To not let dd wear swimming trunks?

[Speckledpeckle]

Just that really Dd is 5. Embraces all things typically thought of as "boy" strongly rejects anything remotely girly. Now wants to wear swimming trunks when we go swimming.. I embrace all the requests for spiderman shirts, darth Vader outfits etc. Right down to her underpants. However wearing swimming trunks feels a step to far.. I can't really articulate why.. Dh is on the fence doesn't really feel it's appropriate but probably wouldn't be too bothered. I have told her no, she is a girl and they wear swimming costumes! Now feeling like a right mean mummy as she says she no longer wants to go swimming then! Aibu?

Wow, everything is 'potentially transgender' now. Back in my childhood (not that long ago), it was just about wearing clothes - but of course everything was far less ridiculously dilineated along gender lines.

Your DD could potentially be transgender ... or ... she might just prefer the sorts of clothes that most boys these days typically wear.

Honestly? I would just go with it for now. She is so young. I don't think anyone is going to give her too much of a hard time about swimming trunks - which, by the way, are very common for girls down our way.

I understand your wider concerns about her friendships, and experience at school. I would really keep the communications lines with her open, and chat every day. Ask her questions, but keep it light. Get her think about why she prefers certain things, and what that means as she navigates the social scene at school. Not to persuade/dissuade her any which way, just to help her to see how her own choices might impact on things. Try to find out if she is actually unhappy, or whether she seems to be floating along OK. Talk to her teacher.

Primary school might not be the most amazing experience for her, it that doesn't mean she won't come into her own in secondary school, or whatever she chooses to do after that. As long as home is a rock solid place for her, then she should be just fine.

That didn't mean they got the brand of yogurt they wanted or the fruit juice they wanted.

But presumably they got yogurt rather than something completely different that they hated like cheesecake.

Consistency is so hugely important at this age. She isn't going to understand why Mummy says spider man pyjamas or school trousers instead of a skirt are OK but swimming trunks are not acceptable. To her, this will just seem confusing and unfair.

Your worries about 'what people will think' won't entirely make sense to her but she may well pick up on your embarrassment and, on some level, intuit that being her true self in public is not OK.

I completely understand your concerns about her being isolated or singled out as being 'different' at school. That's really rough to witness as a parent. But one thing I can tell you (based on years of experience working with kids who are often seen as being 'different') is that children do not benefit from being encouraged to suppress their true feelings and preferences in order to 'fit in'. Even if your DD could be persuaded to conform to gender stereotypes to 'fit in' with the girls at school, do you think that would bring her happiness? Those relationships would be shallow, superficial and dependent on your DD having to maintain a level of pretence that would be exhausting and anxiety provoking for her. Children who are viewed as 'different' benefit most from acceptance and understanding. You can't control whether she gets that from her peers but you can make absolutely sure she gets it from you.

I guess what I'm trying to say in my inarticulate, long-winded way is that your DD wearing boys swimming trunks doesn't need to be a big deal. But being expressly forbidden to wear them might be a much bigger deal in the long run, in terms of the impact on her self esteem.

Well yes but there is a big difference between a bit of a tomboy who likes to play boy games, prefers spider man t shirts but inside very much identifies as female and a child who is physically female but is completely male in their head. I used to enjoy playing with boys in the play ground, loved transformer toys and didn't 'get' the girls as much some of the time but I was very much a girl. If she is in essence male then she will already be male, she will have been male since early pregnancy it's just when the chemical released to give her a male body were released something caused a block and she got girl bits. It's not usual for girls to like some things marketed at boys but the fact she doesn't want to wear a swim top is quite unusual. Despite the fact at 5 you have absolutely nothing up top to hide, something in us even at that young age makes us gender aware and we conform to certain dress standards, because in our little heads we had breasts ( even though we didn't) . That she doesn't think about this makes me wonder if there is more to this than just a taste in clothes. If so it will come out in the wash and I'm sure there is lots of available help to allow her to carve her own path.

Why should a small girl cover her chest when small boys don't? Women cover their tops because they have breasts, Small boys and small girls have identical chests, so why the fuck can't they wear the same pants for swimming in?

Bloody ridiculous.

Surfdome.com do great shorts/rash vest combos, I've got some great ones for my daughter. I don't work for them !

Could she wear both? Swimming costume with shorts on top

At 5 I think trunks are actually more appropriate than half the kids bikinis I see in the shops.

