to completely change the DCs routine against DPs wishes?

[LissaLoves]

Our DC are 8, 4 and 15 months.

DP leaves at 6.15 am so he can go to the gym or do his hobby before work. He returns at 6.45 pm. Currently we all eat as a family at 6.45 but it then means that the kids are always in bed later than I'd like - usually 9/9.30. I take the older two up and he watches baby downstairs then I feed him to sleep too.

They are always happy in the evening but I have to wake them all at 7.30 ready to leave at 8.10 and they all struggle to get up and say they're tired. It's always rushed and hectic and sometimes we're late for school/nursery.

I want to start waking all DC at 7. Have tea around 5.15 because middle DC has SN and takes at least an hour to eat. I want to eat with them and have them in bed for 8. DP complains that he'll have to get home and sort his own food while I sort the DC and that he won't see them all week. However, he hardly does anything with them when they're up late anyway - just spectates while I play with them and I don't think it's fair on them to always be tired and rushed in the morning for the sake of having tea with him.

Aibu?

What are you getting out of this relationship?

God, op, this sounds awful.

It's NOT normal behaviour for your 8yo never to spend time with their dad.

Your dh needs to do some parenting classes, I think - but the, if he doesn't think he's a crap parent, would he be willing to go to classes??

And I would definitely change the dc's routine so they eat tea at say 5, the bath at 6 and bed by 7-8. Bet you'd see a world of difference in their behaviour. 7.30 to 9.30 is far too long a day! Dc need sleep.

Do you still love him at all? Or has his behaviour over the past 8 years killed your love for him? He sounds ... Selfish. Unbelievably so.

Fava - annoyed, resentful, exhausted? I can't think of anything positive right now.

I'd bring this up over in relationships where you are likely to get some better responses. You're being treated awfully and it really sounds like your kids are as well.

Cocktail if I'm honest I feel like he loves me a lot more than the DC and I feel like I love the DC a lot more than him. I think we'd still be happy if we hadn't had them but that I'd be way happier with just them than continuing the way we are.

lissa - for you

I'm not surprised. Why don't you think about what you want out of this, and sit down with your h and talk things through. Tell him honestly how bad things have got, how unappreciated you feel, how useless he is with the dc, that you're considering leaving him. See what he says.

Good luck.

Well, you have had them, and sadly for this excuse for a man, their needs come first.

Are you going to continue putting up with his crap?

MrsL - he doesn't want to reheat his dinner, that's why he doesn't want the DC to be fed at a time that actually meets their needs, rather than his.

Actually, what her OP said was:
"DP complains that he'll have to get home and sort his own food while I sort the DC and that he won't see them all week."

To me, that means that he doesn't want to be sorting out food while the OP sorts bedtime, as that means he won't see them. I don't get why a father wanting to eat dinner with his own children is so outrageous. Nor how it translates into putting his needs before theirs - rather the reverse, in my view. The real problem here is that it apparently takes 2 and 3/4 hours to eat dinner and get them to bed. I gave lots of suggestions upthread as to how that could be cut down, but tbh the OP seems to be more interested in complaining that he won't just do as she says.

Wow, MrsL, are you reading a different thread? Or stuck in the 1950s? The OP sounds worn out and ground down by her dick of a DH refusing to parent his children. Working full time doesn't mean you aren't a parent.

What CocktailQueen says...you need to talk, it sounds to me like he hasn't a clue how bad you are feeling, men need things spelt out to them sometimes and don't read the signs. You are both tired which can highlight every crack.

When I said have a gentle chat previously, I meant to talk but not go in ranting straight away, this has all built up in your mind but to him will be the first he has heard of it. Not much will be achieved if you can't talk civil. He needs to know the extent of the problem, him not helping with the DC is not only making you exhausted and resentful of him (if he loves you as much as you think, which I'm sure he does, he wont want that) and damaging his relationship with his children. Don't expect him to change/miracles over night, but ask him to try and make some small steps to getting closer to the kids.

