To judge the parents of a child who always has extremely knotty, unkempt hair?

[OhGodNotAnotherUserName]

Would this fall into neglect? There is a child I know, who is 9 and she always has extremely knotty hair - as in almost her whole head of hair is one massive knot. She is also a very shy child. The mother just laughs it off when it is mentioned, saying that her DD doesn't like having it brushed.

I can't help feeling this is neglectful. I know that other children tease the girl because of it and she generally seems like she lacks confidence etc.

The excuse doesn't really wash with me either, my DD who is 4 doesn't like her hair brushed sometimes but there is no way I would go a day without brushing it.

AIBU for this to spike my concern? I feel sorry for the girl and feel I can't help being judgemental to the mother. AIBU?

I was the exact same, I hated my mum brushing (or even touching) my hair but I love other people touching it. If the kid looks fine overall and it's just the hair then I'd say overreaction.

I really wish people would, if they can't be arsed to rtft, at least read the OP posts!

She is the 9 year old girl in question. And was neglected and is wondering why no one raised it back then.

Dd2 has her hair brushed out and plaited back every morning. By lunch time she with have at least a couple of huge matts that take ages to brush out.
If I do it, I get shrieks and tears. If someone else does it she sits there with a look of bliss and doesn't move a muscle.

Well OP shouldn't be approaching things arseways then and highlighting one issue when there is a broader context.

I was a 9 year old with uncared for, unwashed hair living in an alcoholic home barely spoken to half the time, shouted at the other -scrabbling for pennies under the floor to buy lunch on the way to school, listening to my parents scream and throw furniture at eachother, eating nothing but food from a microwave.

I have a 2 year old who is absolutely adored, lives in a safe comfortable home, has regular meals, playtime on the floor, cuddles on demand, a bedtime story every night and is spoken to kindly and gently by parents who respect eachother. With very, very knotty hair that looks like he's been dragged through a bush backwards.

I agree with your concern OP. I think as adults we shouldn't turn a blind eye to children who may be being neglected.

I think you need to look at other factors too. Is the child wearing unwashed clothes? Does she appear hungry or have behavioural problems. You may not be able to fully assess the child but it's worth googling childhood neglect signs. How she reacts to her mother, their attachment etc.

If everything looks normal and the shyness is not excessive I think you need to step back and trust the teachers are in a better position to assess this girl. They have training in child protection.

Unfortunately even with the other signs even if a school did flag it up there's only so much they can do. In the 80s there would have been even less.

I work in a High school, there are children who have lost all their teeth due to poor dental hygiene, greasy, matted head lice infested hair. Uniforms that are too small and smell of weed and alcohol (from their environments) , grey shirts, holes in shoes, smell so bad you can't sit next to them. Children who shake visibly when in a new situation, who cry at the drop of a hat.

All we can do is flag it up, I'm a TA so not entirely aware of what goes on behind the scenes but all these children still live with their parents, they haven't been removed despite all those aspects being reported.

Boomingmarvellous has summed it up beautifully.
This tangled hair MAY be a pointer towards neglect but there are other things to consider as well.
Does the child have other issues? Is there a persistent smell of urine/dirty underwear? Is the child excessively hungry/thirsty?
As Booming says, there are experts who can assess far better than us.

I don't mind the op's comments. It is other people making judgemental comments when they have no idea of the reality of other peoples lives.

On it's own I see it's not a sign of neglect, but as part of a pattern of wider behaviour, it might be.

I'm amazed at those saying that they can't brush their children's hair age 9/10 unless they genuinely have sensory issues/other physical reason why brushing isn't great (like someone gave the very good example of where there's been surgery on the scalp). I just refuse to go out in public with my children unless they have brushed their hair, cleaned their teeth and had a bath or shower (including hair washing) within a day or two. It's not negotiable, I'm not going out with unkempt unwashed children! Nor are they allowed to go to school unwashed and unkempt (they can stay home on the weekend in their pjs and be minging though).

I have one child aged 12 who is water shy, hates showers and fusses and even cries (very occasionally) when having a shower if she's tired. Shall I let her go to school then having not washed for a week?

