To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

[YoJesse]

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

I can't actually reply to your last post undercrackers

You've rendered me speechless and for that you are to be commended really because I regally can talk. A lot.

Really can talk! Not regally! not a Freudian slip, autocorrect i promise

MNHQ have made it extremely clear that disabled people are 'other' and that therefore it's open season to deride and lock them and their caregivers.

Hence why they're all piling in.

I'll keep on fighting the good battle bishop

Is there really any point? After all recounting real life experience to illustrate why issues surround the matter is supposedly 'off topic'!

buship i know, it has really upset me that mn think it is ok
What was the point of the 'my child' do they not matter when they become an adult?

Although atleast they have now deleted some of the offensive ones except they have deleted other ones that ahould not have been.

Quite.
Disabled parents are still parents.
Disabled children are still children.

Yet it's ok to actively make their lives much more difficult on here.

The issue is though that its too ambigious. Its a priority seat, not a disabled seat. I would read that as being for someone less able to stand, as per the pictures on the seat itself. That for me means that a physically impared person, pregnant woman, or a small child (including a 3 year old) would have priority over an able bodied or disabled person who is able to stand. There seem to be a lot of posters who believe they should have the right to a priority seat due to medical conditions not classed as disabilities ie Crohns, arthritis, I have no idea if this makes them a valid candidate for a seat. Very hard to judge. Perhaps the cards would make it a lot easier.

Please don't take offence where none is intended.

I think priority seats don't work on overcrowded busses in the same way that first class does not work on overcrowded trains.
People get fed up looking at empty seats and say 'sod that'

Rheumatoid arthritis is very much a disability. Look it up.

It's not just aches and pains!

What about sensory impairments?
I'm not in a wheelchair. Infinitude a crutch. Is it ok if unused one?

It's fine to sittings priority seat if it's empty. Just get up is a person asks for help!!!!!!!
Common sense people! It's free!!!!

*use a crutch, snd i use one?

That takes right back to the hidden disability issue again. Don't assume. If a person asks for help, Help, not Confront

Er yes arthritus is one.
One of mine is fibromyilogia. I have pain in most of my joints but qlso inflammation in both knees and shoulders. I can't stand for long and i'm very unsteady due to pain amd medication.
My chronic headaches snd migraines also make me unsteady as i go extremely dizzy.

BTW it's not fine to park in an empty disabled bay, to think sod it, I'm just nipping to the cash machine/dropping someone off/posting a letter.

Just in case you might think that.

I suffer vertigo and standing on a moving bus would be hell for me, however I would absolutely give up my seat for a mother or father with a young child. Toddlers are unsafe on their feet as it is (hence why they're called toddlers) but put them on a moving bus where most adults require two arms to remain standing, and have a parent hold on with one hand, probably have bags to hang on to and hold a toddler with the other hand and this then becomes unsafe.

Imagine, the bus stops abruptly, and the 16 stone able bodied man who was standing behind, and who'd just taken his hand off the rail to scratch his nose, loses his balance and falls on top of the toddler. An able bodied adult might have been caused to fall themselves if someone falls into them but the damage would not be as great as that caused to a child. If the toddler was in a seat he'd be much safer.

I agree with the OP about his choice being the wrong one. The toddler needed the seat. My 7yo would have the ability to hold on whilst standing, but a toddling 3yo wouldn't. I would expect my children to give up their seat for any adult able bodied or not, the same as I was taught, but not at 3yo.

However I believe the OP has recognised how difficult it is to ask for a seat, which is exactly how the man would have felt. He had to ask for the seat. If OP then wanted a seat for her child she would've had to have asked herself. Which is clearly something that is very difficult.

So, whilst I understand exactly how you feel, OP, I'm sure you now realise exactly how he felt in having to ask for the seat.

But yes, asking a toddler to stand was probably not the best choice, but this man has probably encountered a lot of discriminatory comments in his time on public transport, and probably felt that a woman with a child would be least likely to verbally abuse him.

So I agree with both the OP, and the man.