I hope things work out for you. I know you posted asking about the childrens routine initially and this has ended up with relationship advice!

Exactly river... She obviously is not reading the same thread

MrsL if the OP DP was so against this change in routine because he wanted to see the children, he would of said just that and would not have bought this thing about food etc as to why the routine should stay the same.

Also, he just watches the OP being run ragged, whilst he flops himself on the sofa and falls a sleep.

If he really wanted to spend time with his children, he would help the OP put the DC to bath/bed and play with them.

Lissa, children are quite perceptive. You said that he doesn't appear to like being a father, the children probably pick up on this, hence why they don't want to spend time with him. Also, remember resentment can build up to be a major issue. You really need to speak with him....however, he may not want to change as life for him is very very comfortable.

You've tried it his way
it doesn't work - his way doesn't make anyone happy
so you HAVE to try it a different way

I ended up in a not dissimilar situation myself - it then evolved into making two entirely different meals in the evening - one for the kids then one for us once they’d been put to bed.
I gave that up quite rapidly before I was totally broken with it all, and I ate with the kids - sometimes I'd leave him dinner if it would reheat, sometimes not
I just didnt know what method was best.
I had in fact never seen how a family deals with this sort of thing - neither had he - both our fathers had worked shifts and that whole trying to eat meals with the kids "as that’s what good families do " was not possible for us as kids - and yet we managed to turn it into yet another stick to beat ourselves with as parents.

No blame for either of us -We just didnt know! and no mumsnet to ask on then.
Try something new
but
you must share the workload or you're done, resentment leads to contempt and there’s no way back from contempt.

FFS MrsLupo - what thread are you reading? If you RTFT you'd realise that her DP doesn't actually DO anything for the DC in the evening when he gets home. He just sees them eating dinner and he doesn't bother his arse doing anything after that.

OP, it's quite worrying that your DC seem to actually despise him so much. Is he emotionally abusive to them or something? It just doesn't seem like normal DC behaviour.

MrsL - he doesn't want to reheat his dinner, that's why he doesn't want the DC to be fed at a time that actually meets their needs, rather than his.

Actually, what her OP said was:
"DP complains that he'll have to get home and sort his own food while I sort the DC and that he won't see them all week."

To me, that means that he doesn't want to be sorting out food while the OP sorts bedtime, as that means he won't see them. I don't get why a father wanting to eat dinner with his own children is so outrageous. Nor how it translates into putting his needs before theirs

No. He is worried about his dinner and it being hot. His excuse is bull crap. He could still see his DC and be actively involved in bedtime. He finds that unacceptable because she should deal with the children and he should still get a hot dinner. Therefore the children must be sleep deprived to ensure he gets a hot dinner and still doesnt need to do a thing for the children. Poor OP must still do all childcare without one ounce of input from him.

MrsL, Are you aware that ongoing sleep deprivation is a form of torture for adults? For children its effects are far worse. They will be being harmed by constant sleep deprivation. I really cannot see how you think him wanting his dinner hot and not to do anything, at all, with the DC, like putting them to bed, isn't him putting his needs first.

The fact the DC actively dislike him shows that he does fuck all for them and shows zero interest in them. That is never normal.

Eating together is really important to us as a family, but when our children were small it wasn't a particularly harmonious time as dd was very fussy and so meals were very plain and a bit stressful for a few years. The OP has already said that her middle child's SNs mean that meals can take up to an hour, so I can't imagine that they are really that much of a fun time for her either.

In the days when our children had stories read to them it was the bedtime routine that really mattered. dh and I mostly worked full time (dh has also had periods of being part time and a SAHD) and so our children were usually fed by the time we got home. Evenings were full on child focused, time for a bath, some childrens TV (often from dh and my childhood), a story and a song. Both dh and I really enjoyed this time, it's really sad that this father wants to opt out of all of that.

You've posted many, many times about him, he doesn't see his other kids and plenty of us here tell you to leave this arse, over and over again.