Honestly, half of the people on this thread I am sympathetic to- the ones with kids with sensory issues, with extremely difficult hair to manage, with physical scalp issues. The rest I am not, it smacks of not wanting to put your foot down.

I just don't agree this isn't a battle worth fighting, I guess. I think part of learning to be a social adult (mine being pre-teens/coming into teen years) is to learn the hygiene habits of your society and stick to them. This occasionally means putting your foot down about brushing teeth, brushing hair (if it gets tangly/looks crap afterwards, fine, but if it is clean and brushed once a day it doesn't get in a thick dreadlocked matt), and having a shower/bath once every couple of days or so, so be it. I do see that as part of parenting.

If the hair is thickly matted and simply unbrushable (as opposed to just tangled and scruffy), you can't possibly keep on top of nits- you can't apply the lotion properly and you can't use a Nitty Gritty or other combing out method. That is neglectful and horrible for everyone else!

Jeez I can't get over the amount of people who only read the OP and respond to that!

Don't you have that thing where the OP's posts are a different colour and you can see AND READ all their updates before you all steam in giving her a kicking?

OP

I have read them all but even if I had only read the OP I would answer the same way. I would judge too OP. And I don't believe for a second that all nine year olds are capable of caring fully for their own hair, MANY will need help. Trouble is, AIBU is just bursting at the seams with overexcitable arseholes just desperate to take their turn to stick the boot in these days. Then of course there's the usual suspects who without fail will take the opposite point of view no matter how reasonable the OP is.

Apart from the hair thing- are there other signs of abuse. Is the child a healthy weight? Does she seem traumatised in any way?

I have a two year old who goes apoplectic when i go anywhere near her with a brush. Would you suggest physically restraining the child whilst inflicting pain so that the child has neat hair and conforms to your notion of socially acceptable appearance?? Because THAT would be abuse.

Then you can Judge me! My DD is 10 and yesterday because she was going to a party we spent an hour detangling her hair, it resulted in lots of tears and a red and blotchy face - hardly a good look.

Her hair just tangles, no matter what we try, so generally we take the approach of a cursory brush daily and chuck it in a pony tail for school. It HURTS and its not worth the angst of brushing it. It makes difference if we cut the hair shorter although my DD does not want to cut her hair, she sport the stig of the dump look quite well.

If people want to judge me on my dd's hair that is their issue not mine, or hers. My ILs children are all perfectly presented in pristine clothes at all times - but if they come home dirty they get punished - see, i know who i would judge

Balloon slayer i don't have that highlighted OP thing. How can i get it?

My DD constantly looks like she's stuck her fingers in the sockets, yet I'm always brushing her hair. Some people just have that kind of hair!

My daughter hates hers brushed. Literally screams but she doesn't have s choice.

Because how she looks is so much better than how she feels?

My DD screams too - so i stop once it gets to a generally acceptable level.

My child with autism hates having her hair brushed, she also hates having it cut so it's so long she can almost sit on it. Every day I put it in two plaits and there it stays till the next day, it's washer three times a week with a ton of conditioner to make it easier to manage. Fine if you haven't the time or inclination but I don't believe it's impossible to keep on top of.

I have a two year old who goes apoplectic when i go anywhere near her with a brush. Would you suggest physically restraining the child whilst inflicting pain so that the child has neat hair and conforms to your notion of socially acceptable appearance?? Because THAT would be abuse

So, bribe them, put a star chart up, let them play with the brushes in the bath. Do whatever you have to do to start getting the hair brushed, just as you do with all the other things two year olds don't like doing, like wearing reins, getting strapped in in the buggy, sitting in car seats, having their teeth brushed, wearing clothes, taking medicine. One of mine hated wearing shoes- should I have just let her run around without shoes on then in parks with dog mess and potentially glass on the floor?

Lots of kids hate toothbrushes, but not brushing your children's teeth and them falling out as as result would be considered neglect.