It is not acceptable for the man to demand the seat rudely, disability doesn't mean you are exempt from manners, and sadly he is not "entitled" to a seat - morally yes but in a practical sense everyone could say no and it's unlikely it would be enforced. Even those with priority passes are warned they are not guaranteed a seat and wheelchair users have been denied entry due to pushchair owners refusing to fold up/get off. And a three year old isn't the first person to approach if there are other seats taken by older kids/adults appearing able bodied. Although I agree OP lost the right to say anything once she'd moved her child. I'd back her if she had apologised for being unable to offer the seat from the off- I have a just turned four yr old who wouldn't be safe to stand if I was also standing.

I find standing on buses, or just standing anywhere really, extremely painful. Life is much more limited and difficult now and I am generally always severely pissed off with the world as a result, but I would only ask for a seat politely and never resulting in a small child having to stand, I'd rather sit on the floor and have done. I know I'm not actually entitled and I do think badges (baby on board style) or passes would help - I found getting a seat during pregnancy wasn't an issue mostly, just standing on one train journey out of many. People were helpful when they had a clear signal without needing to be asked.

It would be great if people with invisible disabilities felt able to ask for a seat and people were quick to offer when able. It shouldn't be acceptable for people to feel too scared to ask, like me, nor for someone to order a small child to stand, like the man in the OP. A culture change in how we treat others and consider disibility is needed. Neither side in the OP is right. In the meantime I will consider using the walking stick or wearing a badge to gain the consideration of others as I look too young and healthy to be disabled. A

A person with a disability is entitled to a seat, actually. In the 'priority' seats. Unless they are already full of people with disabilities.

Those seats are closest to the doors because disabled people who have mobility problems, and the elderly, usually find it difficult and painful to navigate the aisle.

This is not true of healthy young children.

If you don't want your young child to stand, move down the aisle and hope someone is kind enough to offer you a seat.

The picture above the seats shows a baby being carried for a reason.

I actually don't agree that priority seats are for able-bodied 3-year-olds.

wheelchair users have been denied entry due to pushchair owners refusing to fold up/get of

They shouldn't be given a choice in the matter. Wheelchairs should get priority. Full stop, end of conversation. It's shameful that some parents would refuse to allow a disabled person use a space intended for them which only exists because of a hell of a lot of fighting by disability rights activists.

(Obviously the above does not apply to disabled parents or parents with disabled children where trying to collapse a pram wouldn't be possible)

EveryoneElsie you are willfully misunderstanding my posts about the pass. I said they do exist on some networks - I know that, I am not making it up. I have never once said anyone "should" carry a pass, simply that they are an option and some might find them helpful, to avoid confrontation. They are not only for disabled people, the Southeastern website states very clearly that:

"Our new Priority Seating cards have been designed to help passengers who require a priority seat, some of which may have a need that is not visible, to do so more discreetly and without the need to explain.

If you are over 65, pregnant, have a child under 3 or are disabled, you can apply for a card."

www.southeasternrailway.co.uk/your-journey/assisted-travel/priority-seating/

I don't know exactly what all the deleted posts said but there were some aggressive and extreme posts - its an emotive issue and getting frustrated posting about it is understandable, but some are lashing out at all and sundry and some are saying things which are not universally true ... I suspect that MN has deleted based on aggressive tone and personal insults not on whether the poster is disabled or not, which surely is fair??

Someone did this to my cousin who had end stage cancer and was really suffering
You cannot tell if someone cannot walk far and is very unwell just by looking at them!

Red, why would you 'expect [your] children to give up their seat for any adult able bodied or not'? That smacks to me of a very old-fashioned and unhelpful view that adults are more important than children and to be deferred to by them. (Unhelpful because it aids and abets adults who are inclined to abuse their power).

I expect my children to give up seats for those less able to stand than they are - but I give up mine first.

I've found that people tend to offer my children seats on the bus/tube etc.

How do you know who is less able to stand?

I'd imagine there are quite a few adults who look able bodied who are far less able to stand than a healthy child.

The problem is that 'less able to stand' is a bit of a 'how long is a piece of string?' concept. 'Less able' than whom? Less able than every other person who's currently sitting? How on earth do you even assess that?

There are always going to be some 'more worthy' people sitting while others stand. It's unavoidable.

I understand the priority seats as being strictly for (mobility-impaired) disabled, elderly and pregnant.

Everyone else can also give up seats for each other in the 'main body' of the bus, which would be nice.