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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

AIBU to not want to socialise with someone convicted of sexual offences related to children?

770 replies

tomhardyonthewaltzers · 19/04/2016 16:46

Am I losing my mind? because apparently I'm being unreasonable!.

A friends wedding is coming up. Invitation arrived ages ago and I accepted. I was really looking forward to it as would see lots of friends from Uni I haven't seen for years.

One of our old friendship group was several years ago convicted of making and distributing child abuse images. He got a suspended sentence. His GF was also part of our friendship group and she stuck by him. I cut contact with both of them.

A few years later he was caught again and jailed this time. GF found out she was pregnant just after he went inside. Again she stuck by him and they now have two children together and are still a couple but not living together since he was released.

They're both invited to the wedding which I only just found out. So I told friend who's getting married that I won't attend now because they're going.

So now I'm being pressured by the rest of the friendship group. Told that friend who's getting married is devastated, that her wedding won't be the same if I'm not there to watch her get married. Can't I just put my opinion aside for one day? That they don't want to see him either but wouldn't let the bride down. I was even called selfish!.

I CANNOT watch him laughing and joking at the reception or having a dance or whatever. I just can't watch him enjoy himself knowing what he's done and I am more angry with his partner really, although I know that's unfair but I just can't fathom her thought processes at all.

Would anyone on here be able to put it aside and go? I do feel guilty about letting my friend down and upsetting her and it seems like I'm the only one of our friendship group making this decision.

OP posts:
GrimmauldPlace · 19/04/2016 19:52

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NeedACleverNN · 19/04/2016 19:52

I actually have no words to respond to cate
I am disgusted by her attitude

Zaurak · 19/04/2016 19:53

There's a thread on another board asking how people can justify an abuser and the abused being in the same room at family gatherings- the general consensus is that this should never happen and that those who think it's ok are enablers.,

Yanbu, op. The concept of shame and opprobrium seems to be going out of fashion. In some ways, that's been positive (no shame in living out of wedlock for example) but shame does have a huge part to play in keeping the darker sides of human behaviour in check.

By partying alongside this guy, the guests are saying that they do not think his crimes are deserving of shame and social shunning. That's a very dangerous message to send.

So no, I wouldn't go. And I'm afraid that I'd be informing the parents of any minors attending as well.

StealthPolarBear · 19/04/2016 19:54

" What you are saying is an adult version of the playground 'I won't be friends with you, if you are friends with him'"
Yes. It's saying you disagree with his actions and his character so strongly you would forfeit time spent with her as you feel it justifies not having to spend time with him.
He may have served his sentence. How member of the general public choose to interact with him is their choice. My choice is that I avoid paedophiles at all costs and do not afford them any of the usual social pleasantries that make the world go round.
Not something I have to worry about very often!

Ratbagcatbag · 19/04/2016 19:55

This reply has been deleted

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Iliveinalighthousewiththeghost · 19/04/2016 19:56

Catewood. No he shouldn't be allowed to move on. His victims will never forget. Why should he.

ohtheholidays · 19/04/2016 19:57

No I would not go and honestly I'd cut off all those that have anything to do with him and his stupid girlfriend!

I am a Christian but I'm also someone that was a victim of some of those sick acts that bastard would have been fucking looking at from the age of 3 so to any of those saying he's paid his debts or don't make it about you can go and Fuck themselves!!

It never ever leaves those children that were raped and abused ever.If that creep was locked away for 50 years it would still be with those poor kids.Those adults that were victims of the rape and abuse as a child carry that damaged child around inside them well into being adults1

If any of you saying you'd go have children of your own would you be saying that if it happened to one of your children or a child you know,of course you wouldn't so why should it be any different just because you might not know the children it was happening too?Some of the oppinions on this thread are sickening they really are!

Those that think it should be let go should meet some of these poor kids that this has happened to,I have,alot of them try to take they're life's before they're anywhere near becoming an adult,go and tell them that it should be let go or that he's paid his debt to society.I'm married to a Police Officer who has close friends that have to deal with the aftermath of some of these cases they'd be sickened by some of the comments on here they really would!

AugustaFinkNottle · 19/04/2016 19:57

catewood, clearly the social workers dealing with this man think he's still a potential threat. Would you care to tell them they should let him move on with his life?

Sure, the bride can invite who she wants. But the guests can refuse. An invitation isn't a summons. And refusing an invitation isn't an ultimatum.

thebacksofmyhands · 19/04/2016 19:57

Ratbag Thank you for your strength in getting him convicted. Flowers

Andrewofgg · 19/04/2016 19:58

He can move on with his life in the sense that he is out of prison, most of the people he sees in day-to-day life do not know he was ever there, he can own a computer and a phone for legitimate purposes, at some point the convictions will be spent except for certain lines of work.

All this gives him a degree of normality which the victims may never have, which is true of many crimes.

He is not being prevented from "moving on with his life" by reason of people like the OP refusing to regard it as ancient history and pretend it had never happened. That is the choice of the OP and everyone who knows the story.

AntiqueSinger · 19/04/2016 19:58

Reading subsequent posts I do think that like Queenie said, it is highly inappropriate for this man to be at a wedding in the first place. Also yes your point about people colluding in covering up and sweeping abuse under the carpet is on point in this situation, otherwise they would never have invited him to a family gathering.

Were it an adult only event I think my point would still stand, because you haven't factored in the possibility of him having served time and reformed.

It isn't an appropriate event for him to be in however so I change my view from YABU to YANBU.

thebear1 · 19/04/2016 20:00

Op you are not being unreasonable. No one has to attend another person's wedding and your reasons are very valid. It is worrying your long term friends don't agree.

