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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

To 'confront' this man when he asked for the priority seat on the bus

622 replies

YoJesse · 02/04/2016 14:43

Me and Ds 3 were on a really packed bus, no seats left at all. I was standing and Ds was on one of the priority seats. The other 7 priority seats were taken up with what looked like young able bodied people and on Dad with a baby.

A man 50ish gets on, walks past all the other seats and says to me 'I'm disabled, can you move your son?' I got Ds up without questioning it but then I heard the Dad with the baby say to the man 'fucking hell, seriously mate?' This got me thinking that maybe it was a bit unfair so I tapped him on the shoulder and said 'as you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should of asked them not my son?' He then goes off on one say ' I'm disabled, your son should be sitting in here in the first place etc' so I said that he is less able to stand on a moving bus than most other people so maybe he is entitled to the seat. The man got all sweaty and angry and I felt really uncomfortable so I got off.

Was I unreasonable to confront him?

OP posts:
Schwabischeweihnachtskanne · 05/04/2016 17:47

Human decency and manners combined would be the parent taking the child onto their lap, if they were small enough and there were a shortage of seats and nobody with priority in need of a seat of course - but the child should not be told by their seated parent to stand.

Schwabischeweihnachtskanne · 05/04/2016 18:00

Nell I think the moral high ground would be that the child gives way to the disabled person, but the seats are not labelled that way (the ones I can ever remember seeing). I think the difference between following the rules, and the spirit of the rules...

"There is a whole other question around whether a child of the same age, seated on an adult's lap, would be expected to give up their seat to a disabled person. I suspect not. I'm sometimes mindful of this when travelling with DS - instinctively I'd usually be happier to stand and let him sit alone, if the bus/train gets busier during our journey, than to take him onto my lap; but somehow that seems like the incorrect solution, etiquette-wise."

^

I also find this etiquette illogical and twisted - if the presumably young, healthy OP had been seated with her son on her knee she would have been considered by some entitled to remain seated, but as her son was sitting on the seat alone he absolutely unequivocally had to be instantly moved (at the start of the thread this was very much the prevailing attitude) yet in both cases there would have been people without disabilities in the priority seat... I do absolutely recognise that they would have been taking up a smaller space overall in the bus, which might have been better for the bus passengers en mass, but that was irrelevant to the man needing the seat. If the OP had reported that her reaction to being asked to move her son was to lift him up and plonk herself on the seat and put him on her lap she would have been slated :o and nobody would do that in a million years. It would clearly fall into the Brass Neck category. Yet the end result would have been the same as the more acceptable situation in which her son had been on her lap the whole time...

People should do things that make sense and are decent, not blindly do what their parents did because Manners or because It Never Did Me any Harm, or because it allows them to use that very special stealth parenting boast masquerading as self depreciation "maybe I'm old fashioned" Hmm

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 18:11

Yes I see the point between the child sitting alone and the child sitting on a lap.
I think I would think two things about the child on a lap. One, the child is too young to be unattended and the parent is acting as a restraint/safety harness, or two, the parent may have a disability themselves which is why they are seated and child is sitting on lap so parent can see where they are.

As a person who uses a long cane to get about I do receive offers of help from well meaning strangers. I think it is lovely. If it's not necessary I say "thank you, I'm ok but I appreciate you offering". Everyone's happy.

NellWilsonsWhiteHair · 05/04/2016 18:27

Isn't that so completely weird? FWIW though, I assumed the PP who mentioned having her child give up his seat was already standing herself... I think it's a perfectly nice gesture if she was (again, introduces the 'what age is vulnerable?' question at the other end of the spectrum, doesn't it? Is '60ish' old enough to be vulnerable enough to need a seat given up for?) but I agree, I don't like the logic if not.

In very broad brush stroke terms, I think there's really a continuum of 'needing' a seat on public transport. At one end there's disabled people who have every right to expect that a seat is made available to them. At the other end are strapping young people like me Grin who can be expected to stand and hold on and get buffeted about by people moving past. IMO, my 3yo is in the same category as eg my mother in her 50s - not quite as robust as I am, but definitely sturdier and better placed to stand than most. I'd only expect him to give up his seat if there was specific need for him to do so (someone who really needed the seat, not someone able-bodied but adult and therefore Respect), but I'd really never ever expect anyone else to give up their seat for him and would be outwardly grateful but privately Hmm if they did.

I'm in London and my vague recollection is that the seats are 'for those less able to stand', with a picture showing a person with a walking stick, a person holding a small child, and a pregnant person. That's an unhelpfully vague expression, and from this thread it also sounds like rules/expectations vary regionally, which also adds confusion.

None of which means there is any scenario where the OP harassing the disabled man after the fact would be OK, btw! I'm just interested in the other stuff around this.

