To dislike my friends daughter?

[Thebrowntrout]

Am thinking yes.

She's 3. (I know, there are going to be a tonne of outraged SHE'S 3 posts. But stay with me.)

She demands to be carried everywhere. Won't go in the pushchair (she's a bit on the big side for it anyway) and friend has a younger DD as well who is 9 months and is generally carried in a sling or pushchair. So either friend has to struggle and stagger with the weight of two children or carry one on her hip with the other in the pushchair,

She wants what she wants immediately. Now. She will scream she wants a tissue. Friend gives her a tissue. She will continue screaming and screaming that she wants a tissue. These screaming fits are pretty much constant.

The younger child is pretty much ignored since friend is constantly dealing with older one, and you can't talk to friend at all due to behaviour of child 1.

So here are my questions - AIBU to think friend should possibly be encouraging child NOT to behave like this, and avoid friend because of it? The screaming is hard on the ears.

And when do they behave like humans? This child will be starting school in 16 months and surely won't be behaving like this then?

Have you just beamed down from another planet op? Three year olds can be total shits.

Thebrown

I think, as someone earlier said, that a 3 year old who always gets exactly what they want, however unreasonable, is actually one who must be pretty insecure because the adults aren't in charge.

But very tired parents fall into that trap easily.

YANBU.
There are quite a few children around that I dislike, same as there are a few adults. Does it affect how I behave around them and to them? No good job as I work in a primary school

You do realize she's a product of her mother parenting? My daughter was a bit of an nightmare at 3 but if I gave into everything like your friend did...my daughter would be like your friend dd.

Yes you are bu as the blame should be placed on the mother.

Yanbu. We can't like everyone, regardless of age. I was a child care practitioner for 7 years, have had my own children 8 years. Recently realised I struggle to like a child whose parents I have to have semi-regular contact with. Never felt it before, and I know it's largely due to the fact that said parents have created a monster, as child has a total lack of boundaries. She screams to get her own way, pushes other children over, grabs adults arms and makes loud demands, the list goes on. I'm a loving individual and chose my career for that reason, I also consider myself very tolerant. But I don't like that child. Same as you, this is the only child in my life I have ever felt this way about.

I'm going to go against the grain here and agree with the OP. All three year olds have their moments, and so did DD, but they were moments, it wasn't constant. None of my friends had three year olds who were that demanding either.

DD is 16 now and hates small children. She doesn't actually hate them, she hates the whining and screaming noises that they make. She says that if she ever has children she would adopt a five year old.

I think the suggestion of offering to take the baby is a good one.

I probably would have thought the same as the OP a few years ago.
I would be a firm parent with clear boundaries and never allow a child to dictate how my day goes or order me about.

Then I had a gorgeous, extremely bright, persistent, stubborn, loud child. At 3 he was highly flammable. I'm sure his demands irritated my friends who had placid, obedient kids and I know his personality drained me. It's exhausting being that calm, measured, firm parent all the time, during good hours and crazy hours.
Offer to take the baby for a bit. Your friend needs that.

Looking at it from the perspective of the 2nd child, op, the baby is probably quite happy with the attention she gets. Second-borns are very tolerant in the baby years ime

From the pov of the parent, she's knackered and dealing with her dd as best she can while trying valiantly to see friends. I imagine she doesn't like the tantrums either but is clinging to the thought that this too shall pass. She probably appreciates seeing you, her friend, for a chat and a bit of a distraction.

From the pov of you, you say you're a second child. I wonder if there were also more-than-average expectations of good behaviour placed on you as a child? I ask because I was expected to be angelic and got hit if I wasn't. I get really unreasonably furious with my own DC sometimes because they don't automatically obey me out of fear I think I'm really just resentful that they are better treated than I was and are unappreciative of it. But why/how could they appreciate it? This is my stuff, not theirs. Something to consider anyway.

She'll probably grow out of it and be a really lovely and considerate person, you know!

She wants attention and so when you're there as well her mum's attention is split even further.

It'll pass in the meantime suggest meeting up in the evenings!

FWIW it would piss me off too

I did wonder if it was projection, but I don't think so. I really love my sibling, and despite his needs he didn't really behave like that as a toddler. I think what was harder for me growing up was our mum used us both but especially me (as it went over siblings head a bit!) as something to take her frustration out on! But I digress.