Phalenopsisgirl the OPs daughter isn't intersex, she is a girl with a girls brain. There are no such things as "boys games" or "boys clothes", and suggesting that a preference for shorts at age 5 means there is a problem with hormone levels or that somehow her brain is "male" is madness.

Most of Europe young girls don't wear any sort of top when swimming. Nor do a lot of the women. I love going topless when I visit Spain - it's not a sexual thing. Even in the uk where this is far far less common I don't think at 5 anyone would think anything. I would rather see a child in trunks than those baby bikinis!

There is nothing in us that makes us gender aware, it is all down to conditioning.That conditioning starts from the day we are born. Studies have shown people treat baby girls very differently from baby boys.

mudandmayhem01 have you actually read any research on gender identity?!!! It's really really not all down to conditioning!

Stop thinking of it as boy stuff and girl stuff and start just thinking of it as stuff.

Is she really being questioned by the other kids? I work with kids this age and they all wear a variety of different stuff and have different likes and dislikes but nothing as gender stereotypical as your dd's school sounds with all the girls coming out holding hands.

We just have a pile of kids, some are loud, some are quiet etc.

Let her wear trunks and go swimming.

Most likely she is just 5. And likes Spiderman a lot.

But the issues with social friendships and fitting in with girls, together with a big superheroes obsession did makes me think that actually this is more about someone who struggles with the social side and hopes that being a superhero (rather than a boy) would be the answer.

If she really really struggles with the social side of things then there is a chance she has HFA.

But being 5 is still the most likely answer.

I have, its a very polarised area at the moment!

OP much sympathy, I really get why you feel like you do. We are so conditioned into boys and girls stuff now that it's hard to see clothes for what they are... Clothes. My eldest DD who is now ten has preferred boys clothes sinc she was six, transpired more recently that she has sensory issues and finds boys clothes more comfortable and less irritating (which is why she has a pixie haircut!). She feels most definitely a girl and goes to an all girls school, no one has commented on her appearance - in fact the school are hot on inclusivity and diversity.

My DD wears rash vest and board shorts for swimming and a swimming cosie when she does serious swimming. We buy a lot from Lands End and Boden (in the sales or second hand!) as the fabrics are comfy and unfussy. I count my blessings that she us not craving short skirts and heels as some of her peers are starting to 😉

Very true mud they are spoken to in a quieter voice. Add that to the different language used in advertising, the different expectations of behaviour, the way girls behaviour is labelled completely differently to boys behaviour, the images of women that we see all around us, the role the mother and father play in the home, characters in stories and tv etc...

Social conditioning from birth.

Phalenopsisgirl, this idea that liking 'boys' stuff makes you potentially transgender really irritates me. It's just a clothing preference.. Like my son prefers his hair longer, don't know why but he does (although he has said he wants to be like Capt. Jack Sparrow!).

I'm a lecturer in marketing and think marketing has much to answer for in the last 20 years - Google the 1970s/80s Lego ads and compare with the ones now.

Haven't read all the thread yet, but just wanted to say that our DD, who is mostly very stereotypically girly, happily wears her brother's outgrown swimming shorts with a swimming top. When she was younger she would wear a UV top under her swimming costume. You can get plenty of swimming shorts or trunks and UV tops in your DD's size. Really don't see the big deal to be honest, I'd rather my DD wore those than a costume as her skin is better protected from the sun.

Forgot to say DD is now 9.

My daughter has short hair and wears comfortable clothes, she's good at football and maths and is very much a girl. She has underarm hair and is being pressured to shave by her friends, we've talked about sometimes conforming for an easy life but if she chooses to shave it is because she is conforming to the acceptable body image for a girl, not for any other reason. These are all decisions she will have to make because society expects certain things from girls, like no under arm hair and 5 year olds to cover their chests. Neither is rational but we do it to be accepted, it's certainly not our innate girl brains telling us to shave, cover up or like sparkly things.

it's just when the chemical released to give her a male body were released something caused a block and she got girl bits

I take it you didn't study biology or genetics at school?

Phalenopsisgirlthat that is such a load of sexist twaddle.

Gender stereotyping is harmful and we need to let toys be toys and clothes be clothes. My daughter is a girl who likes what she likes, it just happens to differ from what disney and the patriarchy would like her to like.

Enforced gender roles are harmful, mainly to girls. The idea that if you don't conform to an idealised form of femininity then you have to switch to a different biological sex is ridiculous.

We should be campaigning for people to wear what the hell they like and feel comfortable in.

Where's op gone?

A helpful guide to the difference between sex & gender.