To not let dd wear swimming trunks?

[Speckledpeckle]

Just that really Dd is 5. Embraces all things typically thought of as "boy" strongly rejects anything remotely girly. Now wants to wear swimming trunks when we go swimming.. I embrace all the requests for spiderman shirts, darth Vader outfits etc. Right down to her underpants. However wearing swimming trunks feels a step to far.. I can't really articulate why.. Dh is on the fence doesn't really feel it's appropriate but probably wouldn't be too bothered. I have told her no, she is a girl and they wear swimming costumes! Now feeling like a right mean mummy as she says she no longer wants to go swimming then! Aibu?

hi OP
my DD is 7 and we have had very similar discussions. I have found exactly the same thing, that once I agree, we can never go back. DD wears boys clothes almost all the time including checked shirts and trousers to party. she has a very short haircut and most of the time people think she is a boy. I have however, insisted on some things, notably, knickers not pants - she likes the plain boxer style ones, girls school shoes (lace ups), girls school trousers not boys school trousers and swimming costume when in a pool, apart from on holiday/ in paddling pool, when she can wear trunks. our compromise is having a costume without frilly bits or pink or girly designs - a blue Slazenger works well. DD has asked to be a boy on several occasions and I have explained that when she is older, if she still thinks this, she can consider this decision for herself, but explained that girls can do anything that boys can't (apart from earn massive salaries for football) and boys can't have babies.personally I would go against others and get her a costume for swimming lessons, allow a top and trunks for holidays / paddling pool, as like you say, you can't go back and may have problems later when she starts to develop.

Well yes but there is a big difference between a bit of a tomboy who likes to play boy games, prefers spider man t shirts but inside very much identifies as female and a child who is physically female but is completely male in their head. I used to enjoy playing with boys in the play ground, loved transformer toys and didn't 'get' the girls as much some of the time but I was very much a girl. If she is in essence male then she will already be male, she will have been male since early pregnancy it's just when the chemical released to give her a male body were released something caused a block and she got girl bits. It's not usual for girls to like some things marketed at boys but the fact she doesn't want to wear a swim top is quite unusual. Despite the fact at 5 you have absolutely nothing up top to hide, something in us even at that young age makes us gender aware and we conform to certain dress standards, because in our little heads we had breasts ( even though we didn't) . That she doesn't think about this makes me wonder if there is more to this than just a taste in clothes. If so it will come out in the wash and I'm sure there is lots of available help to allow her to carve her own path.

holy shit

I confess I'm shocked at these schools where all the girls walk out hand in hand and the girls aren't permitted to play with the boys, OP may want to move schools as real life, real kids, don't resemble this scenario at all.

She has no breasts. Why can't she wear trunks? I'll tell you why because society sexualises girls from the off. Making it somehow "rude" for little ones to show their nipples.

Let her have trunks. She's nothing to show.

OP, I was a tomboy, and scream at my mum that I didn't want girl things or do girly stuff. I stopped wearing anything girly about the age of five, played with boys and some girls, but mainly boys toys and traditionally boys activities. I despised anything girly.

It wasn't until late teens I started wearing some girls sort of stuff.

I'm still pretty much tomboy, but I am a woman. Because that's what my body is.
I've have two wondful DC and a loving dh.

I think you should chill out and let her be, let her be happy with her choices.

Please don't utter things about being a boy stuck in a girls body. It would only confuse her. I know that if someone had started telling or asking me if I was really a boy, I'd have probably have said yes.

If by late teens she's not happy and is gender diaphoretic. Then cross that bridge when you come to it.

Let everybody around her and herself accept her for who she is.

Okay, I only read the first page of the thread ... are you serious? She's five!

If it helps, my parents never even offered me a swimsuit when I was five. I wore the same swimwear as my brother, and I started to cover my breasts when they, you know, actually started to grow.

I did not grow up to become a boy. In fact, I became a radical feminist, and am about as far from being transgender as one can be.

Have you ever considered the danger that your daughter might consider herself male exactly because as a girl, she cannot wear sensible clothes?

