Lahore bombing - where is Christian god?

[lulucappuccino]

Ok, I know this is a very clichéd question, but 70+ people, mainly children, brutally murdered at a Christian, Easter celebration.

Families gone. Lives shattered. Unbearable pain.

WHY would god allow this?

Aibu to think this sort of thing proves there is no Christian god. Or if there is, "he's" not a good force?

Unfortunately religion still has a lot of power over us. Bishops sit in the HOL; why? We have an established church. The RCC has issues around child molestation on a massive scale. Where do we even start with Islam?
We have special pleading by the religious when issues such as LGBT rights are discussed. Religion does not affect only the religious!
Yet when we try and discuss it, it's always the same; 'it's a personal issue'. Well, keep it a bloody personal issue then! Because when it starts to affect me, I'm going to challenge it.

I don't understand the relevance of the pic of the cross.

OP, I used to be an atheist. When atrocities such as the one in Lahore happened I didn't think "that is proof that god doesn't exist" because I didn't need proof. My thoughts were along the lines of:

Those poor people.
Is there anything that I can do to help ease the suffering of the victims?
Why did this happen?
What can be done to prevent it happening again?

Now I am a deist and my thoughts have not changed. When I first began to believe in god I had many questions, including Why does god allow bad things to happen? I never did answer that question, but when I examined it I came to the conclusion that, short of the world being a giant soft play type area populated by immortals, what could god do? Pain and death is part of the human condition. Without these things, we would not be human, we would be something else altogether.

and yes you should challenge it where it effects you - but that isn't goading individual Christians you don;t know on the internet

that's not a very effective way of bringing about change

This isn't going to end well.

I'm not goading anyone at all, it's too easy an accusation to make on MN

Funny how other belief systems don't regard a challenge as 'goady', just the religious.

You know what IS goady? Persecuting people for their sexuality, or for wanting an abortion, or wanting to live their life without the risk of becoming a terrorist casualty.

As a victim I do not think that God was punishing me ie that he put me in the path of the bomb. No it was the narrow minded bigots who planned and planted the bomb to hit easy targets. Did I ask why me? Of course I did. Did I ask why did God allow this to happen to me? No because I grew up during the 'troubles' and knew that there was a risk inherent with studying and liviNg in Belfast.
The reason I am posting this is because I have been effected with terrorism, from those who claim to be acting in God's name but I know they aren't and have the scars to prove it.. .but as previously stated I still have my own faith but that's entirely personal to me.

that's not goady that's oppressive - I have stood and been spat on by nuns whilst fighting for abortion rights, I have marched for equality - my mum - a committed Christian, marched with me

You can be both Christian and support human rights - that's not an exclusive atheist right

You are confusing individuals faith and belief with organised religion - and assuming every one of faith agrees with everything organised religion does or says - which is rather simplistic

due to the campaigning of Christians we have women priests and gay priests - female bishops etc

Things do change - maybe not as quickly as you would like - but being blindly angry at everyone of faith doesn't change much - it just makes you angry

It's goady to specifically say there is no 'Christian God' for not stopping an act committed by a Muslim. There have been at least 3 major terror acts committed this week by Muslims, apparently directly for their God, but it's just the Christian version that the OP scorns.

I don't think OP would have stated something in the reverse. Where was Allah when the Columbine shootings took place....no, I don't think that's was ever a likely opening statement.

It's like something written by my 8 year old. Actually I take that back, he can balance an argument.

"What evidence?"

Ah yes, there are no historical records that support anything to do early Christianity at all I did not say it was irrefutable evidence for God. Only an idiot would suggest that. There is no concrete proof. It us called faith, after all. But to accuse Christians of blindly believing in a fairy story is incredibly insulting.

You know, atheists wouldn't have a leg to stand on if Christians just said "I know there's no evidence or proof; I just like something to believe in" or even "I believe in God but I don't think he ever steps in when it comes to human suffering"

I think what grinds my gears most is when they spout on about free will and God not getting involved in stuff like earthquakes and 9-11 and mass shootings etc..... but when it comes to the vicar's wife's arthritis feeling a little better this week (true example) then all of a sudden it's because the congregation prayed for her.

When someone comes through a huge operation it's all praise the Lord rather than thank the hospital staff 🙄

My issue is this: when bad things happen the thought is that God gave humans free choice. I can live with that idea. However, when good things happen people give thanks, and glory, and credit to God. Surely we either have free choice, in which case everything we do and achieve is down to us? Or we don't, in which case everything we do, bad as well as good, is down to God?

Ah yes, there are no historical records that support anything to do early Christianity at all

What a bizarre argument. We know there was such a thing as early Christainity? Doesn't mean that the early Christians were correct though.

due to the campaigning of Christians we have women priests and gay priests - female bishops etc

You're cherry picking. Thanks also to the campaigning of Christians, gay people live in fear of death in huge swathes of the world.

Could someone explain how as a non-believer they understand these events? How do you philosophically understand the evil and suffering? I am not saying there is a neat Christian answer... But would love to understand the compelling argument from the other side.

God gave humans rules to live by - and they are judged by how they stick to them - that's what the Bible says - no where does it says God controls everything and everyone.

In that case ghosty it's a pity he didn't provide one universal set of rules, there seem to be fairly major differences between the versions of the rule book doing the rounds in different parts of the world.

Things do change - maybe not as quickly as you would like - but being blindly angry at everyone of faith doesn't change much - it just makes you angry

This belief in the inevitability of religious enlightenment seems to be a variation of Marxist inevitability thinking. While some religious people are good (and why they are good is a question in itself. Is it for goodness sake or the promise of eternal reward?), religion itself is a force for death and destruction in the world. Blair and Bush used their faith to justify the Iraq war. Islamists would have is all converted or dead.
There is no reason to believe that religious naturally liberalises as time goes by.

Could someone explain how as a non-believer they understand these events? How do you philosophically understand the evil and suffering? I am not saying there is a neat Christian answer... But would love to understand the compelling argument from the other side

By realising that there are complexities in life, that we may never have the answer. It can be frustrating, but at least it's more intellectually satisfying than 'a god did it'.

And if you want people to do really bad shit, tell them they'll spend a eternity in paradise after they've done it.