If what you are saying is- I don't actually care about hair being brushed, then that's fine. But usually 'I can't ' means 'I don't prioritise' because little children are resistant to lots of things we have to make them do and part of parenting is finding out how to trick/bribe/encourage them to do them!

And brushing isn't just about looking a certain way, if you can't brush your children's hair it gets in a huge mat and when they get nits you literally can't use the products or do the combing needed. I am starting to realise why we have such a huge nit problem in the UK that in other countries they just don't tolerate- in Germany your children get sent home from school and are not allowed to return if nitty- you wouldn't be able to say 'she doesn't like a hairbrush' or 'I can't get near them with the lotion', it would be seen as utterly socially unacceptable not to deal with nits.

OP. I think with all the other issues you raised, it's quite sad that your childhood neglect was never picked up by anyone. I was neglected emotionally as a child, although my hygiene and general care were great, and it has had an ongoing effect right into adulthood. It has left me susceptible to abusive relationships, because my sense of normal behaviour is skewed. I can imagine that your experience has had a massive effect on your self-confidence.

I think that there are obviously children where matted or messy hair is the lesser of two evils, where there might be sensory issues, or they have hair prone to messing, where parents keep them clean and cared for. And I think there are cases where it could point to further neglectful behaviours.

There's nothing wrong with keeping your eye out for children where you have concerns, because it's obvious that neglected children get missed. When you know you aren't being neglectful as a parent, there should be no worry about what anyone might think anyway, if you can reasonably explain something, then most services would accept that even if it was reported.

This was a game changer though. I have six of them, so terrified am I of being without one.

To those saying. ... i can't believe that people don't read the whole thread before commenting!

It's not compulsory. I'm afraid this is what happens when you drip feed info. I'm so sorry OP is struggling with her childhood. But my answer to her original post remains. Having tuggy hair and being shy are NOT necessarily signs of abuse. And i am concerned about the amount of people who are absolutely fine about inflicting pain and distress on small children but then judge others for being abusive because they choose not to.

Nicki I have seven of these, the original ones in different colours and three brushes, one for each of us. They are brilliant. I do remember having my hair brushed as a child and it was painful at times, even cutting out the odd knot, I don't think we used conditioner in those days at all, it was some cheapo shampoo once or twice a week, plus plaited every day for school.

tbf its really annoying to have a drip feed post. Why not just say that it was about you in the original post OP?

I think nowadays it might be more picked up on, but i think when I was a child children were generally scruffier anyway. From the first post you talk about hair, and then on the other post you only mention teeth and everything else. Scruffy hair wouldnt point to neglect for me, but everything else added up might, but not knowing how old you are, even in the 80s, I doubt anyone would have done much about it

I thought the OP was talking about hair in one giant matted mass, not the odd tangle or knot.

Pain and distress- the whole point is that if you wash, condition and brush every day and use a Tangle Teaser, it isn't nearly as painful and distressing as if you leave it and leave it and then need to do something about it, either because your child is embarrassed themselves (allowing your child to be teased for having a huge mat on their head is just appalling) or because they have nits or you need to check if they have nits, which is about twice a term in most of the schools my children have attended (we get the letter about that regularly).

It's like with teeth-brushing, if you do it regularly it, it's a bit of discomfort and annoying for a child who doesn't like it, but it's a heck of a lot less distressing than having teeth pulled out or filled.

It's all about preventing the huge big problem by daily sensible actions, not about causing pain and distress. Go and ask any social worker then if they think hair-brushing or teeth-cleaning with a resistant child is a form of abuse. It's actually the opposite.

I had hair like that (well not quite as bad) until about 9. Vey, very fine hair (white blonde). It was awful, a real painful struggle every morning, tears etc through no lack of trying. This was before the days of spray in detanglers which would have helped. My hair took on a whole new meaning of "bed hair". It really hurt when trying to get the matted mess undone every morning so we did what we could but underneath a matt would remain.

It kind of changed overnight when we invested in a big wide tooth comb (1970's hairbrushes never helped). Once. i'd mastered it things changed.

It's not neglect, it could simply be a really horrible situation for mum and daughter.