To not let dd wear swimming trunks?

[Speckledpeckle]

Just that really Dd is 5. Embraces all things typically thought of as "boy" strongly rejects anything remotely girly. Now wants to wear swimming trunks when we go swimming.. I embrace all the requests for spiderman shirts, darth Vader outfits etc. Right down to her underpants. However wearing swimming trunks feels a step to far.. I can't really articulate why.. Dh is on the fence doesn't really feel it's appropriate but probably wouldn't be too bothered. I have told her no, she is a girl and they wear swimming costumes! Now feeling like a right mean mummy as she says she no longer wants to go swimming then! Aibu?

Sorry OP but I have to take issue with Phalenopsisgirl on this:

If she is in essence male then she will already be male, she will have been male since early pregnancy it's just when the chemical released to give her a male body were released something caused a block and she got girl bits.

This is transgender cult speak and betrays a truly strartling ignorance of biology.

She has girl bits because she (almost certainly) has XX chromosomes, nothing to do with chemicals being blocked. There is a condition called Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome where an individual has XY chromosomes but doesn't respond to the male hormones and develops as a female, but people in this (very rare) case mostly still identify as female and do not think of themselves as "in essence male".

I recently read about someone in this situation who is now the mother of twins, as her doctors found she had a nascent womb inside her which they managed to develop with hormones to the point of her being able to carry a pregnancy to term.

The chances of OP's DD having this syndrome are very, very slight and even if she had it it would not make her "in essence male" - what does that even mean? Is there a male or a female essence that isn't tied to the physical body? Isn't male or female just about biology, about your reproductive capacity?

As far as I'm aware there is absolutely no properly tested, rigorous scientific evidence that there is such a thing as a male brain or a female brain. In nature there is just different biology; society encourages different socialisation for girls and boys but this idea that gender is inherent and independent of biological sex is a very, very dangerous one; and the existence of a tiny number of intersex people has nothing to do with the current insistence that (non intersex) transgender people actually are the sex they want to identify with.

All those quoting stories of wanting to be boys as little girls - the amount of pressure that would be put on you or your friends nowadays to identity as transgender is truly frightening, and amounts to child abuse in my book, in terms of forcing children to make a choice they don't have the maturity to understand - especially as we don't yet know the long term effects of the puberty blockers some of them are being encouraged to take.

My daughter wears a boys sun suit- although it's because the girls were all pink and pathetic looking and the boys were orange and green and blue :)

My DD has just turned 8 and she is like the OP's DD in that she wears trousers to school, underpants instead of girls' pants etc. She wears a swimsuit for school swimming because they know she's a girl, she insists that it's plain with no flowers or pink bits. On holiday she wears boys' swim shorts and I guess that most people assume that she is a boy. I suppose that by the time she grows boobs either she will want to wear a swimsuit or I will strongly suggest that she does, but I haven't really thought that far ahead.

Sorry OP for the derail - to come back to your dilemma, yes, as you say just buy her the bloody trunks! She's only 5, she's got nothing to cover up. I think it's interesting that you say: It makes me worry I've been a shit female role model or something. Would it be worth trying to look at those feelings a bit more? Do you think you yourself may have some hidden issues around your "femininity"/fitness as a woman? God knows, probably most of us do in this society that makes it so hard to be a woman in a lot of ways! Could she be somehow picking up on that if so?

I think your biggest concern is definitely what's going on at school, and maybe it's nothing to do with her wanting to be a boy but other issues. Bear in mind that the situation at your DD's school is by no means universal - at my son's school the girls and boys still mix a lot and play together: my DS has two best friends, one of whom is a girl and he plays with her every day - and he's 8, so in juniors; a boy's party he went to recently was 15 boys, 5 girls, so again not the rigid delineation around sex.

I'm sorry to hear it's so different at your DD's school, and it must be very painful for you seeing her left out so I can understand your wanting her to fit in any way she can - but I agree with pp's that you need to talk to her teacher to get a more rounded picture of what's going on, and address the issue of her problems socialising in general rather than this specifically.

OP you might be interested in this blog raisingmyrainbow.com/ It's written by a mother discussing the choices she makes while parenting her youngest son who likes things that girls more commonly like.

I really don't think it matters at this age. My dd is 4 and is always nicking her big brothers clothes. She still insists she's the princess of unicorns.

TalkingintheDark
Agree with you so much.
I think that nowadays if I acted the way I did, and said the things I did when I was 10 someone would be telling me I must be a boy trapped in a girl's body, when actually I just liked things that girls were not supposed the like. Scary thought.

This jumping to the conclusion that girls who like 'boy' things need to be boys (or the other way around) just reinforces outdated stereotypes

Wouldn't bother me at all. It's not as though 5yr olds have anything to cover up.

A quick search on Amazon found me a Spider-Man one piece costume for girls. Wasn't that hard.

Smartstar Women's Sexy Slimming Swimsuit One Piece Swimming Costume Beachwear Swimwear Free Size,Spider-Man Design www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00ZR558NC/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_H7T.wb623665C

Or just get her a two piece shorts and shirt set. Really don't see the big deal here and they are so easy to find.

