to the sauna or play golf either, we certainly didn't! You'd have to stay 2 nights to be able to do that.

The wedding itself was nice enough, not the best one I've been to and not the worst. I much prefer a more relaxed, private venue - the hotel and grounds were very busy and full of golfers, other guests, walkers, visitors etc. It wasn't what you'd call an intimate venue and didn't feel very exclusive given that lots of people were wandering around to go for lunch or have a nosey or whatever, but I guess it's whatever floats your boat on that score really. It was nice, but was it £25,000 or whatever crazy sum the parents must have paid worth of nice, absolutely not. They could afford it though, so they obviously saw it differently.

The kicker for you though OP, is that you can't really afford it. The cost of 'venue hire' at Gleneagles is inclusive of the cost of X number of rooms so that needs to be factored into your budget. You're effectively asking your guests to subsidise your choice of venue and that's really not on. Someone choosing to pay for something of their own volition is not the same as being railroaded into paying for it.

I was suggesting the op makes the bookings then keeps it an utter secret even from the people whose names are used for these bookings. The rooms would be empty which, like she says in the post of 17:09 would be a bit of a shame but no one gets to be a freeloader.

FishwithaBicycle, I don't think that works, because the hotel makes it a condition that guests have to be hotel residents. Therefore if you get people turning up in blissful ignorance of the fact that the b&g have booked a room in their names, when asked they'll tell the hotel they're not residents and will be turned away.

OP, you really need not to get carried away about this. If you subsidise the guests' rooms, that means that essentially you're paying out £12K for the privilege of possibly having a round of golf and using the spa. Surely you have better things to do with that amount of money?

OP, I'm going against the grain here, I think you've had an unnecessarily hard time on this thread... Many people are saying that they'd be upset/annoyed/outraged at being told they had to stay at the wedding venue, however, these people are not your close friends and family. If anyone close to me rang up and said "we're getting married at Gleneagles, we'd love you to be there. Everyone needs to stay there. We know it's expensive, so we can pay half of your room cost. Do you feel you will be able to come? We understand if you can't. We insist on no presents" I would move hell and high water to try and be there, and in no way would I feel anything but delighted to be invited.

Have I got it right that the wedding will be October 2017? That is nearly 18 months away. Surely, your close friends and family will get to know the venue long before the invites go out? They will have plenty of time to decide what to do. If it were me, and money was an issue, I would save in between now and the wedding. Just £10 per month would be enough to cover the cost of the room. (I'm sure some people will say "well I couldn't spare £10 a month" but only you will have an idea whether your close friends and family could).

I also think anyone who wouldn't attend simply out of principle of having to stay there are just cutting their nose off to spite their face. They would be getting to stay in a luxury hotel, at a discounted price, spend time with friends and family and see two loved ones get married. To pass up on that just because of the venue's rule seems, well, just a bit petty silly to me.

I know there will be individual situations that might be tricky, but on the whole, do you think you could talk to your intended guests and explain to them? Others might be aghast at that suggestion, but these are your close family and friends! Not some strangers on the Internet!

I also think some people might think you ABU if they don't know much about Gleneagles, thinking, 'Oh, it's just a posh hotel'. Well, it is a posh hotel, but it's also much more than that. We have stayed there twice, I can totally understand why you have your heart set on it.

I think you sound really lovely, OP. You aren't blindly dictating things to your guests, you are taking their needs into consideration. I don't think you are being unreasonable or a bridezilla. Talk to your close family and friends and see what they say. Good luck! can I come to the wedding? I will happily pay for myself

As a parent with three DC I would stay at the hotel where the wedding was unless it was really too much just to give us flexibility in the evening in terms of the children. Lovely as the idea is to include childcare as part of the package I would expect to be responsible for childcare arrangements and would care more about having the choice of where to stay. I'd be horrified if a factor in choosing a hotel where all guests had to stay at that hotel was to provide childcare as it is such an unreasonable condition to impose on everyone else. I would suggest you ditch the childcare requirement (and the golf course/spa as realistically you're not going to use them on your wedding day) and just pop a note in the invitations to those with children saying you will cover the cost of the evening childcare. It will give you much more choice and eliminate the bad feeling likely to be caused by forcing everyone to stay at a specific hotel.

But gossipgirladdict - however nicely you present the fact, or notice you give, there's no getting round the fact that if OP picks this venue then effectively she will be telling her friends and family how to spend their money.

As leopardghecko has said above, some people have perfectly valid reasons for not wanting to sleep at the venue and I just feel that any discussion about it more or less forces all the invitees to stay there, not to mention having to decide over a year in advance how they'd like to spend their own money. I just can't see any way of doing that - never mind how close and lovely everyone is - that isn't slightly awkward.