Hamstar19 · 05/04/2016 18:42

I am disabled I also have two children and use the bus a lot.

I think both you and the disabled man were unreasonable.

I wouldn't have asked a small child to move and if some asked the question you did I would have answered as civilly as possible because getting angry at you isn't going to warm you to offering a sit in the future.

It I was you I would have asked one of the other people to stand for this man not my child. If I did move I would have let it go.

I'm also disappointed in the other pad singers. When I was pregnant a mother with a small child sitting on her lap offered to stand up for me in facets insisted on it. This did force a healthy young man to offer the mother his seat. But neither did the other passengers offer help.

Very poor show from everyone on that bus.

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 19:54

kali110 you were right.

MNHQ
YetAnotherHelenMumsnet · 05/04/2016 19:57

Good evening everyone,
We have had this thread reported many many times and have made a number of deletions. Peace and love and let's keep to the subject at hand, folks.

FreeSpirit89 · 05/04/2016 20:00

Yanbu - being old or disabled doesn't give you a licence to be rude. Your point was valid, but you could of also said no. Ds is unsteady on his feet and you'd rather he remained seated.

Perhaps he didn't want to ask one of the others because you looked least threatening.

AugustaFinkNottle · 05/04/2016 20:52

FreeSpirit, he wasn't rude till OP went for him. I think at that point he probably was entitled to defend himself as he did.

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 21:01

I agree with Augusta

He asked for assistance.

hownottofuckup · 05/04/2016 21:02

I do think it's odd given what you've described, that off all the people he asked to vacate for him he asked your son. Maybe he was least intimidated by you, who knows. You'd hope one of the other adults, assuming no hidden disabilities, would have given your son a seat.
All in all, you weren't rude or aggressive, you gave up your son's seat and politely pointed out that in future a toddler may not be the most obvious choice to move after all.
I don't think you did anything wrong, so don't sweat it.

Samcro · 05/04/2016 22:17

BRILLIANT well don again mn hq delete people for defending the rights of disabled people.

kali110 · 05/04/2016 22:22

seriously mnet?
am absolutely disgusted with you.
For a site that says it supports disabilities?
You have gone downhill in the last year.
It is now acceptable go laugh about animal abuse and disabilities.
I have had it.
Clearly you do not like Disabled people sticking up for themselves, even when they stick to the rules!

Samcro · 05/04/2016 22:24

they can delete me all they like. I stand by everything I said, I think its a shame when the GF win.

AugustaFinkNottle · 05/04/2016 22:26

and politely pointed out that in future a toddler may not be the most obvious choice to move after all.

But OP didn't do that. She waited till someone else had already been rude to him, then tapped him on the shoulder and said, according to her, "As you can see I'm happy to give up the seat for you but as you can see there are lots of young, able looking people on the other priority seats, don't you think you should have asked them not my son?" That's not pointing something out, it's deliberately confronting him and telling he was in the wrong. If she was that bothered, she could have asked one of the "young, able looking people" herself, but she chose to go for the disabled man instead. hownot, do you seriously see nothing wrong with that?

UnderCrackers5 · 05/04/2016 22:26

If he OP could not tell by looking that the gent was disabled, how could the gent tell, by looking, that the child was not disabled ?

YANBU. The gent was behaving like an idiot

AugustaFinkNottle · 05/04/2016 22:31

Undercrackers, if the child had been disabled, OP would have said so. Your point is utterly irrelevant. He needed a seat, he was fully entitled to ask for one. I don't think he's the one who has been behaving like an idiot.

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 22:34

sam and kal'i think where we mightbhavevwuited someone's else's post urban to be deleted?
Neither of you said anything offensive, it was in response to other comments.
I will still be here to address any lack of knowledge about the impact of disability on day to day life.

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 22:34
  • might have quoted
Samcro · 05/04/2016 22:35

yep but the goady one will think "oh look they were deleted they are bad"

hownottofuckup · 05/04/2016 22:39

August no I don't. Asking someone to consider something doesn't seem rude or aggressive to me.

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 22:40

Hi undercrackers

If the child had been disabled, the OP could have replied, "no my child needs this seat, but let me help you get another seat". Or even if she felt her non disabled child needed it due to his age she could have said that.

The disabled man was asking for assistance.

Help, not confront.

LaurieMarlow · 05/04/2016 22:41

Hamstar that's the most sensible post ive read on this thread.

and it's not like it's short of posts

UnderCrackers5 · 05/04/2016 22:42

nope. the gent did not ask if the child was disabled. he demanded a move

unacceptable

candykane25 · 05/04/2016 22:44

sam I know. I think the rest of the thread shows the full tale and it's important that we know we have challenged the lack of knowledge about the impact of disability on life that other posters don't understand. And will continue to do so.
Bishop said some lovely things about you.

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