Swim 2pc Inf00 Navy 5-6 Yrs www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B00QGLHQSQ/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_awd_g9T.wbXGP2H6Y

Just saw the first one is for women rather than girls but the second one is valid

Yeah give a five year old a "Sexy Spiderman" swimsuit, cos thats appropriate

Meh. No boobs, no need to cover IMHO. Just get her the trunks.

I'm sorry she's having such trouble at school though, I can see why that is making you so anxious about this :( BUT as a PP said you may well be putting too much emphasis (in your worries) about the liking-'boy'-stuff issue.

If she can be who she is and like what she likes without giving a shit what other people think, maybe that's better in the long run.

Rinoa realised her gaffe and retracted Sylvia, no need to be a bitch.

OP, just buy the damn shorts. Life is too short to make a child cry for the sake of clothes.

Utterly irrelevant to the thread but I just got really confused as I thought PG said "Rinoa released her giraffe"

But it does matter to the OP though.

I totally get it.

FWIW, my DD will only wear black swimming costumes, like those worn by Olympic swimmers.

But I was very firm about no school trousers, girl pants etc, but go with the flow re other clothes. DD lives in jeans/track suits. Does it matter? Would it matter if DS insisted on wearing a swimming costume? Not to anyone thank heavens but me.

I'If she's happy with a rash vest then fine, I would see that as a compromise. A bit like if she wanted to wear a bikini bra style top. I would say no, but find a compromise of a frilly swimming costume.

OP she's 5.

There aren't girls things and boys things - there are just things.

My DD (5) loves Spider-Man too - has done for years. Currently in bed in avengers pants, shark socks and a Spider-Man onesie in her blue bedroom.

I suspect she's picking up on your confusion and discomfort and it's making her feel her choices are wrong.

Just go with it. She will be fine.

I recall the "Raising my Rainbow" mother being mentioned on here before and getting stick about being a bit trying too hard about her son in dresses. Reading her a couple of years on she now seems very sensible. She's saying my son is a boy - a boy who likes dresses and sparkly things and Barbies- but still a boy.

Maybe I've just not noticed them but where have all the "my son wants an Elsa dress - is that ok?" threads gone.

The answers were 99% yes, let him wear what he likes with the odd poster saying they would never let a boy wear a dress. Would the answers now be - "oh your child must be a transgender girl , not a boy"

How about swim trunks and a rash vest? I have a pair of nice girly swim shirts and a rash best I use for 'active' water things like snorkelling, surfing, water parks, kayacking in hot places etc.

I liked boy style clothes as a child. I didn't want to be a boy. Whilst I'm sill very happy to slob on baggy jeans and a hoody, I also like to dress up and be feminine. Don't sweat it. Life is too short.

www.next.co.uk/shop/gender-olderboys-gender-youngerboys-productaffiliation-swimwear-0#1_1827

^ There's a couple of Spider-Man and Captain America's swim suits that I'd buy for myself if they did them in adult woman sizing!

Not wanting to wear a swim top at 5 is entirely normal, ime, and I don't know why Phalenopsisgirl would think it isn't. DD wore the bottom half only of bikini sets or sun suits until she got self conscious about herself (she suffers from a hormonal condition that means she's had breast buds since birth) , which wasn't until she was nearly 8. She's very much a girl, albeit a non gender-sterotype conforming one. At the age of 11 she's starting to get interested in the more "girly" stuff. But it's only stuff, at the end of the day, and she's only 5. If children in her class are so bound by stereotypes that they're shunning her at that age (and I do find it hard to believe that that's the reason, most children of that age are fairly accepting and easy going) I'd be having words with the teacher, but otherwise I really wouldn't make an issue of it, OP.

OP I get you completely. I've been exactly where you are which I don't think most of the posters on here have been. It is very very hard when your daughter wants boy things. Of course, in theory, it's easy to say, just get it for her, but when the preferences already single your child out a being different then you find yourself questioning everything they ask to do.

We went with compromise and personally I feel that we made the right decisions. We agreed with DD on a short bob rather than cropped hair and "boy shorts" rather then boys underwear. When it came to swimwear we went for rash vests and shorts. I just couldn't and wouldn't let her wear boy swimming trunks. I know it should have been an easy decision to say yes but we just felt that it wasn't the right thing to do - for us. She was already different, did we need to make her even more different?

She's 10 now and not girlie but has changed massively. She's still a trackie and hoody girl who far prefers a game of football to a beauty session but she isn't interested in "boy things" at all anymore, smelly rubbers and youtubers feature quite heavily in her interests even though she's still really friendly with boys.

I should add, that at no time did I ever think she was transgender and she always described herself as a girl who likes boy things rather than wanting to be a boy.

I'm sure many on here will disagree with our approach but I do feel it was the right one and it was a period of time we did find very hard. It was a balance between giving DD what she wanted and not isolating her further than she was.

"typical girly" is almost always designed around women being decorative. Why can't she just be like a boy and enjoy the characters she likes and imagine herself as a Super Hero? WHy do we tell girls they have to wear skimpy swimming costumes when they want to wear shorts?

Wouldn't it be weird if all things were up for grab and we could pick what we liked, because we liked them.