Also mentioning paying for your hotel room in lieu of a wedding present that's just tacky, as again there is a presumption that you will be going and you will be staying at this expensive hotel.

Don't get me wrong, if it was me I'd go to a friends wedding and I'd stay for the reduced rate at Gleneagles, but then I like posh hotels and going away. Zero chance I'd pay the full rack rate of £250+ per night as in that scenario, it's within an hour of my parents so we'd either stay there or find a cheaper local B&B.

Your wedding is an important landmark, so it's good to get it right, but not at costs you can't afford or by effectively forcing your guests to stay at the location.
Don't embarrass yourself by having conversations with them and telling them where they have to sleep, even if your intentions are good.

I agree with BeastofCraggyIsland

I have been to a wedding there. It was nice but by no means the best I've been to

It was all paid for by the brides parents so we didn't have to pay for the room.

I'm sorry but if it was me being invited as a guest I wouldn't be declining the invite.

It is being held to ransom and being given no choice about where we could stay.

Beast "We were told that if we wanted to attend the wedding we had to stay, but the rooms were all paid for. We weren't asked for any contribution. "

How do they actually police people staying though? I'm very sympathetic about people getting back to their own bed as well. Even overnight stays for me means taking various meds, inhalers, etc it's so much easier just to go home

Also that type of wedding doesn't allow for anyone who wants to attend only part of the day which would be quite common I imagine.

do you think you could talk to your intended guests and explain to them? Others might be aghast at that suggestion, but these are your close family and friends! Not some strangers on the Internet!

This is why you need strangers on the internet!

Most friends and family love you and want you to be happy, especially on your wedding day. It's really hard to say, to someone's face, you're being unreasonable, especially when they're very enthusiastic about something.

Getting in touch to 'explain' the situation doesn't pre-empt the awkwardness; it just brings it forward. You'd still be putting people on the spot. Arguably, it's worse than just sending out the invites: at least invites are yes/no. Now you're talking to them individually, and your venue choice hinges on their agreement. No pressure, but there's this PERFECT venue I'm in love with, and I can only have it if you pay £150 for your room.

Hands up who wants to be the 'difficult' one saying balls to that, please choose somewhere different? Or admitting you can't (or don't want to) spare £150, even if you could always save up at an affordable rate of thirty pence a day for eighteen months?

It's not just the money though, I live near Edinburgh, if I was invited to the OP's wedding I'd be planning on coming home that night and for various reasons staying elsewhere is a bit complicated.

Now if she was a close friend or relative yeah I'd make my complicated arrangements (which have a knock on effect to other people as well) and I'd pay for the hotel room that I didn't want, but honestly, I would slightly resent it.

You've put it so much more succinctly than I did Babooshka.

No matter how you phrase it, or when you do it, telling people how to spend their own money is always going to be rude.

Oh and most guests don't give a hoot about the specialness of the venue, or the individuality of the wedding reception room. They care about seeing their friends/family getting married, having their basic needs for food and drink met and being able to attend the wedding in a way that's financially affordable for them.

If most of your guests are travelling they will already be spending money on petrol, trains, planes and car hire. You cannot dictate to them where to stay unless you're prepared to pick up the whole tab.

I'm still laughing at KingJoffrey 'it's a wedding, not a hostage situation'

You've probably figured this out by this point, OP, but you can't get married at Gleneagles.

Either you have to be rich enough not to baulk at booking all the rooms, or enough of a celebrity for them to waive their daft rule.

As you are neither of the above, the only way to make it work is to get money out of your guests. Which as 20+ pages of this thread has told you, just isn't acceptable for myriad reasons.

Gleneagles might be your dream venue, but it's not going to be your guests'. If someone asked me to pay that money to stay in a golf hotel, I'd politely refuse. If they then told me I couldn't go to the wedding if I didn't stay there, I'd be incredulous.

I hope you find somewhere within budget that you like just as much, but won't enrage your guestlist.

I think you've been very reasonable in explaining your criteria and I think now recognising that Gleneagles isn't feasible due to its policy. I'd try to find somewhere that fits most of your requirements (and there have been some good suggestions on here) and then work out solutions to those bits that don't fit (eg hire in a babysitter).

Why not instead put aside some of your budget for a lovely weekend at Gleneagles, either as part of your honeymoon or as a treat pre or post the wedding (I had a lovely spa weekend there while dh dp at the time played golf a month or so before our wedding). Or plan it for your first anniversary - with or without kid(s).

So to attend they have to stay? Surely some people won't want to and will want to go back home? They can't insist and neither can you.

Lorelei9here - I didn't, DH wouldn't let me. Wish I had. We'd complained about other stuff and to my shame I didn't want them thinking I was a pita guest. Should have done as we would never got back.