Contessa, hopefully :) I know people's personalities aren't fixed at 3, don't worry! I mean, I was a lovely 3 yo by all accounts and now look, the mere sight of me terrifies a small child so much that she screams

I have explained with the baby - they don't leave friends sight really. She's a lovely mum and I'm not sounding critical here, but she doesn't really have anyone else have them.

The other point is while the baby is 9 months, it's not like she's had 9months to get used to her brother needing attention, as a newborn, if he was in slings, for the older one, he was this quiet thing asleep a lot of the time. At 9 months, he'll be crawling and touching things, perhaps pulling himself up (my DC2 was walking at 10 months), suddenly, he's got a personality and needs much more attention, he's not a thing their mummy holds, but a person, a person she's expected to share with, but if she shouts a lot, she'll not have to share.

Most 3 year olds can't walk long distances, your friend has clearly decided not to get a double buggy so yes, she'll have to carry 2 or try to squish 2 dcs in a buggy for 1, my dc2 is nearly 3, she can't walk the whole 0.7 miles to dc1's school most days, I'll walk with the buggy or expect to have to carry her. When dc1 was 3, he still needed to be carried or put in a buggy/pulled along on a scooter for part of the way on walks that lasted a mile. It does sound like you have and your friend have unrealistic ideas about how far she can walk without help. Tired children whinge.

It's also worth questioning when you see them, surely the 3 year old goes to preschool for 3 hours a day? Are you seeing her in the early evenings when the toddler is knackered? My 2 year old is angelic now, she'll be a cow from around 4:30pm until bedtime. (And it's a toddler thing, not just oldest child, dc2 hates dc1 getting attention, she smashed up the chess game dc1 was playing with DH last night because she couldn't join in, toddlers want to be the centre of parental attention, that 9 month old will be kicking off on the school run in due course)

You don't know how you would deal with something.

Doing the firm boundaries thing with DS3 made him a hundred times worse (& believe me - I have no problems setting firm boundaries - I have a lot of experience of distressed behaviours that goes way beyond what a 3 year old can produce). So being all firm might get approving nods from others with limited experience of behaviour but did bugger all to improve ds3's behaviour.

In his case it was probably anxiety that made him so horrific & so he needed an understsnding approach once he had lost the plot. (I found that being firm about what I expected BEFORE he lost the plot, coupled with calm once he'd lost it was the best approach).

Ok I'm going to try and understand what yiu mean and where you are coming from. I have a DS with ASD so he comes with his own challenges. My friend has 2 children aged either side by less than a year. Her youngest sounds like the 3yo you are describing.

I'm never sure what came first 'chicken or egg' with her youngest because she was 1yo when friend and I met through nursery DCs attended. However she generally ruled (and still tries to) everything that goes on. She discovered using screaming and silent avoidance works well for her. When we used to go out as a group she'd hit, kick, bite her sister/my DS if they so much touched her trolley/pushchair etc. Whilst I totally 'got' many people are like this - many struggle with sensory environments - the concern for me was that the children who touched it got told off and told it was their fault because she didn't like it and they did it iyswim? Unfortunately it may warming to this child difficult.

I will admit it was a hard few years. Eating with my friend wasn't pleasant as her DD would hang over us and our food demanding it. But why woukdnt she when no just meant carry in being a whinge bag and verbally bashing your mum to get it in the end anyway.

When she hit 9/10 she struggled massively at school with friendships and claimed to be bullied and was also accused of being a bully. She'd never learnt or been taught screaming and verbally abusing others wasn't the way to get what she wanted and children stopped responding to her threats and demands to retain her friendship.

Like I say, my own son has difficulties, I address these as when needed. One day I had a good chat with my friends DD and told her how much her behaviour makes her dislike able, that I didn't want her visiting if she couldn't respect my house or people in it with her. I basically told her she was a great kids and listed her strengths but told her if she chose to behave like a brat in my house she'd be unwelcome. I told her she knows exactly how to behave and ask properly for things and was evidenced by the fact at school where she'd get into trouble for the behaviour she doesn't do it.

If your friend is happy for you to be involved try backing her up. So over the tissue say "DD, your mum have you a tissue why don't you show me what a good girl you are by blowing your nose". Encourage her to get your attention by behaving positively. Model this.
With the dogs how about "DD, let's race to the end of the road - I have a sweet in my pocket for the winner".
Distraction can be a great way to get kids out of demanding behaviour patterns.