AugustaFinkNottle · 19/04/2016 20:00

catewood, as a matter of interest, would you allow this man to look after your children? After all, he's paid his debt to society.

thebacksofmyhands · 19/04/2016 20:01

ohtheholidays Flowers

Sixweekstowait · 19/04/2016 20:01

cate.Having completed a prison sentence does not automatically equate with having paid your debt to society. It just means you've been punished by the system - not the same thing at all.

Original poster
tomhardyonthewaltzers · 19/04/2016 20:02

Theback - Thank you SO much for your post. It's great to hear from someone who works in that field. As I've said, I know that within the hundreds of images he'd downloaded, a handful were grade/category 5. I know what that means but wish I didn't.

I just don't think there's any way an individual can find a way back from that. There can be no excuses or mitigating circumstances. There can be no forgiving or forgetting. No putting it aside even if it just is for one day.

Livingina - my understanding of events from friends who maintained contact with the couple is that he was released after first child was born (as previously mentioned, GF found out she was pregnant around the time he was sent down) and first had no contact mandated then contact supervised by SS and over time he 'earned trust' in SS supervised visits plus engaging with probation etc. Now contact is supervised at all times by his GF Confused and they can't live together and that's okay.

It sounds unbelievable but in my profession I've attended child protection meetings and it's not uncommon. I've known people serve prison time for physically sexually abusing a child (I mean they personally did it rather than contributing to abuse by viewing images) and they were permitted contact with child family members so long as it was supervised by another family member SS deemed reliable and protective and they were never left alone with the child or involved in dressing, bath or bedtimes.

I think it's bollocks myself but it definitely does happen with SS support.

OP posts:
RupertPupkin · 19/04/2016 20:03

Ratbagcatbag Flowers Sending you hugs. You sound like an incredible person, what you did took so much courage.

WellErrr · 19/04/2016 20:04

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DioneTheDiabolist · 19/04/2016 20:12

YANBU OP. I wouldn't go, I couldn't enjoy it. After a couple of drinks I know I wouldn't be able to stop myself saying something, especially if he was holding court.

yorkshapudding · 19/04/2016 20:15

I work with victims of child sexual abuse and CSE. I have worked with kids who have starved themselves to near death because they blame themselves for their abuse and "don't deserve food". I have worked with kids who have cut their own faces, stopped washing and started deliberately soiling themselves in efforts to make themselves less attractive to their abusers. I have worked with children who have taken repeated overdoses, tied ligatures, cut themselves so badly they have required surgery to repair nerve damage, attempted to drown themselves, basically tried everything they can think of to end their lives because even after their abusers have been caught and locked up, the memories are so horrific that they would rather die than have to experience them for one more day.

Men like OP's former friend are complicit in and benefiting from the abuse of kids like these. They are complicit in the ruining of young lives that have barely even begun.

Good for you OP Flowers Some things are more important than a fucking wedding. Some of the responses on this thread are utterly ridiculous.

Valanice1989 · 19/04/2016 20:17

I get the frustrated by the argument that because someone has served their time and "paid their debt to society", they should no longer face consequences for their actions. Legal consequences and social/personal consequences are different areas.

No one would tell a woman whose husband had been in prison for rape, for example, that she should take him back when he's released because "he's served his time now". People would accept that the marriage and the prison sentence were two different things. The same applies on a lesser scale to friendship. This man will have to accept that people who were happy to socialise with him before the conviction may no longer want to do so.

And I'm baffled by the people who are worried about the bride's "big day" being ruined. Honestly? Surely a grown woman should be mature enough to accept that if she invites a convicted paedophile to her wedding, she might lose a few of the other guests?

MetalMidget · 19/04/2016 20:17

If he got a suspended sentence then it suggests his offence was not as serious as some other offences.

I had a former colleague who was given a suspended sentence for having hundreds of images of child abuse, some falling into the most serious categories (and some also involving animals). The reasoning being that he cooperated with the police, pleaded guilty and is autistic.

There was also the case of Andrew Boeckman, an 18 year old Etonian student, who was given a suspended sentence despite owning and distributing videos and photos of toddler rape that were so horrendous the judge couldn't bring himself to describe them.

It's not uncommon for paedophiles who possess child abuse videos and photos to get a suspended sentence for the first offence, with the proviso they have to undergo treatment. The OP's former schoolmate has been through this, and gone on to reoffend. Can't blame her for wanting to stay well clear, and pretty shocked that he has any friends left.

AcrossthePond55 · 19/04/2016 20:18

Catewood there are some crimes that create a 'debt to society' so huge that it can never be repaid. Child sex offenses is one of those crimes, especially in the internet age where these vile images can be vomited out to the global pervert community via the www before you or I can blink an eye. It is a crime that never ends but goes on and on, as long as those images are out there. Paedophiles will be still be looking at those images long after you and I are dust.

How on earth can this bastard ever repay that debt? He cannot

My former manager was convicted of distribution of child sex images. He's currently serving a 20 year sentence. His wife is sticking by him even though he actually admitted his guilt. No one knows why she is, but she is. Most of her friends (including me) have deserted her. Her own son has turned against her and will not let her see her only grandchild. I feel no pity for her.

Seeyounearertime · 19/04/2016 20:18

catewood21
Read: yorkshapudding

Repeatedly to yourself and then tell me that he deserves to move on...

MrsUnderwood · 19/04/2016 20:19

If I took my kids to a wedding and then later found out one of the guests was a paedophile and the bride knew, I'd be fucking livid. is she insane?!

OP is completely in the right. Zero tolerance is the way to go.