Removing a one-piece swimsuit to go to the toilet is rather difficult for a child. Forcing your daughter to do that will teach her at an early age that to be a girl is to suffer. Do you want her to learn that?
Do you want her to hate her female sex?

If it makes you feel more comfortable, maybe you can compromise on a bikini bottom with no top, though I have to say I consider bikinis for girls of that age a perversion and would not, personally, contribute to their continued existence.

I think there are quite a lot of young girls out there who prefer boys' clothes and toys. My own dd was insistent she was a boy from the age of 3 for about a year. She has only just stopped wearing boy's trousers for school at age 11. Her best friend was a boy until fairly recently too. She's just got herself a pixie cut (which looks fab) whilst all the other girls have very long hair. She is very aware of feminism too. She is so very much her own person and I'm very proud of her..

I want her to fit in, I don't want her to be teased. She hardly has any friends. Desperate to play with the boys but they don't want to know.

Wearing a girlsuit will not achieve what you want, and you know that.

Making her wear a girlsuit just put you at odds with her. Even if you think its a battle you can win, the price will be high, and for what?

She will likely change as she grows simply because people do. If she doesn't change toward girliness it really won't be because you let her show her nipples at a swimming pool when she was 5.

Really it would be forcing her to "grow up" as a pubescent teen when she is only a very small child.

I'm 36 and I'd prefer to wear boardies (trunks) and a rashie. Practical and comfortable.

Wearing a Disney dress doesn't make her a princess. Wearing swimming shorts doesn't make her a boy.
It's clothing, not a declaration.

Sistersweet thanks so much for your post - I found it really helpful and you really seems to understand where I'm coming from.

To answer a few questions Dd has long hair because she wants to and has never expressed a desire to get it cut short..

I wasn't really overly worried that she may be transgender/lesbian etc. As I think those kind of choices seem a long way off. I'm more concerned that she is isolating herself, trying to be something she isn't and carving out a very difficult path for herself. Other kids can be mean, they pick on differences and dd is different. Noticibly so. It makes it hard for me to make the right choices for her because at 5 she can't really consider the consequences of being the only girl dressed as spiderman on own clothes day or whatever. I want to protect her. And I want to make her happy.

She has never said she wants to be a boy but repeatedly has said she wants to dress the same as them, play with only boys.. If you handed her two identical toys and told her one was for girls and one for boys and asked her to choose she would pick the "boy" one. Simply because it is for boys.

I have spoken to school about her friendships and they are going to work on that after the Easter holidays. I wasn't aware dd's school was so different than many others but yes it does seem quite gender divided - the girls play with girls and the boys with boys (mainly).

Apologise for not reading the full thread but it sounds like the opposite of a dad not liking his son to play with dolls. Your daughter just happens to prefer clothes aimed at boys at the moment. She may well change her opinion as she gets older, also she may not. Would you judge a little boy who likes to put on a fairy dress? Whatever she chooses to dress in or you force her to wear is not going to change who she is. Don't let the thought of other people's reactions influence you. Let her be comfortable in what she chooses.

i'm glad the school are going to work on her friendships. Would you dd possibly be happiest making her own clothing choices, despite the risks of being different? I gave my dd the word 'tomboy' to use from when she was a very young age so she could explain to those who questioned her choices that she was a girl who liked boy things. It seemed to satisfy everyone who asked.

How can a 5 year old be trying to be something they're not? At 5? I genuinely don't understand all the angst around this. It's a small, insignificant choice about an item of clothing - why does it need so much analysis?

Do you genuinely believe that some toys/clothes/activities are only appropriate for boys and others only appropriate for girls?

SpeakNoWords obviously I know clothes are for everyone, toys are for everyone etc. But most 5 year olds are a marketing dream. They buy into the princesses for girls/superheroes for boys totally. Dd has fixed ideas about what is for boys and what is for girls. She chooses what she perceives to be for boys On the very basis that it is for boys. I have repeatedly told her that it is just stuff and it is for everyone. But unfortunately the words of mummy do not outdo the power of advertising nor the 40 other 5 year olds that she spends 5 days a week with.