They can't insist

They have the right to not allow you in though.

lorelei they cross referenced us against a list of wedding guests and room bookings. They had named seating arrangements so again, everyone who had a seat was also on a room booking.

Going, I wish you had.

King, yes, your hostage comment is legendary.

Babooshka "hands up who wants to be the 'difficult' one saying balls to that, please choose somewhere different? Or admitting you can't (or don't want to) spare £150, even if you could always save up at an affordable rate of thirty pence a day for eighteen months?"

I'd happily say "that's way too much to ask but I wish you all the best for your wedding and look forward to seeing photos". I wouldn't expect them to change their venue even if it was my sister or best friend but that's because I believe weddings really only need the couple and the legal person.

Which in turn makes me wonder,...if OP is okay with people saying no, she could just go ahead. I guess it's a case of "invitation or summons".

Beast, oh I see, but of someone didn't stay in a room that would be fine, is what I'm thinking, as long as couple pay up front.

I will never understand how weddings got like this. Maybe for the super rich but otherwise I don't get it.

BeastofCraggyIsland makes a good point about you not having an exclusive venue. I went to look at a very swish venue for my wedding which also had a golf course/spa. As we sat in the admittedly beautiful room talking to the wedding coordinator, random golfers were walking past the picture windows. There was also a wedding going on in another of the rooms and the bride was walking through reception in the middle of day trippers/people turning up for lunch in the restaurant.

And I'm afraid to say that however nice the management are being to you in your negotiations, the fact you're negotiating at all and not just block booking all the rooms yourself and paying for them will indicate to them that you just haven't got the money for this. And if there are people at Gleneagles that weekend who DO have lots of money to spend, they're the ones who'll be getting the attention. Sorry, but it's true.

I just feel that any discussion about it more or less forces all the invitees to stay there

There's no forcing. They don't have to accept.

I think I must have weird tacky by mumsnet standards family and friends, as I really don't think this would be a huge problem, and not because we're all rolling in it or anything, far from it.
My nephew and his girlfriend are getting married next year and I can imagine a conversation with my DSis like this...

DSis: Peter and Jane are looking at getting married on x date.
Me: Great! Where will it be?
DSis: Well, they're hoping Gleneagles. They have a specific rule...
Me: Ooh, lovely! Sounds expensive though...
DSis: They know, so they're going to offer to pay half for everyone's rooms.
Me: That's really kind of them. It might be a bit tight for us, but it's what, 18 months away? Yes, we'll be able to do that. We'd love to come.

Or

Me: Oh, no! That's going to be too much for us.
DSis: We knew it might be for some people, but they have their heart set on it.
Me: Yes, it's a shame, but it's their wedding. It will be fabulous. Can't wait to see the photos!

OK, so that's just my family and others would handle things differently, but none of us know how the OP's family would react. They might be like mine, they might not.

OP, at the end of the day, the people who really want to see you get married will be there, silly rules or no silly rules. A couple of PP have been sniffy about the £10 a month thing I mentioned upthread but I was just trying to show that people have time to budget for it.
Anyone who would accept and then sit bitching about it all day begrudge it, do you really want them there? You do have to be prepared though for some people to decline the invite who might have accepted had the venue been different.

I did have a thought about their guest rule... I wonder if they have had problems in the past with people sneaking guests into rooms? It would be really difficult to police if guests were able to say "this couple, oh no, they're staying at a different hotel" then just let them into their room to sleep. It's such a big, warren-like place, so easy just to wander off and the hotel would have no idea who was in what rooms....

Again, good luck, OP.

Please be aware that Gleneagles can only host weddings and wedding receptions when all guests attending are also resident in the hotel. Unfortunately we do not have sufficient capacity to accommodate non-residential wedding guests.
Gleneagles will be delighted to offer special accommodation rate for bookings of twelve rooms or more. The best rooms available on arrival will be allocated to the party.

I would read this as the best rooms will be given to full paying guests and your guests will get the best of the remaining rooms. I have a couple of friends who have stayed at Gleneagles on special accommodation rates and some of the Gleneagles rooms are very mediocre and small with poor views (also heard a few mentions of cold breakfasts). I'm sure you will have a lovely room, but be aware some of your guests will not get their moneys worth for the cost of their room, and requests to move room will not be possible especially if in the summer months when the hotel is busier for golf.

OP, at the end of the day, the people who really want to see you get married will be there, silly rules or no silly rules.

That's just not true though, is it? Some people might really want to see op get married but for whatever reason, just can't afford it or it isn't possible for them to stay etc. I don't think it will help op to tell her that anyone who isn't willing to spend a lot of money to go to her wedding obviously doesn't want to see her get married.

I would be able to budget accordingly to be able to attend, but that might be at the expense of my family holiday for instance. My priority would be my DH and children, no matter how much I'd love to see my friend get married.