You name change but your posts are very easy to spot.

My kids are 3 and 4. My husband is rarely home before 730, usually nearer 8. No parricular reason, he is may busy at shirk and/or faffs about a lot too. The 3 of us eat at 5, then they watch tv till 6, then it's bath and bed, which i do every night by myself. When the kids were younger i did everything later with the hope that he would come home earlier and help as found ir hard to cope by myself and asked my husband to come home earlier, but he never did..... After months of frustration, i accepted be would never be home earlier, so i had to do things to suit myself and the kids. I found doing things earlier really helped and they went to sleep earlier. My husband moaned about having to reheat food for himself, but i just said, be home for 5 and it will be hot!

I think I must be reading a different thread, yes. Recent posters are mentioning things that the OP has posted before, so there's obviously a monumental backstory to this that I'm unaware of. I have RTFT and I'm most definitely not stuck in the 1950s. I'm not saying the OP's DP is doing a grand parenting job and clearly they need to talk about the division of labour and his relationship with the children. But it's also becoming clear that this thread was never about dinner time/bed time but rather about the fact that the OP has already checked out of her relationship emotionally and is looking for validation for that position. If she want's to LTB, then obviously she's NBU as everyone always has that right, but why she's musing about bedtimes in that case is beyond me. I think I will bow out now as I don't know all the other information others appear to know, and my attempts to be constructive about the stated problem are clearly not what's wanted. Good luck, OP.

*wants, obviously

Change it. No question. He is still in the door over an hour before they will be in bed so that's "his time" to spend with his children.

They will all be in a better place if they a) generally get more sleep and b) have a full stomach when he walks in the door.

If he wants to eat with everyone mid week then he needs to pick one or two days a week to knock the gym on the head and be home by 5.

If he doesn't want to eat by himself then fine, then he nominates 2-3 evenings a week where he cooks for you and you both sit down at 8pm. Any muppet can steam some salmon and veggies and boil up some potatoes. It doesn't have to be Masterchef.

So he is pleasing himself by going to the gym, and thereby not helping get the children up and off to school. So he doesn't see them then.

And he is pleasing himself by coming home later and demanding that you all eat together, and then not helping with bath and bedtimes.

And he is pleasing himself by slobbing about on the sofa and not interacting with his children because he'd rather they watched tv than him having to play with them.

So you are justified in pleasing yourself by feeding the children at a time which meets their needs, and getting them to bed at a time which also meets their needs.

If you do it right, they'll be up early enough to catch him before he goes to the gym.

So I spoke to him on Saturday and he said he'd try harder over the weekend. Tonight he's said he thinks I'm controlling and that he'll only do more if he does it his way. His examples were -

DS complained about going in his buggy. DP let him walk instead. DP asked him to hold hands next to road. DS refused but was still allowed to walk next to road.

4 year old randomly slapped DP a few times over the weekend and refused to do anything he asked. He did nothing about it.

DS didn't want to get in his highchair so DP let him sit on the seat at the breakfast bar.

8 year old was rude to him and he did nothing.

DS didn't want to go in the trolley at the supermarket so he let him walk and just kept following him, replacing items on shelves, grabbing him out of the way of trolleys and didn't actually get anything we needed.

He asked for feedback about where he could improve. I said he could think ahead- I. E. Now DS will kick off thinking he can sit at breakfast bar instead of highchair which isn't safe or practical. DS will refuse to go in buggy and hold hands near road with me and not understand why its unaccrptable. DS will make a fuss when I won't let him walk in the supermarket because I don't think it's safe or practical. 4 year old might slap or not listen to me and will be disciplined which sends mixed messages, same with 8 year old being rude.

He said its his choice if he let's DS walk/not go in seats and if he has a problem with the way he's spoken to. I feel like we should be a united front and things like safety (walking near roads and in supermarkets) are non negotiable.

He's useless and he's not going to change.

He doesn't know how to parent and has no intention of learning.