To add to that Dd knows she is a girl. She chooses to dress/play with everything she associates as "boy" therefore trying to be something she is not.

Right, why is being a girl who likes things that are often liked by boys, "trying to be something she's not"? She's a girl who likes things that are different to what a lot of other children would choose. So what?

I can see you are terrified of her being socially isolated and rejected by her peers. But this is clearly an issue that the school is not addressing if your DD is being excluded and bullied for being a bit different. It needs to be challenged, but telling your DD that her choices are wrong is not the way to do this.

And if stuff is for everyone, irrespective of gender, then why freak out when she listens to you and chooses something that you consider to be out of the acceptable gender norm (based on the marketing she is exposed to and her peers opinions)?

Well this is really the first time I have "freaked out" and actually said no, that's not really appropriate. And maybe that's because some stuff just isn't for everyone. Trunks are made for boys. Swimming costumes are made for girls. Rightly or wrongly that's just how the world is. A man in a bikini at the swimming pool is going to get stared at no? Maybe I'm doing her a disservice to not show her that actually there are some differences out there in the real world?

Honestly OP, even if you forced your dd into girly clothes and toys she wouldn't suddenly become best friends with all the other girls, she'd just be uncomfortable and learn that who she is and what she likes is something to be ashamed of. Swimming trunks won't make her a pariah, and she can already cope with other children questioning her clothes. Knowing her mum will support her whatever will long outlast her love of Spiderman.

I don't think at 5 years old, this needs to be the place where you decide to take a stand tbh. It's such a tiny insignificant choice to make. Many girls wear shorts and rash vests, it is not an extreme choice that places her miles to the opposite end of the gender-expression range from where you want her to be.

My feeling on it is that there's more than enough time when she's older to constrain her choices because of conforming to the gender role expected of her. Don't start it so young when it doesn't need to be any kind of issue at all.

As much as we say 'embrace her difference', none of us want to be the parent of the child who is different or stands out. My DD was somewhat of a tomboy but full of confidence, now at 15 a right girly and still as sure of herself but my 11 year old ds2 is a sensitive lad and I worry constantly how he'll cope in secondary school as he has no confidence in his self and fight back. Whatever you decide to do, just don't knock that inner confidence in herself because that is what will make her life.

What really stood out to me is that she feels so strongly about this that she would stop swimming rather than wear a girls swimming costume. This is something she feels really strongly about.

I would aim for the girls full top and shorts sets, then go to actual boys shorts and a rash top. If she still isn't happy then I would just let her wear the shorts. I would try the other approaches first as she may not be aware of them and may be perfectly happy with them, especially if you get a spiderman set

My 2.5 year old grew out of her happy nappy things (neoprene) Tried a swimming costume but she didn't like the material on her top half. Tried to get her replacement shorts but Struggled to find anything that wasn't a bikini type thing. Now she wears bottom half of shorts rash vest combo only. Looks cute. Doesn't impede her. I think it's a boys set but I couldn't care less. Much preferable to some weird high cut heart covered bikini.

Dd has fixed ideas about what is for boys and what is for girls. She chooses what she perceives to be for boys On the very basis that it is for boys

This is different to just choosing stuff because you like them - so a boy choosing a sparkly princess dress because it is a girls thing rather than because he likes the sparkly fabric and how it swishes.

I would be a little concerned (or perhaps curious is a better word) as to why she is deliberately rejecting girl things and try to work out why she seems to hate "girl" so much. There's nothing wrong with wearing boy stuff or playing with bit stuff but the apparent disdain for girl things just because they are labelled "girl" is a little odd. I think I'd want to be sure she didn't see girls as inferior.

I was a tomboy. I still am. I never chose stuff just because they were boy things though. So, I played with Sindy dolls but I cut their hair short and dressed them in Action Man clothing for example.

However, she's 5. Reasoning with her about stuff being stuff isn't going to work