All children (and adults!) come in all shapes and sizes - you will like some more than others. I'm a firm believer that if you won't befriend a demanding adult why would a demanding child be endearing to you? The difference is an adult often has more choice over their behaviour whereas a child just needs a bit more of your guidance.

I think it might be projection in another guise then; your mental image of childhood probably involves an element of 'keeping mummy happy' in hopes of making it so that said frustrations were not taken out on you. You may be more sensitive to that than most.

This would make your friend's dd's behaviour even more unnerving for you - seeing as she sounds typically self-centred for this age group and not particularly invested in keeping mummy happy. Neither are my kids tbf!

I find that understanding my own responses helps me to cope with the differing responses of others and to respond appropriately. May be helpful to you?

If a nine month old is being neglected and a three year old is being carried everywhere, then the three year old sounds over indulged to me.

Sometimes children have to learn about sharing and waiting for attention, the ones that the world revolves around tend to turn into not very pleasant individuals in my experience.

Oh distractions work for about ten seconds.

'Ooh LOOK at the doggy sniffing round the tree ... for Fairies!'
Silence. Sniff. Sniff.
'I WAAAAANNT MYYYY DOLLLEEEE!'

There's probably all sorts of reasons why I find this child so difficult to warm to, and as I've said, it's made me realise I CAN'T have my own as can you imagine not liking your own? But I can't help it!

To clarify: I believe that most kids who are brought up in an emotionally healthy environment will probably be quite self-centred until oh, about 5 or so (random number based on DS1). Kids who obsess over 'Mummy will be angry' and modify their behaviour accordingly before that age are, ime, being made into adults before their time and probably fear the parent somewhat. I find that sad. The selfish mode is probably healthier for the child, if more annoying for me....

I often dislike my own but it's improving dramatically as they get older and more rational!!

Good grief there are some sanctimonious posters on here! It's not like op is beating the 3 year old, just not liking her screaming.

OP I thought 'stfu brat' was very funny - and appropriate given the situation. :)

I found myself in this situation with my youngest - she was an easy baby who never cried, so when suddenly she started to we took her too seriously. Her older brother adores her so gave in to her willingly, as did we.

She's only 2.4 but I suddenly realised she was becoming a brat when she doesn't get her own way - adorable, clever, precocious... But still a brat. So we're working on boundaries, 'nice asking ' etc etc. Kids, even v young ones, learn remarkably quickly what gets them results!

More applicable to your situation, a friend had 2 close together and the little one was a bit ignored, in the cot/buggy etc, whilst the 'high maintenance' older one was still co-sleeping, in sling etc. They're much older now and delightful on the whole, but older is still high maintenance and younger is v chilled. :) nature or nurture?

I think the problem is that as a parent you often deal with the day to day, as it's all so overwhelming - esp when you're sleep deprived. It's standing back and looking at the big picture of what situation the drip, drip, drip of giving in (or whatever bad behaviour choice you're facilitating) is creating.

In that your sympathies are with the little one - understandably as she's getting a raw deal - offer to carry her and focus on her. Perhaps ask your friend if older dd 'always finds life this hard' or is it because you are there? ;)

Sssh OP! You can't say somebody's kid is unpalatable. It's like the Emperor's New Clothes. We need to maintain the facade that kids are delightful at all times- or there will be bedlam and infanticide in the streets.

3 year old's are generally a horrible bunch though tbf.

This is typical 3 year old behaviour instead of judging maybe offer help? Your friend may appear calm but shes probably exhausted and falling apart on the inside it probably took a massive effort just to get out the house to meet you yabu and a poor judgey friend

OP my DS2 is 2.5 right now. He is 70% angel and 30% rabid beast. DS1 was the same, and now he is an absolute sweetheart. You've just got to bear with it.

I had friends like you when I had DS1. Judgy, superior and generally disappointed in me and mine. I happily cut them out. Maybe your friend will too!

so you don't have kids of your own

you dont like it because your friend can't give you her undivided attention

she probably feels like she has 3 children when she is out with you

hopefully I mean, I do hope she doesn't, but I understand that my superior attitude might well lead to being put in a position where I don't get to spend hours of a day listening to someone else's child screaming.

How awful that would be.

Leelo

I can assure you LEM, I don't scream in her face, kick her or demand she carries me!

But you can't even say 'hello!' without said child erupting over SOMETHING!

Like I say, I won't be having children of my own, fear not - this child has terrified me off.